Remove Morphics From Vor

[Cleesus]

Or you can just require the game to be in solo or private mode if the frame your using is too high a level for the mission. That fixes the problem without trying to remove rare mats people high level and low need.

[Xylia]

However, Morphics drop in 3 places right now, Vor, Anyo, and Ambulas.

 

lol.

 

So you're saying Morphics can't come out of boxes and containers?

 

Do the Mars Exterminate. Or better yet, do some stuff on Europa. You'll see all kinds of Morphics.

 

IMO, Control Modules, Neurodes, and Neural Sensors need to be brought up to Morphics-style dorps. I actually find Morphics in boxes. Heck, Orokin Cells are better than those 3 things.

 

But yeah, Vor dropping Morphics is fine. He drops the Cronus blueprint, and Morphics (along with Ferrite and Bundles) are part of the resources required to make the Cronus.

 

The Cronus is more of a Foundry Demo item; a Newbie is expected to be able to make the Cronus as their first Foundry-Built upgrade. All of the materials for it drop in Mercury which makes sense.

[Xylia]

Probably it's the right idea, "activating the boss" only when all the players are there.

I fear of the possible trolling of this.But someone can troll anything today.

 

 

All of the Jackal Runs I've done, I've never had anybody troll me at Jackal. God knows it must have taken a good 30 runs to get my Rhino completed.

 

There were a couple times I had to wait 30-45 sec for someone to catch up, but that's fine.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Xylia

[Enot83]

So here's my problem with Vor dropping Morphics. Morphics is needed for quite a lot of end-gamey(current game) weapons(Gorgon, Despair, etc) and it's needed by the lots. However, Morphics drop in 3 places right now, Vor, Anyo, and Ambulas. I'd maybe push for removing it from Anyo as well, but it's not nearly as big of an issue as it is with Vor. Why is it such a big issue with it being on Vor? Because this is the first boss of the game and this is typically when the game gets "lame" "boring" "stupid" for newer players that decide to go online instead of sticking with other newbie friends/solo. This is because one of us high levels come in and rush straight to Vor as quick as we can, decimate him in a few shots, grab our drop, and go. This is a problem in the eyes of a LOT of new players, in fact it's one of the most common complaints I see from newbies giving feedback. However, if Vor never dropped our "end-game" material, this wouldn't be a problem to begin with.

 

So here's what I suggest: Remove Morphics from Vor. Then change the Cronus to either being crafted with no rare material and/or introduce a new "rare" material that will be used in all "newbie" weapons. Or hell even set it to require an Orokin Cell(a.k.a. give them a reason to move towards the next boss).

 

I'd never run Vor for morphics, thats a terrible plan if you need morphics.  Run mars...

 

Edit:  That is to say, I agree, its removal from Vor in the regard to being able to find it in other locations so easily and in more quantities (rate at which you find it, not how much in a drop), the argument for it being less farmable, is made by people who don't know where to farm to begin with.

 

The only problem could potentially be for those new players, who may have gotten them previously from Vor and been able to build something early on, however.... Mars as just one example, isn't far away.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Enot83

[Xylia]

I'd never run Vor for morphics, thats a terrible plan if you need morphics.  Run mars...

 

A long time ago, before I got some decent mods I used to run Vor for Morphics.

 

He has a ridiculously terribad drop rate for them too, about as bad as Control Modules.

 

There's better options for Morphics.

 

There are none, however, for Control Modules/Sensors.

[CeePee]

Anyo has the best droprate for Morphics, I can't see any reason why high level players would want to waste time on Vor.

 

I like getting a random drop of Morphics from M-Prime, so I say no for removing it.

[Ghobe]

Xylia, let's face it, when you're after a rare material, the most common place to go for it is the assassination mission. I'm not saying it can't come out of the other missions, I'm not saying it can't come from containers/lockers, I'm just saying those are the three areas people will think to hit before anywhere else.

As to Cronus, I already brought up 3 solutions for it: Remove Morphics from it, Change Morphics to Orokin Cell, and finally, Replace Morphics with some new drop.

