Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[Guest]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

173 or 73? Cause i find it hard to believe that you were able to substain shadows, leftalone regular terrify use without constant desecrate spam

I only casted twice for max energy pool... Somehow. More health orbs?

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

And ...like the criteria for Max damage Migration was any lower before?!

Yes. Pre rework I can still maintain 90% with 15 shadows alive. Post rework my reduction decreases by 1/7 per shadow dead.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Guest

[(PSN)salovel1991]

19 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Point is that he ranks among these now? Are they Bad?! Is he as Bad as you point him to be when he is indeed in the Position to rank among them?!? And again. None of these give even the tiniest bit extra loot performing the same.

He does not rank among these. Lol. I've played every single one of these frames for at least 20 hours each. I've tried to love this frame but as it stands he requires despoil, equilibrium, health conversion and shield of shadows. That requires maxing a syndicate, getting 50k standing in said syndicate, grinding a boss for a bad chance, maxing mod to rank 10, and grinding another syndicate for 100k standing. On top of needing duration to sustain shadows. Which means you go narrow minded and take a hit to range or need p. continuity. Also 7 shadows to spread damage across is pretty bad. Intensify alone makes the shadows take 1.8 more damage alone, which their health and damage multipliers were not changed to compensate for lower numbers. 

[Matt89Connor]

3 hours ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

I don't run power strength. Lol it's next to useless. 200 power strength means shadows take 2x damage from shield of shadows :D on top of health decay so it basically means they die the same regardless. 

yes i prefer duration instead power strenght, they remain alive for more time

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

3 hours ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

-snip- 

Frames require builds, wtf DE

[(PSN)salovel1991]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Frames require builds, wtf DE

You clearly misinterpreted what I wrote. Yes every single frame requires a build. I've played this game 1600 hours I think I would have the comprehensive capabilities to understand that by now. But rather than counter anything you say I'll leave it at that. I'm not going to ruin my day arguing. 

[Gurpgork]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Frames require builds, wtf DE

Builds that for the overwhelming majority of Warframes require mostly Corrupted mods, not a bunch of augments and freaking Equilibrium. 

[Eldritchsqueaker]

1 hour ago, Matt89Connor said:

yes i prefer duration instead power strenght, they remain alive for more time

Only problem is that makes Nekros squishier in comparison.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

51 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Frames require builds, wtf DE

Not such outlandish, expensive and min-maxed builds. If they're actually, yanno, built well.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

22 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

-snip-

They made something that works well with different Mods, how dare they.

Edited August 19, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108
HOW DARE THEY

[(PSN)salovel1991]

20 minutes ago, Eldritchkitty said:

Only problem is that makes Nekros squishier in comparison.

Yeah but even if you achieve the max damage reduction on Shield of shadows it means you're only punishing your shadows even more. With 200 power strength each shadow takes twice as much damage. Which is why I run health conversion and shield of shadows. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

They made something that works well with different Mods, how dare they.

Hasn't their entire stance been that they want people to be able to use a frame's entire move set?  Isn't that the entire reason they changed several frame skills and even did away with powers being stand alone mods in the first place?

[(XBOX)His 1st Shadow]

I'm forced to reveal the truth since no one is discussing Nekros. /s

 

Its simple, give the Health Decay on his 4th a Grace Period before it begins. If our old duration was 30 seconds, then the new health decay should only start after a 20 -25 second grace period. This grace period will scale with duration. (Also Increasing the decay rate to equal same duration) This gives it parity with the old duration, And all we'd need is an icon that indicates that health decay has begun. We can then consistently and reliable recast after a 25 second grace instead of randomly & prematurely casting to prevent shadows from dying.

The shadows would still die at the same duration but it will allow us to have 7 shadows at full health for most of our duration. 

 

This allows DE to keep health decay while ensuring shadows aren't living forever without a cost. Players aren't forced to overspend energy for fewer and lower health shadows yet still benefit from the recent QoL improvements. 

 

Win/Win

 

Edited August 19, 2016 by (XB1)His 1st Shadow

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

They made something that works well with different Mods, how dare they.

*facepalm*

I don't think builds and mods really matter here. Leave those to the players helping players threads.

The thing is, with desecrate having a massive drain (which should have been drain per second instead of drain per corpse) and a health drain for SotD, Nekros has been harder to sustain for almost everyone. Without a very specific build, it's very difficult to even use all four of his abilities. 

[Omega-Shadowblade]

25-30 seconds seems like a pretty large grace period especially in this game

[Eldritchsqueaker]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

Yeah but even if you achieve the max damage reduction on Shield of shadows it means you're only punishing your shadows even more. With 200 power strength each shadow takes twice as much damage. Which is why I run health conversion and shield of shadows. 

