*REAL* Scythes

[Inarticulate]

5 hours ago, Knightofthedawn said:

Well,all I am gonna say about this:We already have some pretty weird weapons that are inaccurate when it comes to actual weapons so who cares about having an inaccurate scythe in the game.

Inaccurate weapons in the game, sure. Impractical, not so much.

All of the melee weapons in Warframe have blades where you would expect blades and pointy tips where you would expect pointy tips (though I do have to question the decision to put a backwards-facing blade on the Sarpa that clearly exists just to slit your own wrists).

A two-handed scythe has a blade facing the wrong way and a pointy tip facing the wrong way.

As I previously mentioned, the Kaszas, which is the only two-handed scythe in the game, at the very least has a blade edge where the scythe tip normally would be, which allows the weapon to at least be used as an axe (one with a very favorably located center of mass at that).

[(XBOX)RVN World News]

I wouldn't mind some better looking scythes. Also I feel like playing ninja gaiden after seeing that pic. 

[LunarEdge7]

I like how the first page has people talking about realism of scythes in a game. Maybe that's because of the thread title. Damn.

I can still imagine long scythes like this being implemented. We ALREADY have the monstrosity that is War. A very long weapon.

The idle animations of the scythes will be holding them upright and moving animations for them could be like Longsword scythes from Monster Hunter.

They could have innate Life Strike as their special feature. Their stances should be different from heavy blades and hammers imo. The attack speed could be slower than the average heavy blade but have longer reach than it.

Edited September 16, 2016 by LunarEdge7

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

On 9/14/2016 at 1:10 PM, Inarticulate said:

Inaccurate weapons in the game, sure. Impractical, not so much.

All of the melee weapons in Warframe have blades where you would expect blades and pointy tips where you would expect pointy tips (though I do have to question the decision to put a backwards-facing blade on the Sarpa that clearly exists just to slit your own wrists).

A two-handed scythe has a blade facing the wrong way and a pointy tip facing the wrong way.

I said this in a past thread and people flipped their lids over it.

 

23 minutes ago, LunarEdge7 said:

I like how the first page has people talking about realism of scythes in a game.

It's a fair thing to do. The more grounded elements of a sci-fi or fantasy setting are what let people care about it. It's clear DE are working more on setting/lore, so they would want to maintain suspension of disbelief by keeping some (at least moderately) realistic elements, such as the weapons.

[Inarticulate]

1 hour ago, LunarEdge7 said:

I like how the first page has people talking about realism of scythes in a game. Maybe that's because of the thread title. Damn.

I can still imagine long scythes like this being implemented. We ALREADY have the monstrosity that is War. A very long weapon.

The thing is that the impracticality of a large scythe isn't its size, it's the fact that its blade doesn't face the correct direction, given its location relative to the handle, to be effective.

Large weapons are believable in Warframe. These aren't humans carrying them; Warframes are biomechanical golems with some amount of force manipulation (e.g. bullet jumping, Glaive bounce direction and boomeranging). With significantly greater physical strength, physical bulk, and probably a way to use their void powers to bolt their feet into the ground to prevent them from being dragged along by the momentum, it's sufficiently believable for Warframes to be using weapons of that size.

[Noble_Cactus]

On 9/12/2016 at 0:30 AM, CrudShuzKong said:

We are warriors, not farmers. Scythes are tools of farmers and sometimes reforged to makeshift weapons for uprisings or lynch mobs. No warrior in his right mind would pick up one of these unwieldy things if he has any other choice. Especially those anime-sized things, that look like blunt weapons with a blade in a weird spot that wont ever connect with an enemy...

I get that there are fanboys out there for weapons of this style, but this:

Is unwieldy and huge, way too much so for Warframe in my opinion.

The scythes we already have are more like poleaxes and halberds with too short handles, but at least they look fine and fitting to our universe.

And yet here we are, wielding greatswords and great axes and hammers so large that they might as well all be ceremonial. Not to mention that we can throw glaives, which look nothing like real-life glaives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaive and are a pop culture reference to a 1983 Fantasy movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krull_(film). And as far as I know, boomerangs and hand-thrown buzzsaws definitely don't return to their thrower after slicing their target in half.

Scythes may not actually work against other humans the way they're depicted in fantasy, but so what? Who cares how impractical a farming scythe is in combat when we already have tons of improbable and impractical weapons already in the game? Why do people not bat an eye at the idea of swinging a hammer nearly twice as large as the player or shooting a gun that has a stock with a pointed end (or, in the case of the Redeemer, no stock at all), yet start huffing and puffing about realism when anyone mentions the word "scythe?" The "fantasy toys" and anime complaints are equally ridiculous once you consider how Warframe is steeped heavily in... guess what? Fantasy and anime.

Let's not forget the Lacera, either, which is literally a pair of combat scissors. They could very well be a direct anime reference anyway http://kill-la-kill.wikia.com/wiki/Scissor_Blades.

I feel like I should use this chance to vent about how stupid and impractical the Sarpa's stock is, but I'll pass.

Side note: It'd be cool if we got some real glaives in the game.

