Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[F4talFr4me]

OP, you even look at the numbers? the crippling nerfs? the endless threads of "you ruined nekros" and literally 90% of people agreeing that they ruined there favorite frame?

Thats because *drumroll*  They nerfed an already weak frame, because reasons.

[F4talFr4me]

Wrong. root canal does have many posative sides after the initial pain of the operation and fixes problems. Nekros on the other hand gets a root canal but midway they just stop the drill and rub salt in it 2 times a day to keep the pain coming for no reason. also he never actually needed the root canal. just needed to file tooth down cuz it was slighty sharp.

[(XBOX)GAMEW1ENER]

3 minutes ago, F4talFr4me said:

Wrong. root canal does have many posative sides after the initial pain of the operation and fixes problems. Nekros on the other hand gets a root canal but midway they just stop the drill and rub salt in it 2 times a day to keep the pain coming for no reason. also he never actually needed the root canal. just needed to file tooth down cuz it was slighty sharp.

lol wtf glad i didnt start eating my food yet

[(XBOX)GAMEW1ENER]

ill be making a new thread about nekros since they locked my last one.. . .... . 

[Eldritchsqueaker]

Rants aren't a good way to enact change, I don't like the Nekros changes either, but they're more likely to listen to the people being reasonable and suggesting how to change it. 

[F4talFr4me]

10 minutes ago, Eldritchkitty said:

Rants aren't a good way to enact change, I don't like the Nekros changes either, but they're more likely to listen to the people being reasonable and suggesting how to change it. 

Dident they listen to us before the changes? seems not. as this "rework" wouldent have happened if they did.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

5 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Okay, finally got around to doing all my playtesting and finally have time to write some detailed feedback, so here goes...

Italics denote very big problems.

Desecrate

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Problems Solved

• Frees Nekros's hands to do other things instead of spamming Desecrate for an entire mission. 

Problems Not Solved

• Players outright ignore Nekros's other abilities in favor of Desecrate because of the loot it provides; Strongly favors loot caving over interesting gameplay. 
• Provides nothing of unique value to Nekros's kit when unmodded.
  • Minions cannot use pickups of any kind.
  • Cannot be made useful within Nekros's kit with normal maximization.
    • Requires Despoil and Equilibrium, two mods that are useful solely on Nekros, and are difficult to either obtain or maximize.
      • Creates mod exclusivity problem unique to Nekros; no other Warframe needs a 10 rank mod that is useless on every other Warframe to reach their full potential. 
      • Limits Nekros's build diversity.
      • Combo provides infinite energy, which, while useful, provides nothing uniquely useful to Nekros; every Warframe needs energy.
        • Creates the same problem as Energy Vampire; Energy is inherently supposed to be restrictive, and having it in unlimited quantity on demand not only defeats the purpose of energy but also threatens game balance. 
• RNG dependent; infrequently provides what a player needs at the time of casting.
• Expected to have 100% uptime.

Problems Created

• Complete loss of player control over the ability; can suddenly sap large amounts of health or energy without warning.
• Completely brainless, especially with Despoil + Equilibrium; Just toggle it on in the beginning of the mission, completely bypass the energy economy for the rest of the mission for free. 

 

Shadows of the Dead

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Problems Solved

• Nekros can now heal his Shadows and summon them to his location.
• Strong aggro pull lessens the need for Shield of Shadows; enhances meatshield role of the ability.

Problems Not Solved

• Slowest cast time out of every ability in Warframe; Makes Natural Talent mandatory, compounding Nekros's modding problems.
• No way to direct Shadows; They attack enemies randomly.

Problems Created

• Size and therefore power of army was greatly reduced without any compensation. 
  • Utility Shadows such as Nullifiers or Shield Ospreys come with a sharp reduction to the overall damage potential of the ability. 
• Health drain is objectively worse than duration.
  • Shadows grow progressively weaker for their duration, requiring constant babysitting.
    • Problem compounded massively by combination of aggro pull and reduced army size; Each Shadow takes more damage by default, on top of losing a percentage of their health every second.
• Recasts require the full energy cost of SotD, compounding Nekros's need for an unlimited energy supply. 