 

 

As to everyone saying "derp derp why would you even farm Vor for Morphics, Anyo/Europa derp derp", go look at feedback from new players. This isn't a rare occurrence, this is pretty damned common. Just about everyone that has posted their newbie experience has had this complaint in it. I'm happy you guys know a better farming place, but that doesn't mean everyone does.

 

As to everyone saying "derp derp play solo", really? That's the same argument you guys are using against rushers and rushers are using against you. Has it stopped the occurrences? No, so clearly DE needs to step in and disincentivize this.

 

Anyo is just as easy if not easier than Vor, we mostly all know that, but that's not what I'm trying to say here. I'm trying to help DE grab newer players by not ruining their first boss experience.

 

The other point I'm trying to make is that high rank/level/late/end-gamey gear should require drops from late/end-game. Why is some of, if not THEE best gear in the game requiring drops from the first 5 levels of the game?

 

Why the hell are people so against this change? "Doesn't affect me, why change it lol" That's the argument a lot of you are giving me.

[JustDont]

About the only thing that you'd want to farm from boss in PUG -- is the control module (and that's only because rates are bad).

Otherwise it's much more practical to either solo-run boss, so you can beat each map in the minimal possible time, or to just play normal missions with PUG and go around opening all lockers and smashing all boxes.

 

Rushing the boss in PUG is counterproductive as you can't exit the map fast enough. Solo-exploring may be counterproductive as well (i.e. slower) unless you can steamroll all enemies without even thinking.

 

PS: On the topic of morphics, normal missions from Mars and/or Europa (Pluto is out, because tougher mobs make farming slower) net me a lot more morphics per hour than repeated Vor runs.

Edited June 27, 2013 by JustDont

[Ghobe]

About the only thing that you'd want to farm from boss in PUG -- is the control module (and that's only because rates are bad).

Otherwise it's much more practical to either solo-run boss, so you can beat each map in the minimal possible time, or to just play normal missions with PUG and go around opening all lockers and smashing all boxes.

 

Rushing the boss in PUG is counterproductive as you can't exit the map fast enough. Solo-exploring may be counterproductive as well (i.e. slower) unless you can steamroll all enemies without even thinking.

What does that have to do with the topic at hand?

[JustDont]

What does that have to do with the topic at hand?

Instead of removing anything from anyone, simply tell people they should just do Mars.

 

Problem solved.

[direcyphre]

So it sounds to me like the only real complaint here is that 'high level players ruin it by speedrunning Vor' Which is a bit of an assumption. That's not to say there aren't high level individuals running Vor Online, but anyone attempting to farm something that low level would run it solo and not waste their time at extraction for slow newbies. This all above and beyond there being obviously better options on Mars. There is no other reason I see for removing Morphics from a low level boss that nobody would bother farming if you could farm Mars.

 

Your solution is to change everything to not really accomplish anything. Change morphics to ????? and change the Cronus blueprint to not require morphics. The current system works quite well as an intro to the foundry seeing as how you can generally get all the necessary components to begin construction your first blueprint as soon as you defeat the first boss (provided you didn't end up with detonite ampules, which still pollute the assassination target loot tables).

[Ghobe]

Instead of removing anything from anyone, simply tell people they should just do Mars.

 

Problem solved.

That does not solve the problem. You going to create multiple accounts that constantly run Volstoj to tell high levels where to go instead? That doesn't solve the problem.

 

That's not to say there aren't high level individuals running Vor Online, but anyone attempting to farm something that low level would run it solo and not waste their time at extraction for slow newbies. This all above and beyond there being obviously better options on Mars. There is no other reason I see for removing Morphics from a low level boss that nobody would bother farming if you could farm Mars.

 

That's why every single newbie feedback thread has this complaint in it right?

 

The current system works quite well as an intro to the foundry seeing as how you can generally get all the necessary components to begin construction your first blueprint as soon as you defeat the first boss (provided you didn't end up with detonite ampules, which still pollute the assassination target loot tables).

How would removing Morphics(as a drop and from Cronus) or dropping a new "rare" material change that experience in any way, shape, or form?

Edited June 27, 2013 by Ghobe

[JustDont]

That does not solve the problem.

