Kubrow and Kavat Death

[WoefulCaribou]

This is a topic that I figured had already been made, perhaps a long time ago, but when I checked the first 10 pages of the General Feedback section, I could not find any threads about this, so I figured I'd post this up here.

 

Why can Kavats and (presumably) Kubrows die permanently?  I've long questioned the concept of DNA stabilizers (on account of the unnecessary difficulty it adds to having a living companion), but why don't they go into auto-stasis when they get too low?  Ordis, the unresting artificial intelligence that is your ship, will gather the remains of your Kavat or Kubrow and jettison it into space once it's died, so I'm assuming that he understands the difference between life and death.  It begs the question why he wouldn't put them into stasis himself or, if that's an unreasonable thing to ask of him, why you don't just find the rotting corpse of your companion/pet in the middle of your ship one day.

 

That's fluff, though.  There are plenty of actual logical issues with this setup for me, though.

 

A little background, about a month or two ago, I logged on to Warframe to find that cats had been added as a new companion.  I like companions, both sentinels as well as Kubrows, so I decided to use some of my real world money to buy a Kavat.  The kitten was adorable and I loved it, but I also actually wanted to use it in missions, so I matured it and got moving.  A reactor went into it as well as more platinum for fur colors and it was very cool.  The aesthetics were interesting and the differences between the Kavat and my sentinels were a refreshing change of pace.  Flash forward to today when I find that because I had not stabilized it's DNA, it died and was disposed of.

 

So, to sum up.  I paid real money for something and invested an Orokin Reactor into something that ended up disappearing.  At no point was I actually informed that this was a thing (no warning messages about how low it's stabilization was and what repercussions that would have, just that it's health was going to be lower than normal).

 

In contrast, sentinels never change.  Your warframes (despite the fact that in several missions, it's threatened that losing would get your 'frame taken and dismantled/experimented on) do not just disappear.  Your Kavats and Kubrows, however, can die permanently.  Why?  No Kubrow or Kavat is as useful as a Carrier.  I didn't see any combination of mods that would give my Kavat any more damage output than my Helios.  With link-health/shields/armor, I could make it pretty tanky, but aside from having a Smeeta Kavat (built for stealth), if I really needed a tank, I'd play Valkyr, Rhino or just find a team that has a tanky warframe in it.

 

At this point, given how much time Kubrows have been out and the opportunity that the Kavat update represented, I'm assuming that there's some sort of reason for keeping DNA stabilizers a thing, but why give them permadeath when nothing else in the game has that?  There's permadeath threatened in many missions, but your 'frames make it out okay and your companion has Ordis to keep an eye on them.  I'm pretty mad about my Kavat being permadead, but what's most irritating is how little sense this mechanic makes.  In the future, you can bet that I (and other players I know) will not be using Kubrows or Kavats because as is, they're more hassle than they could possibly be worth.  I suppose I'll just stick with my Carrier.

[(PSN)I_AM_FIRED_UP]

You can buy a segment to make the kubrows go auto stassis , isn't it same for kittens?

[Marine027]

There is actualy a auto stasis, the Incubator Upgrade you can get in the Tenno Lab as research. And paying for a Kavat or Kubrow directly i say is peoples own fault, Kavat farming is broken and i not bother with till this is more easier to do, while Kubrow eggs drop like mad now.

Reactors are another thing, but aslong all pets are broken i not bother aswell since i also only use Carrier because this game is farming and grinding, so why should i not use it and might miss a rare mod for example.

[(PSN)I_AM_FIRED_UP]

6 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

There is actualy a auto stasis, the Incubator Upgrade you can get in the Tenno Lab as research. And paying for a Kavat or Kubrow directly i say is peoples own fault, Kavat farming is broken and i not bother with till this is more easier to do, while Kubrow eggs drop like mad now.

Reactors are another thing, but aslong all pets are broken i not bother aswell since i also only use Carrier because this game is farming and grinding, so why should i not use it and might miss a rare mod for example.

Well kavats are good for farming resources.

[Marine027]

Just now, (PS4)I_AM_FIRED_UP said:

Well kavats are good for farming resources.

Only for that you can also use a team with a Hydroid with augment and a Nekros , this Kavats are to glorified with there luck attribute and there crit passive making them sadly the first true P2W aspect in my eyes, while other stuff never was that OP in my eyes if you whould had directly buyed them, on top they are broken as hell still, so i rather wait for them beeing fixed, especialy there faces and for them beeing less a pain to farm.

Besides you can farm normal by jsut doing Dark Sector missions, this ressource farming is a dumb argument on the kavats, the main reason people have no resources is because they rush misisons, and now this kavats are there way out for beeing lazy and even get rewarded with that now. Just my opinion on them overall.

[(PSN)I_AM_FIRED_UP]

5 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

Only for that you can also use a team with a Hydroid with augment and a Nekros , this Kavats are to glorified with there luck attribute and there crit passive making them sadly the first true P2W aspect in my eyes, while other stuff never was that OP in my eyes if you whould had directly buyed them, on top they are broken as hell still, so i rather wait for them beeing fixed, especialy there faces and for them beeing less a pain to farm.