Other Unsolved Problems

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• Small energy supply, making Nekros dependent on bypassing the energy economy to function.
• Terrify suffers from the mandatory augment problem; Slow effect makes Terrify better at crowd control, something that the ability already does.
  • Compounds Nekros's modding problems. 
• Low base range on Terrify. 
• Soul Punch is next to useless on its own; causes one enemy to ragdoll unpredictably, while dealing terrible damage and having no AoE capability.

I have to be honest, I'm disappointed with this rework as a whole. I'd be very underwhelmed by Nekros if he was released today. The rework, and the entire Warframe as a whole, feels half baked. You even left the cast animation for Desecrate unchanged, for crying out loud. 

The majority of Warframe reworks in the past were brilliant, but this one falls disappointingly short. It feels like an afterthought. 

Actually from my findings, enemies such as the Scorch from the grineer also damage you. I did a survival on Draco and noticed there were no enemies and suddenly my shields and health conversion started ticking. This could just be a bug. You addressed all the right problems. He takes way too many mods to make his gameplay viable instead of enhancing it. Decay on sotd was one of their worst ideas though. 

[Kidkilla]

8 hours ago, F4talFr4me said:

Balance is when you take 1 thing and compensate to another (on a weak frame like nekros), what DE did was ruin 1 boring but very usefull skill(the only skill nekros was used for because everything else he had sucked) and then totally ruined SoTD (which was crap to begin with due to bad AI).

What compensation did we recieve? nothing but silence.

There's no disagreement that Nekros now is different from Nekros 2 weeks ago but much like I said, I don't have an issue with the rework, because as with every rework, I find a way around it. As for the silence, the fact that this thread is live and we're encouraged to post on it by DE therefore consolidating all feedback puts paid to that statement - why haven't they responded? It's only been a week and a half. Why rush and make adjustments without a full play test based on what is still limited feedback?

remember that every adjustment to the game costs money and time. Makes sense to have a longer trial period before readjusting and package that with another update.

[F4talFr4me]

They dont have that luxary with nekros prime around the corner. id thought they would at least make nekros simply "turn desecrate into toggle. lower the energy cost" and be done with it... not ruin 2 skills people only ever use!. i never used SoTD because they never "work", they run off and let me die. now i can summon them back to me every 5 seconds because it dont change the fact they still dumb as horsepoop AND now they die fast over time because reasons.

Also i dont own Shield mod for the undead mob. so i cant even take a hit. desecrate ruins my energy becuase i dont have Despoil. Nekros is much worse now. useless without augments.

[GrimAtrament]

1 hour ago, F4talFr4me said:

OP, you even look at the numbers? the crippling nerfs? the endless threads of "you ruined nekros" and literally 90% of people agreeing that they ruined there favorite frame?

Thats because *drumroll*  They nerfed an already weak frame, because reasons.

nah new nekyros is fine also its hardly 90% the forum is hardly everyone playing the game most people just play the game iv seen so meny nekyros in my games now 

[F4talFr4me]

Just now, hazerddex said:

nah new nekyros is fine also its hardly 90% the forum is hardly everyone playing the game most people just play the game iv seen so meny nekyros in my games now 

many ex-nekros fans testing out the rework only to be disappointes. yes.

[GrimAtrament]

1 minute ago, F4talFr4me said:

many ex-nekros fans testing out the rework only to be disappointes. yes.

and meny nekros fans to test out the rework to be happy dont speak for me or other hush they have there own voice let them use it 

[F4talFr4me]

Only people happy with this think its just a straight toggle without any hard loot/mechanics nerfed.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

28 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

and meny nekros fans to test out the rework to be happy dont speak for me or other hush they have there own voice let them use it 

You can't say he's fine without saying why, plenty of people have been giving ample reason why the rework was poorly done. Your post just seems pointless.

