Forum Elitism

[Notso]

I've got you topped. According to Chaos Theory my very conception was so sick-nasty that my Mother's womb released a bizarre trans-dimensional 'Radical' radiation. 

 

 This radiation was so gnarly that Wolfenstein 3D was created simultaneously in every possible Universe - ushering in peace and prosperity through Videogames for wicked cool types in the multiverse. Scientists speculate that across all time and space radical dudes everywhere shed a single tear of pure machismo over the event.

God-damn it Blatant, you got me reading interesting articles on Chaos Theory when I should be revising other topics in mathematics for my exam :T

[Eversor]

Call me whatever you want, elitist, pro ... whatever , i dont care. Game is still easy as fck once you get proper gear. I never called anyone noob, never said learn to play and will never do. Mostly when im one of those "weird ones" who cares about new players , one of those who spread the beauty of this game and ultimately one of those who never cared about my e-penis. Im only a martial one, my only challenge is to defeat myself. Im too old to care about social prestige, i leave it to kids.

 

With that said, I understand your point, but it changes nothing, people with proper gear will still see the game as a cakewalk... and this is dangerous for DE, this people will get bored eventually if a challenge for them is not implemented and will leave.

 

I think, in the end, we are talking about two types of players, and every game should aim to satisfy both.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Eversor

[Rhorge]

Game is still easy as fck once you get proper gear.

Exactly. Once you get the really good gear the game looses a lot of appeal. The last thing needed is making it easier because people without the good gear are having a hard time.

 

The game needs a very clear split from endgame so that new players aren't constantly staring at missions they can't do but well geared players can attempt a new level of challenges that are impossible without top notch loadouts or a well organised team.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Rhorge

[Sammy001]

 

The game needs a very clear split from endgame so that new players aren't constantly staring at missions they can't do but well geared players can attempt a new level of challenges that are impossible without top notch loadouts or a well organised team.

 

yup, difficulty slider, checking how many people are in the mission, that sort of thing... .

[Madotsuki]

Call me whatever you want, elitist, pro ... whatever , i dont care. Game is still easy as fck once you get proper gear. I never called anyone noob, never said learn to play and will never do. Mostly when im one of those "weird ones" who cares about new players , one of those who spread the beauty of this game and ultimately one of those who never cared about my e-penis. Im only a martial one, my only challenge is to defeat myself. Im too old to care about social prestige, i leave it to kids.

 

With that said, I understand your point, but it changes nothing, people with proper gear will still see the game as a cakewalk... and this is dangerous for DE, this people will get bored eventually if a challenge for them is not implemented and will leave.

 

I think, in the end, we are talking about two types of players, and every game should aim to satisfy both.

You are definately not an elitist, at least in my definition. And I do have to agree, when it comes to the progression system, Warframe is more an rpg than an actual shooter, since the progression is kinda 75% gear, 25% skill. I mean, when you spent enough time to max every mod, potatoed and polarized your top tier gear, you practically don't even have to try in order to solo Pluto. Hell, even with the currend endless defense end-game, with a few master race frames (Frost, Nyx, Saryn, Vauban) and top-end gear even level 80+ waves isn't that hard. Gear > Skill. And that's a horrible thing for a game about space ninjas.

[Quetzhal]

Could the older players stand to be less condescending? Yes. But newer players need to understand progression in this game is not an overnight thing. You are EXPECTED to spend weeks or even months grinding up those rank 10 mods. You are EXPECTED to wait 3 days to collect a crafted frame because it sure wont kill you to play the frame you are ON for another 3 days. Its not going to kill you to farm another 5k ferrite, but the fact it takes time and effort and its "boring" also means you will actually put some thought into what you want to craft next rather than just "CRAFT ALL TEH WEAPONS!" most of what I see new players asking for are just shortcuts to get an easy way out of putting in effort and playing the game.

I doubt most players actually expect to progress to endgame overnight. Yes, you are expected to spend months for the rank ten mods and you need to wait three days for your new Warframe to be built - but are there better ways to enforce this? Ways that don't give new players the wrong impression of the game? Ways that make the average player feel like they're still progressing, like they're that much closer to the next step, even without actually changing anything? If something upsets a player, there's a good chance that there's something to it, even if the thing they're upset about isn't necessarily the same thing that needs to be fixed.

Some of it comes down to presentation, not the actual mechanic. The last three levels of Serration would probably be more comfortable for people if seven ranks were obtained normally, and the last three were just "bonus" ranks you have to put ridiculous numbers of fusion cores into. It's a purely cosmetic change, but it changes the feeling from "it's going to take me forever just to max out one little mod!" to "cool, I get to overclock this mod with some effort!"