On 9/14/2016 at 0:31 AM, Weidro said:

they are fantasy toys

 

no offense but when u look at all weapons in warframe u might recognize they are mostly thin and filigree and follow a certain style
but there is nothing bulky and edgy with a tip heavy unpractical design
given that you have enough muscle power you could use (nearly) all warframe melee weapons in real life (swing speed and some tricks of stances might be wrong but whatever)
even the god dam galatine has a quite thin blade and yes even war has a thin blade just with some energy around it

even with all the space magic and some weird void stuff warframe keeps a certain degree of realism in the game especially when it comes to proportions
and I'm one of the persons that likes to keep it that way
if you really prefer a ridiculous unrealistic and unpractical fantasy themed style you should try one of these weeaboo mmojrpgs like final fantasy or whatever

its like suggesting to use bricks instead of apples for an apple pie

keep that stuff our of warframe it doesn't fit the style of the game at all
or come up with an idea/design that fits the game

The Kaszas adheres to the design principles you mention while also being a large scythe. Perhaps more accurately to a real scythe, it's primarily focused on Puncture damage (like the Anku).

Granted, I wouldn't want something as massive as the scythes linked in the OP. But maybe something more like the Eclipse Scythe from Ninja Gaiden:

Something of that size is well within the boundaries of Warframe's brand of fantasy, without treading too much into the territory of Sephiroth or Cloud's ludicrously long swords.

(Also Final Fantasy XIV's weapons are, for the most part, comparable in absurdity to Warframe's weapons).

Edited September 16, 2016 by Noble_Cactus

[Inarticulate]

2 minutes ago, Noble_Cactus said:

And yet here we are, wielding greatswords and great axes and hammers so large that they might as well all be ceremonial. Not to mention that we can throw glaives, which look nothing like real-life glaives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaive and are a pop culture reference to a 1983 Fantasy movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krull_(film).

It's a similar concept to the Kraken, Gorgon, Gram, and Galatine. The weapon is named as it is to conjure the imagery associated with the name (the Glaive simply has a more mundane name than the more grandiose names above); it doesn't have to actually be what it is named for.

To that matter, I think the Dual Cleavers and Machete are the only weapons that actually are what they're called.

[Noble_Cactus]

Just now, Inarticulate said:

It's a similar concept to the Kraken, Gorgon, Gram, and Galatine. The weapon is named as it is to conjure the imagery associated with the name (the Glaive simply has a more mundane name than the more grandiose names above); it doesn't have to actually be what it is named for.

To that matter, I think the Dual Cleavers and Machete are the only weapons that actually are what they're called.

You're correct, though the point of that line was to show how the in-game Glaives wouldn't work at all like how they're depicted.

[Inarticulate]

7 minutes ago, Noble_Cactus said:

You're correct, though the point of that line was to show how the in-game Glaives wouldn't work at all like how they're depicted.

But this has nothing to do with implementing scythes.

Comparing "how a scythe is used in real life" to "how a scythe is used in a fictional depiction" is valid because both comparisons use the same object (or category of objects) as its base: a scythe. Comparing "how a glaive is used in real life" and "how a bladed throwing weapon called 'Glaive' is used in a fictional depiction" is not valid in this discussion because a glaive is not the same object (or category of objects) as a throwing weapon called 'Glaive'.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Inarticulate

[LunarEdge7]

It's funny we're still on to this..

Space ninjas. We hardly do the 'ninja' part. And Ninja Gaiden has that guy wielding that scythe.

End of story.

[ZodiacShinryu]

Talking about realism in a fantasy game. I wish people could be consistent when they start to throw around realism in things that are suppose to be loosely such.

While speaking about blade location would be relevant to a weapon normally however since this isn't reality and we have "space magic" on our side, this can be solved simply with a hinge or a pivot-point between the shaft and the blade. In fact of the some of the references to other game scythes as well as the kaszas allude to this mechanic. When you swing with the scythe, the hinge can pivot up slightly to open up the blade for the swing. When you redirect the weapon back towards yourself, the blade can pivot back down to accommodate situations where you drag the blade from behind the target. This gives the blade freedom to be rotate as it needs to and since we can invoke space magic the rotation can lock when it needs to. While some movements of a weapon would be impractical to use in comparison to more conventional weapons this is also covered up by more space magic that allows us to swing heavy objects at speeds and dexterity that would be otherwise impossible.

[Inarticulate]

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Talking about realism in a fantasy game. I wish people could be consistent when they start to throw around realism in things that are suppose to be loosely such.

While speaking about blade location would be relevant to a weapon normally however since this isn't reality and we have "space magic" on our side, this can be solved simply with a hinge or a pivot-point between the shaft and the blade. In fact of the some of the references to other game scythes as well as the kaszas allude to this mechanic. When you swing with the scythe, the hinge can pivot up slightly to open up the blade for the swing. When you redirect the weapon back towards yourself, the blade can pivot back down to accommodate situations where you drag the blade from behind the target. This gives the blade freedom to be rotate as it needs to and since we can invoke space magic the rotation can lock when it needs to. While some movements of a weapon would be impractical to use in comparison to more conventional weapons this is also covered up by more space magic that allows us to swing heavy objects at speeds and dexterity that would be otherwise impossible.