[GrimAtrament]

Just now, Eldritchkitty said:

You can't say he's fine without saying why, plenty of people have been giving ample reason why the rework was poorly done. Your post just seems pointless.

so does f4talFr4me i just dont like it when people presume to be the voice of a community 

[(PSN)salovel1991]

1 hour ago, F4talFr4me said:

They dont have that luxary with nekros prime around the corner. id thought they would at least make nekros simply "turn desecrate into toggle. lower the energy cost" and be done with it... not ruin 2 skills people only ever use!. i never used SoTD because they never "work", they run off and let me die. now i can summon them back to me every 5 seconds because it dont change the fact they still dumb as horsepoop AND now they die fast over time because reasons.

Also i dont own Shield mod for the undead mob. so i cant even take a hit. desecrate ruins my energy becuase i dont have Despoil. Nekros is much worse now. useless without augments.

Yes. Nekros has too many gimmick mods that he needs in order to sustain himself. No other frame has as many issues as him. Our hands are being forced. Which means for newer players they're more likely to look at him and go energy costs are through the roof and put him aside. 

[(PSN)salovel1991]

8 hours ago, (PS4)ChiefsFury1984 said:

1st off really enjoying the new update Graphics upgrades & Star Chart look Fabulous. 

While I have along ways to go in getting the New Stuff Checked out I did encounter 1 minor glitch hopefully it can be fixed asap.

 

If you go to the Kudrow Imprints when it's showing the dog it has a huge glitch under his chin & other parts of his body this is with all Imprints not just 1 Kubrow..

 

That said I know this will get fixed like the lighting of kubrows Imprints has been fixed the u...

 

Now on to Nekros 

 

I've been running him & honestly I'm not seeing what all the fuss is about with Descarte

 

To me either people are not using him right or are trying to be speedy Reynolds or are just complaining to complain 

I ran multiple games with him yesterday & while his drop rate for additional loot was nerfed 36% it's not as bad as others have made it out to be..

 

It's also not as exstream as you go with some warframes Valkery Rhino cough cough & more so it could have been worse 

 

Anyway I ran With Slash Weapons like the Trigis Garkata & more 

 

Well slashing bodies into mutiple parts makes getting extra resources easy people that are complaining are clearly not using slash weapons & if they are then maybe not the right one.

 

Try using the garkatas & Trigis weapons slash em into bout 3 to 4 pieces & watch the loot appear 

 

Yeah it does not always give loot but when it does it's clearly a lot more then b4 & I'm not even using boosters & have seen an increase in loot since the health orbs drops were reduced 

 

So when using Nekros use slash weapons for better results that's what Nekros power is ment to be for using non slash weapons will generate a lot less loot so if your farming make sure u bring slash weapons it has always been this way use him right & you will see the difference finally DE made how it should be.. slashing has always granted more loot so if u plan to farm take slash weapons & cut em up!

 

And as for shadow's I can agree & see the same issues with what there saying the health decay thing sucks slowing down the health decay would go along ways to solving this issue.. maybe it's my build I'll test more when I get Nekros prime & try to report back on shadows 

 

But I'm actually enjoying Nekros more then ever now it's 1 of the better reworks out there for once I'm not a sitting duck 4 chicken bards & corner camping napalms & sorches being able to move while descrating was something I had been wanting 4 a long time as Nekros has always been one of my top 3 frames.

 

Finally being able to move on the fly & being able to survive easier now may get me back in to using him a lot more..

 

So Once again Thank You for these wonderful changes & making Nekros fun again until next time have a great day....

Grakata is an impact weapon.. 

Twin grakata- 8 impact, 6.7 puncture, and 5.3 slash. 

Edited August 17, 2016 by (PS4)salovel1991

[Eldritchsqueaker]

31 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

so does f4talFr4me i just dont like it when people presume to be the voice of a community 

And I've pointed that out before in other threads too. It's just unconstructive talk.

[Teshin_Dax]

I thought a lot about his skill-set .. and must say.. there is more potential for "Soul Punch"..

My idea:

Every enemy which got hit by sould Punch or the "Soul punched enemy" leaves "sould shards"..