In other words, it's a cosmetic change that makes it feel like the game is letting you push past its boundaries, rather than putting the boundaries a little too high for the average player to reach in (what they feel is) a reasonable amount of time. That's just an example, but you get the idea.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Quetzhal

[dEEkAy2k9]

I totally understand what you (the OP) are talking about.

 

A few days (maybe a week) ago, i opened up a suggestion thread, it was about the ingame stats of weapons such as crit, damage, dps, attackspeed etc (counting in stuff altered by mods). The first posts i got were "there's a wiki for that" "you shouldn't know everything" "find it out yourselve".

 

For me those facts are basic stuff. Stuff "like how much crit chance does my weapon have, is there any other weapon with higher crit chance" and all that available INGAME, not on some community driven wikis where half ot the stats are just guessed or estimated by some strange tests.

[Troublechutor]

ITT: Thin skins banding together to stop mean internet speak.

 

Suggestion : Ignore trolls and "elitists".

 

Advantages : Serenity, normal blood pressure, develop a skill that builds upon itself allowing you to spot/ingore trolls in the future.

 

Disadvantages : After about a month, you will know everything there is to know about the game and will start trolling new players who are asking the same questions and generally cluttering up the forums with "how do I wall run?" kind of questions because you've run out of patience with "newb Q&A".

 

I see this all the time as I go from game to game.  The DOTA forums are rife with this as that game is almost 10 years old with some players being there for the whole time.  As a game matures, the game play starts to distill down to it's elements and there become clear paths through the content that are simply better than others.  New players don't have the refined knowlege of the game, its nuances, or the raw experience to make informed comments about it.  (Hell, some players have different anecdotal experience leading them to believe wrong things about the game in general)  The wiki's are a good place to start, but they can be wrong too.

 

I think it's just human nature that after you've learned to run after having walked and before that crawled, you tend to get frustrated by the crawlers trying to figure out how balance works and filling up thread after thread with complaints and questions about walkers and their hax.  

 

The best solution is for the runners to stay out of the threads made by crawlers and let the walkers fend for themselves.  I think every forum should have an "advanced play" section to help segregate out the players so that the elitists have a safe area to go and discuss the game as they see it while the majority of up-&-commers can fill up the forum with their own threads.

 

For the record, this game has so much hidden knowlege and bad wiki content that daily trips to the forums are almost a requirement.  I've asked my newb questions and gotten helpful responses from good players.  I don't see the problem that the OP sees.  Maybe I just have a better troll filter?

Edited June 24, 2013 by Troublechutor

[Alohoe]

Seems you're fairly new here, so I'm not quite sure you grasp the scope of how these forums flow. Generally speaking, somewhere someone has posted a particular topic that may or may not pertain to most new (or uneducated) player questions, with the exception of perhaps a rudimentary set of tutorials being necessary in the near future (Foundry, mod fusion, etc).

 

If what you're complaining about are responses to complaints about the current defense alert 'event', then all it really boils down to is that new players starting out will probably not make it to a 20th wave of any defense. Much like those who start a game at the end of a special event, chances are you just didn't make it soon enough to participate, but by no means does an event need to cater to all levels of all players at any point. New players should not be attempting end game level content and expecting to succeed with relative ease, this we all know.

 

And perhaps some people make rude comments, but that is more who they are and does not constitute elitism on some grand scale.

This^  Also, the forums are for all warframe players, elitists included.  They have a right to have their opinions just like everyone else.

[WhisperByte]

This^  Also, the forums are for all warframe players, elitists included.  They have a right to have their opinions just like everyone else.

They don't, however, have the right to insult other players for their opinions

[xenapan]

Wrong, and I think that's the problem :). Nothing that can be helped though.

Umm everyone started with the same standard set of equip (unless you were a founder with extras) but you still started with rank 0 weapons and rank 0 frame(s) and I can tell you as a free player who has spent money on nothing but 2 extra warframe slots ($5 bucks) zero plat bought frames/weapons, its entirely doable. Im rank 9 now. 0 affinity boosters. Play and you will progress. Simple as that

I doubt most players actually expect to progress to endgame overnight. Yes, you are expected to spend months for the rank ten mods and you need to wait three days for your new Warframe to be built - but are there better ways to enforce this? Ways that don't give new players the wrong impression of the game? Ways that make the average player feel like they're still progressing, like they're that much closer to the next step, even without actually changing anything? If something upsets a player, there's a good chance that there's something to it, even if the thing they're upset about isn't necessarily the same thing that needs to be fixed.