Which I would be perfectly fine with. A scythe that can reposition its blade to better accommodate the direction of swing would honestly be perfectly reasonable, though at that point it might as well just be a fancy pole arm since there's literally no point in leaving the blade in its default position. A scythe with a static blade, though, is still just impractical.

I'm also still convinced that the Kaszas is a scythe-shaped axe and not actually a scythe.

[ZodiacShinryu]

8 hours ago, Inarticulate said:

Which I would be perfectly fine with. A scythe that can reposition its blade to better accommodate the direction of swing would honestly be perfectly reasonable, though at that point it might as well just be a fancy pole arm since there's literally no point in leaving the blade in its default position. A scythe with a static blade, though, is still just impractical.

I'm also still convinced that the Kaszas is a scythe-shaped axe and not actually a scythe.

Yes and no. I can certainly see your point of view when you envision a scythe swing in a simple motion. Even with a blade that can reposition like that a large swathe of movements would leave it in a position where the blade is more parallel with the polearm like shaft, making it look more akin to a halberd without the added function of a spear. However, the fact that a scythe has the form it does opens it to other possibilities that are not present in a weapon without it.

I will certainly agree that in our reality scythes are not nearly as practical because humans are very mundane. But in the world of warframe, the movements possible are more robust as well as other physical limitations mitigated. There are a number of ways to more or less accurately use the blade in any position in interesting ways. Which what it really comes down to: Can you convey a feeling of a weapon to the user?

What many fans of what we'll call "Great Scythes" are probably looking for is a heavier feeling to the scythe. It is indeed difficult to translate that feeling through a game like this but at the same time you can feel the differences between longswords classes and heavy blades of Greatswords and Greataxes (though personally I wish they would separate the heavy blades). But currently our scythes are only at most like 3/4 of frame's wingspan leaving much to desire to both reach and blade size. But a Great Scythe that would behave more like a polearm stance (it would really need its own however) with a heavier looking blade and a length that is not to much bigger than our wingspan would add much to the illusion that "this scythe is terrifying!"

Edit: When I say length to our wingspan I mean the polearm shaft part. We certainly don't need super anime sized blades where the blades rival the overall length of the weapon. But the blade should at least reflect its overall length of the shaft.

Edited September 17, 2016 by ZodiacShinryu
clarification

[LunarEdge7]

19 hours ago, Noble_Cactus said:

Not to mention that we can throw glaives

Aka weaponised boomerangs. The name doesn't matter though. They're classified overall in-game as "Throwing Melee".

Also, don't forget Reaping Spiral's Abyssal Automaton on the low-range boomerang part of its combo.

[Culaio]

Are people really trying to apply realism to warframe, game based on "RULE OF COOL" O_o, we are using in game weapons so big that they should throw us around with every move because of momentum.

"souls"(demon/dark souls and bloodborne) games have one of most realistic momentum(MUCH more realistic then warframe) on their weapons(you can really feel weight on those weapons) and even in them you will find scythe weapons

 

[(XBOX)f1stcmgetsum]

On Sunday, September 11, 2016 at 11:11 PM, (PS4)LordSnoz007 said:

When I picked up Warframe back during the premier of Valkyr and Ember Prime, update 11 I think? Anyways I had gone in blind, I had no Idea what anything was and actually learned how to play through trial and error. I knew nothing of the massive online presence and community that the game possessed. Not to mention I had grade A S#&$ternet and had to solo-dolo all missions for the first two months or so I was playing. Regardless I'm still an avid player of the game and love every aspect... give or take. But one thing that I have wanted from the beginning was a scythe, and not the glorified pick-axes that are in the game currently (No offense DE they look cool just not what I was looking for). When I think of a scythe my mind travels over to something Like the Harvester from Darksiders 2(Nekros take notes, this is what death looks like.), or Ninja Gaiden with its Eclipse scythe. Anyways my point is that I would love to see more scythes that adopt the elongated dual handed stature. You could even consider them heavy weapons and use tempo royal, but give them a higher swing speed than the likes of Galatine and  war. Maybe even go for a Channeling based weapon class, disintegration would go well with the scythes. Honestly that would just be for easy implementation and to avoid adding more singular stance mods that people have to farm for. 

But that just about sums it up. I would love to see large executioner scythes implemented into Warframe. Thoughts? Hate? Comments?

 

This is a true gamer man I @(*()$ love those games! I strongly agree on getting a new scythe along with a new stance. I love my ether reaper but that's the only one and reaper prime I can't get but looks kind of ugly. A new scythe would be awesome and it should have a different execution from behind and a new stance. You sir are a true gamer and this idea should be recognized 

[(PSN)LordSnoz007]

Thank you sir, but I have to say I love the games and have managed to get around to various genres. It just seems that the scythe as a weapon has been neglected through out video game related media. So I just wanted to have a say in weather they get done right in Warframe.