Besides you can farm normal by jsut doing Dark Sector missions, this ressource farming is a dumb argument on the kavats, the main reason people have no resources is because they rush misisons, and now this kavats are there way out for beeing lazy and even get rewarded with that now. Just my opinion on them overall.

Well either you can put work on kavats and they might pay you back (50% chance for a kavat you want) or you can spend real money. They are fine I guess, for me I would farm for them ( I am stingy with my plat) and they will help me in the long run. Well I understand the carrier part, its very useful. Grind to reduce grind.

Edited August 11, 2016 by (PS4)I_AM_FIRED_UP

[Marine027]

Just now, (PS4)I_AM_FIRED_UP said:

Well either you can put work on kavats and they might pay you back (50% chance for a kavat you want) or you can spend real money. They are fine I guess, for me I would farm for them ( I am stingy with my plat) and I they will help me in the long run. Well I understand the carrier part, its very useful. Grind to reduce grind.

Same here, i have nothign against grind, farmed and buidled every frame and weapon in the game so far, except a few event mods and weapons of course, but i guess what turns me of on the kavats is just the whole RNG scanning. And jsut consdiering that the Incubators, which are also a dojo research, drop more often of hyekka masters then you get DNA of wild kavats on the derelict which also makes the research irelevant, while also Kubrow eggs drop like mad now an consdiring one egg on the market is 10 Plat, while Kavata Code is 5 for each code, and oyu need 10 for the incubator and 10 for each Kavat, it jsut feels mocked from DE that way, i understnad of thinking of other ways to get different kind of pets, but this heavy differences feels unnecesary.

[(PSN)I_AM_FIRED_UP]

17 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

Same here, i have nothign against grind, farmed and buidled every frame and weapon in the game so far, except a few event mods and weapons of course, but i guess what turns me of on the kavats is just the whole RNG scanning. And jsut consdiering that the Incubators, which are also a dojo research, drop more often of hyekka masters then you get DNA of wild kavats on the derelict which also makes the research irelevant, while also Kubrow eggs drop like mad now an consdiring one egg on the market is 10 Plat, while Kavata Code is 5 for each code, and oyu need 10 for the incubator and 10 for each Kavat, it jsut feels mocked from DE that way, i understnad of thinking of other ways to get different kind of pets, but this heavy differences feels unnecesary.

Its a plat sink, I didn't give up on ivara and did 150 spy runs for her. This won't make me spend my plat. I hope... Honestly the grind lessens at 1 place and increases at the other.

Edited August 11, 2016 by (PS4)I_AM_FIRED_UP

[WoefulCaribou]

1 hour ago, Marine027 said:

There is actualy a auto stasis, the Incubator Upgrade you can get in the Tenno Lab as research. And paying for a Kavat or Kubrow directly i say is peoples own fault, Kavat farming is broken and i not bother with till this is more easier to do, while Kubrow eggs drop like mad now.

Reactors are another thing, but aslong all pets are broken i not bother aswell since i also only use Carrier because this game is farming and grinding, so why should i not use it and might miss a rare mod for example.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say that paying for a Kavat or Kubrow is people's own fault before talking about how Kavat farming is broken.  I just bought the bundle for Kavats in the market because I had the platinum and didn't feel like grinding for it (I don't have very fond memories of getting my Kubrow eggs before this).

 

As for the upgrade segment, I have to say that I didn't know that was a thing, but that's not too terribly surprising.  I didn't know that permadeath was a thing for Kubrows and Kavats in the first place.  My question is this:  Why do you have to buy an upgrade segment in order to not waste time and resources?

 

I've been playing Warframe since the Hydroid update (so I came in fairly late, I suppose) and there was nothing that prepared me for the idea that something you own can go into such disrepair that it goes away permanently (warframes are never taken from you, sentinels don't require upkeep, weapons don't need repair outside missions and even the one thing that is broken, Ordis, is played off as quirky).

 

My point is that considering the usefulness of sentinels like Carrier and the fact that Kubrows and Kavats (who still have very few mods to themselves) require such upkeep with the possibility of permadeath (unless you get an upgrade segment which isn't much advertised, apparently), what's the incentive for actually using Kavats and Kubrows?  Why would you ever use them instead of Carrier?

[Marine027]

5 minutes ago, Malake_Ha-Mawet said:

 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say that paying for a Kavat or Kubrow is people's own fault before talking about how Kavat farming is broken.  I just bought the bundle for Kavats in the market because I had the platinum and didn't feel like grinding for it (I don't have very fond memories of getting my Kubrow eggs before this).

 

As for the upgrade segment, I have to say that I didn't know that was a thing, but that's not too terribly surprising.  I didn't know that permadeath was a thing for Kubrows and Kavats in the first place.  My question is this:  Why do you have to buy an upgrade segment in order to not waste time and resources?

 

I've been playing Warframe since the Hydroid update (so I came in fairly late, I suppose) and there was nothing that prepared me for the idea that something you own can go into such disrepair that it goes away permanently (warframes are never taken from you, sentinels don't require upkeep, weapons don't need repair outside missions and even the one thing that is broken, Ordis, is played off as quirky).