Health conversion is hard to get, the sheer amount of hard to acquire mods that are practically required on Nekros is rediculous

 

[(XBOX)His 1st Shadow]

1 minute ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

25-30 seconds seems like a pretty large grace period especially in this game

How so? We had 20 shadows at full health for the entire duration before. And that wasn't OP.

So allowing a limit of 7 shadows to have full health for only ~80% of the duration from before is rather fair honestly.

 

Keep in mind, the grace period doesn't increase the duration. If they currently die in 30 seconds they'd still die in 30 seconds. Not sure why you feel it's pretty large?

[Omega-Shadowblade]

It technically would increase the duration indirectly. We don't have duration abilities that have 20 base seconds (before even decay is accounted) it just seems very arbitrary, especially since we can't actually test ourselves how such a large grace would affect it.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

To be honest I still don't see a point in having health decay at all.

[Gurpgork]

58 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

They made something that works well with different Mods, how dare they.

If Nekros became absolutely devastating when equipped with mods that literally no other Warframe uses, that would be a reasonable tradeoff. If it were common for Warframes to use ten rank mods that most or all other Warframes didn't use, that would be perfectly okay. But neither of those things are true, which makes this case simply unacceptable. 

Edited August 19, 2016 by Gurpgork

[(PSN)haffmo]

Power strength effects terrify. A key to crowd control. Duration isnt important except sotd.

[(XBOX)His 1st Shadow]

1 minute ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

It technically would increase the duration indirectly. We don't have duration abilities that have 20 base seconds (before even decay is accounted) it just seems very arbitrary, especially since we can't actually test ourselves how such a large grace would affect it.

The grace period could be 50, 60, 70 or 80% of the ability duration but we do know the exact duration.

The grace period means that the health decay isn't active. It wouldn't make them invulnerable. They still have normal health and can be killed by usual means. 

 

But after the grace period ends the health decay begins. The health decay would be scaled to deplete their health according to when they should expire. IE if the duration is 30 seconds and the grace period is 25, then it would take health decay 5 seconds to kill the shadows. Of course if they've taken a ton of damage they'd die earlier from health decay after its begun. But that wouldn't increase it.

 

Perhaps that clears it up a bit. I didn't understand the ability comparison nor the technically indirect increase. 

[Omega-Shadowblade]

The indirect increase is due to the multiplied health and shields with the possible armor amounts compared to enemy damage outputs. Simply put damage absorbed  by your shadows might as well be negligible in some cases when tanks are involved. A bursa for example might benefit extremely due to it being invincible from the front and its extreme armored health and shields. You ever see normal enemies take down a regular bursa ally?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

20 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

 unacceptable. 

Something that uses a unique and entirely different base, which is at the same time relatively easy to obtain and to build, can not be balanced but has to be gamebreaking to work out for you? Carry on. 

Edited August 19, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Gurpgork]

I'm going to dump a bunch of proposed changes here.

General Changes

Spoiler

• Base energy increased to 150.
• Base armor increased to 125.
• Passive: Now restores 15 health and additionally restores 5 energy.

Soul Punch

Spoiler

• Deals Finisher damage based on the target's missing HP.

Terrify

Spoiler

• Now applies a 50% slow (Creeping Terrify replaced or removed).

Desecrate

Spoiler

• No longer provides loot.
  • Instead, Desecrated corpses explode, dealing Gas damage with a guaranteed proc.
    • Explosion chance is 100%.
    • Explosion damage scales with Strength mods, while radius increases with Range mods.
  • Health orb chance increased to 60-80%. 

Shadows of the Dead

Spoiler

• Damage multiplier increased to 5.
• Health multiplier increased to 4.
• Recasting summons Shadows to Nekros's location, regardless of distance.
• Changed back to a Duration ability.
  • Recasting refreshes the duration. 
• Recasting cost proportionate to the total amount healed and/or number of resummoned Shadows. 

I think these are overall pretty conservative changes that would improve Nekros's gameplay quite substantially. So, thoughts?

[(XBOX)His 1st Shadow]

16 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

The indirect increase is due to the multiplied health and shields with the possible armor amounts compared to enemy damage outputs. Simply put damage absorbed  by your shadows might as well be negligible in some cases when tanks are involved. A bursa for example might benefit extremely due to it being invincible from the front and its extreme armored health and shields. You ever see normal enemies take down a regular bursa ally?

But how would that increase duration, due to a grace period? They would still die in 30 seconds or less.

 

39 minutes ago, Eldritchkitty said:

To be honest I still don't see a point in having health decay at all.

Id love for the health decay to be gone all together while still recasting and teleporting shadows.

But I'm not sure if they will do it or anything unless they give response. And if they keep it, I'd much rather a grace period. That way recasting is purely for relocating and responding to the decay icon appearing.

 

I for one am tired of aiming at shadows to check their health.