Some of it comes down to presentation, not the actual mechanic. The last three levels of Serration would probably be more comfortable for people if seven ranks were obtained normally, and the last three were just "bonus" ranks you have to put ridiculous numbers of fusion cores into. It's a purely cosmetic change, but it changes the feeling from "it's going to take me forever just to max out one little mod!" to "cool, I get to overclock this mod with some effort!"

In other words, it's a cosmetic change that makes it feel like the game is letting you push past its boundaries, rather than putting the boundaries a little too high for the average player to reach in (what they feel is) a reasonable amount of time. That's just an example, but you get the idea.

Double the size of the rank bars on the side of those 10 rank mods and make all mods have 3/5 bars universally. Except for those 10 rank mods which never show the last ranks but it changes color from white to red? :p would be interesting. Partially I agree, they could definitely change some things to make the UI better for players and solve some of the presentation issues though I would really like them to go back toward the old mod system and instead of dropping mods at a set rarity, let the rarity determine the power. E.g. you could get a common/uncommon/rare damage mod. They would be mutually exclusive but the common one would max out faster, have a lower base - eg 3 ranks instead of 5, the uncommon 5 ranks, and the rare 10 ranks. And of course, when merging they would count as the "same" mod (100% exp to the different rarities) Not all mods would require all 3 rarities, and the rarer mods would only have 2 rarities and they could put currently rare mods to go between rare and ultra rare versions which would say.. add a 6th rank to it, and would give them a reason to buff some of the weaker mods right now (eg ammo cap for shotguns, the crit damage/rate mods, some of the reload mods) that are practically worthless on most of the weapons other than maybe 1 or two (depending on the mod) and would also help balance out existing mods a little more as well as give an increased feeling of progression as players can pick up e.g. the common version of serration/hornet strike, max it out, and have a fairly decent boost to damage on a cheaper/easier to fuse into version but it maxes out faster, but when they find the uncommon version they can just keep working on it by fusing the common into the uncommon (with some xp loss)

[fatpig84]

Wait waht ?

[zorinho20]

I think this forum is pretty timid in comparison to others.

And Iike that.

[Phoenix86]

I think this forum is pretty timid in comparison to others.

And Iike that.

 

yup... this one is still 'good' trust us, lol

[Greene]

I suggest you don't leave Mercury noob.

That was an unnecessary post.

If it was sarcasm, it was not needed in this thread and if it wasn't, go troll somewhere else.

[WFOE]

I actually don't see much elitism on these forums.

 

If you feel someone expressing their opinion against yours and presenting compelling arguments is elitist, then you probably shouldn't browse any forums in general. I'm also surprised at the little amount of trolling that occurs here. I'd say these forums are still fairly solid.

[Zhero8232]

I'm starting to lose faith in the forum population's ability to understand that other people might not have the skill, gear, money, or time that they do.

 

 

If you do not put anything into the game, you are not likely to get much out of it. Skill will take you only so far, after that you will need either time or money to advance.

[Alohoe]

They don't, however, have the right to insult other players for their opinions

There is insulting and there is telling people what they do not want to hear.  Insult is "your mom dresses you funny."  What people dont want to hear is "Stop complaining and grind harder." or " buy some plat. everyone can afford five dollars"  The latter are opinions, not insults.  If people are insulted by the latter type of comments, than it is my opinion they need to get some thick skin or stay off of game forums altogether.

[Gigatron-Prime]

I prefer elitism. I like the dividing line between those that are lesser, just like the line between the poor and the rich. 

[Blatantfool]

I prefer elitism. I like the dividing line between those that are lesser, just like the line between the poor and the rich. 

 

 If you say so buddy. I don't know how you put up with being walked all over though.

[TunaMayo]

I prefer elitism. I like the dividing line between those that are lesser, just like the line between the poor and the rich.

Enjoying the view down there with your disciple badge? You peasant.

[Notso]

Enjoying the view down there with your disciple badge? You peasant.

 

I laughed

[Gigatron-Prime]

Having a tier or a class of people gives a meaning and a worth to all the hard work that gets you there. My position in life is nowhere near the top, but once I get there, I want to have the view and the privelage that my hard work has afforded me. That includes scoffing at those I stepped over. There can be no upper class without a lower class.

[DarkFireRogue]

Can you please define elitist in the context of forum posting?

[continue]

i really like these posts telling people how they should or shouldn't respond to said "elitism"

its almost like theyre the same people or something