 

My point is that considering the usefulness of sentinels like Carrier and the fact that Kubrows and Kavats (who still have very few mods to themselves) require such upkeep with the possibility of permadeath (unless you get an upgrade segment which isn't much advertised, apparently), what's the incentive for actually using Kavats and Kubrows?  Why would you ever use them instead of Carrier?

Exatcly what i mean, the Kuborws adn Kavats just seem to have to many downfalls with permadeaths you not know to prevent directly even that the Upgrade exists but nothing directly tells you that aslong you not look into a Dojos lab, and my problem with teh Kavats is just how the game trows you a segment in teh face like mad at times making its research totaly pointless for everyone unlike all other researches and the price itself, having the plat or not is not the problem, i also could buy them but why buy something i can farm sooner or later, the thing is a Kubrow egg costs 10 plat, a Kavat Code 5, 10x5 for the Incubator and again 10 codes for the kavat itself, while with kubrow eggs teh drop rate got so increased apperently it is stupid since you can only pick up one. An iddi have altley in earth missons 1-3 egg drops every time.

My main point is jsut how this all works together, that is my problem, they prices differecne between a kubrow and a kavat, and the damn segment drops which shouldn't be there in the first place since we have the resarch for a reason, no other resarch ahs basicly tow options that way, or 3 counting buying it with plat directly,

But yeah anyway the pet dieing is stupid in the first place and i also not even know if the upgrade works on Kavats. Overall, from what i saw ingame, they are not worth the effort, and i am someone collecting all, useful or not, weapons and frames alike, but the kavats just feels like a painful grind, while everything else happes nearby by playing just trough the game i say without feeling to much forced doing something to often. Just my opinion again, people who use it i not have anything agaisnt but the way it is suppsoed to be gained.

[Chipputer]

1 hour ago, Marine027 said:

this Kavats are to glorified with there luck attribute and there crit passive making them sadly the first true P2W aspect in my eyes, while other stuff never was that OP in my eyes

Irrelevant. None of this has anything to do with the fact that the initial concept of the DNA decay is poorly explained. I had a friend actually quit because he didn't realize his dog could die if he didn't log in and stabilize its DNA every so often-- he spent a few weeks doing Earth runs in his down time to try and get an egg only to lose the entire thing when he had to leave on a work trip for a few weeks and couldn't get to a PC.

Being able to do something like, say, use the DNA left from the corpse to re-create it so you don't lose monetary investment (be it from buying the DNA/Egg or from a reactor), but you don't get the exact same companion in looks or breed, would be preferable to just outright deleting it because, "too bad you weren't aware this would happen and had to do some stuff in real life for a long while."

[Marine027]

1 minute ago, Chipputer said:

Irrelevant. None of this has anything to do with the fact that the initial concept of the DNA decay is poorly explained. I had a friend actually quit because he didn't realize his dog could die if he didn't log in and stabilize its DNA every so often-- he spent a few weeks doing Earth runs in his down time to try and get an egg only to lose the entire thing when he had to leave on a work trip for a few weeks and couldn't get to a PC.

Being able to do something like, say, use the DNA left from the corpse to re-create it so you don't lose monetary investment (be it from buying the DNA/Egg or from a reactor), but you don't get the exact same companion in looks or breed, would be preferable to just outright deleting it because, "too bad you weren't aware this would happen and had to do some stuff in real life for a long while."

If you readed all i gived a answer to the auto stasis already and also in my last post i mentioned how dumb it is there is no info about it or somethign thet tells you about the upgrade sadly, so forgive me not stuffing every info into one post over and over or even forgetting some stuff because i am  also just human.

[WoefulCaribou]

Marine027:  I understand what you're saying and for the most part, if I can grind for something, I do it and if it's too much of a pain, I just ask myself whether or not it's really worth it.  That's why I don't have Ivara.  That grind is just too much for me.  On the other side, though, I did go through the trouble of getting keys for the infested Alad V missions to get Mesa.  The thing with that for me is that I'm big on aesthetics.  I'm fine with a certain amount of grinding for certain things, but what I have and what it looks like is important to me.  That's why I wanted to get a Kavat, because I thought the concept was cool.  I'm irritated because something that you can buy with real money (platinum) can just decay and go away permanently if you don't fulfill certain arbitrary requirements.  That system is total crap.

 

Chipputer:  That story about your friend brings up an interesting point.  A friend of mine got a Kubrow as soon as he possibly could when they came out, but when he found out about the DNA stabilization system, it actually kinda disgusted him.  He doesn't play the game as much as I do, so even just the cost of more stabilizers is a huge pain for him.  Previously, I liked how Warframe, although grindy, let you sort of pick up where you left off if you took a break.  Everything would be about the same when you got back (updates would change the game, but not really alter the stuff you had or your progress with them).  

 

DNA stabilization makes very little sense to me in the first place, but the permadeath for pets, even if you can get an upgrade segment to prevent it (via dojo which requires additional time and effort for something that, let's be honest, should be included in the features of the Kavat/Kubrow segment in the first place), makes no sense whatsoever.