What "Soul Shards" could do:

-They could heal SotD-allies by 3-5 percent per shard (scaleable with powerstrength)

-They could also be collected and could stack until an ammount of 5 "Soul Shards"

-> each Soul Shard would gain "terrify" an additional power range Bonus (5 meter per shard - deplete all on cast)

-> or could also be used for "desecrate" - each "Soul shard" would gain +3% Loot per Shard for 15-30 seconds

 

Soul Punch + Terrify:
Terrified enemies which got hit by Soul Punch will trigger the "Wave of Fear"-effect.
->"Wave of Fear" - Enemies get "freezed" in fear .. that means every enemy in a specific range (power range affected) (affected by Terrify) 
is not able to move or attack for 5-10 seconds (maybe affected by power duration)  [each enemy affected has a 30% Chance to drop a Soul Shard]
..however - other enemies in range will receive the terrifying effect with the remaining Duration.

 

Wave of Fear + Soulpunch:

Enemies which got hit by "Soul Punch" and were affected by "`Wave of Fear" will trigger a "Attackspeed-buff" - that means SotD-allies
will attack (or more firerate) faster  by ~25% (scaleable with power strength) - using their fear to gain more power

 

This would fit nekros theme perfectly .. and would make sense..because he grabs/touches their souls.. i guess

 

 

Edited August 18, 2016 by WaRsHooTer666

[Zerathos_Dagon]

Sorry man, but i'd have to agree with most other people here, op. Some people may like the toggled passive, others (like me) may not like it at all. But here are the facts: Nekros' energy/health economy is a lot worse, the loot he produces is much less, his Shadows of the Dead are less numerous, and those are just a few of the things that were nerfed. Why did DE do that? Because grind needs to get worse? Because the 'rework' wasn't thought out all too well? Because they hate Nekros? Because it was an honest mistake? Only DE will ever know that for sure. But what is for sure though, is that Nekros recieved some hefty and unnecessary nerfs.

In short, you may be one of the few who is able to work with a much weaker frame and find fun in it, but that doesn't take away that Nekros is now in a bad state and didn't need to be. They made a boring but above average frame into a bad and underpowered frame, there's just no going around that.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Zerathos_Dagon

[Azrael]

Sounds great. The only problem is that this would end up being another augment, and nekros just can't handle any more augments or specialized mods. If this can be baked into the ability then I'm all for it.

[Teshin_Dax]

3 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Sounds great. The only problem is that this would end up being another augment, and nekros just can't handle any more augments or specialized mods. If this can be baked into the ability then I'm all for it.

yeah .. it should be an ability effect ..  Theres even not enough  space for all of his Augments now ...(for a good build)

Edited August 17, 2016 by WaRsHooTer666

[OzoneSlayer]

8 hours ago, (PS4)ChiefsFury1984 said:

It's Cuz that's his thing that works best..

 

 

Can't spell slash without ash

 

In all seriousness, I think the changes are fine, but could have been much better

[_Azeizel]

Doesn't seem like something I'd like to see ingame, but I DO see the use of this. Upvoted <3

[cookieknife]

54 minutes ago, WaRsHooTer666 said:

I thought a lot about his skill-set .. and must say.. there is more potential for "Soul Punch"..

My idea:

Every enemy which got hit by sould Punch or the "Soul punched enemy" leaves "sould shards"..

What "Soul Shards" could do:

-They could heal SotD-allies by 3-5 percent per shard (scaleable with powerstrength)

-They could also be collected and could stack until an ammount of 5 "Soul Shards"

-> each Soul Shard would gain "terrify" an additional power range Bonus (5 meter per shard - deplete all on cast)

-> or could also be used for "desecrate" - each "Soul shard" would gain +3% Loot per Shard for 15-30 seconds

 

This would fit nekros theme perfectly .. and would make sense..because he grabs/touches their souls.. i guess

 

 

instead of shards, why not just those floating soul looking wisps we have animations for but don't do anything? (after you cast soul punch )