Removing morphics from the drop list "solves" the problem by making a bigger problem.

[Ghobe]

Removing morphics from the drop list "solves" the problem by making a bigger problem.

What bigger problem? Forcing higher levels to farm an area that's already the best farming area?

[direcyphre]

That's why every single newbie feedback thread has this complaint in it right?

 

 

 

How would removing Morphics(as a drop and from Cronus) or dropping a new "rare" material change that experience in any way, shape, or form?

I've been on the forums long enough to have rarely seen posts concerning higher levels ruining it for newbies. Far more complaints about rushers amongst a variety of other boss levels (for those farming worthwhile blueprints).

 

Because the experience currently works as it stands. The thing I am pointing out is that you have not offered an actual alternative solution yourself to this proposed change. You just want it removed, and thusly removed from the first blueprint acquired by a new player. A better response would have been naming a specific material that should drop and why it should apply to the construction of the Cronus. None of which is necessary because you only want it removed so that higher level players no longer want to 'farm' a level that isn't worth the time for its' Morphics drop rate. In the end, Morphics is actually one of the best solutions, because it's not a rare material, as it can be acquired in quantity in later missions (as opposed to the other rare materials that currently drop primarily from other bosses).

[Ghobe]

I've been on the forums long enough to have rarely seen posts concerning higher levels ruining it for newbies. Far more complaints about rushers amongst a variety of other boss levels (for those farming worthwhile blueprints).

 

Because the experience currently works as it stands. The thing I am pointing out is that you have not offered an actual alternative solution yourself to this proposed change. You just want it removed, and thusly removed from the first blueprint acquired by a new player. A better response would have been naming a specific material that should drop and why it should apply to the construction of the Cronus. None of which is necessary because you only want it removed so that higher level players no longer want to 'farm' a level that isn't worth the time for its' Morphics drop rate. In the end, Morphics is actually one of the best solutions, because it's not a rare material, as it can be acquired in quantity in later missions (as opposed to the other rare materials that currently drop primarily from other bosses).

Actually I've given 3 alternatives.

Removing Morphics from him and the Cronus BP.

Creating a new material to drop from Vor that is used in the Cronus BP and possibly other low rank/newbie weapons.

Removing Morphics from Vor and changing the Cronus BP to require an Orokin Cell.

 

Thanks for reading what was in the OP though...oh wait.

 

Also just because something works, does not mean it works properly, efficiently, nor even correctly. If you made a catapult and instead of flinging the rock, it flung itself underground it could be labelled as "working". It sure as hell isn't working correctly, but it's working.

[DeadlyNerd]

Actually gallium from Anyo should be moved to Vor and replaced by some uncommon resource. I really don't see the point of 1 boss dropping 2 rare resource.

[scavenge]

When I was new to the game 1-2 months ago I was always the last to everything. Ofc I didn't expect any different as you always have to get used to a new game. I don't see any issue here. Life goes on, maybe the newbies will learn something?

[Xylia]

Xylia, let's face it, when you're after a rare material, the most common place to go for it is the assassination mission. I'm not saying it can't come out of the other missions, I'm not saying it can't come from containers/lockers, I'm just saying those are the three areas people will think to hit before anywhere else.

As to Cronus, I already brought up 3 solutions for it: Remove Morphics from it, Change Morphics to Orokin Cell, and finally, Replace Morphics with some new drop.

 

#1, we do the community a huge favor in properly educating people. Tell people that you get awesome morphics out of Mars non-boss missions, or Europa if they're high enough.

 

#2, you want to remove the item you DO get from Mercury and replace it with an item you don't? lol? How are newbies fresh to Warframe supposed to GET Orokin Cells? You want newbies to have Cronus blueprints and be unable to make Cronus until way later (you don't get your first Orokin Cell planet until SATURN)?

 

They claim all bosses can drop Orokin Cells, but I've never seen Vor or Jackal drop one, ever. Vor I killed quite a few times before I learned about Mars, and Jackal.....lol. At least 30 times trying to get Rhino. Not a single Cell has ever dropped.

 

EDIT: And even if you did remove Morphics from Mercury, what would you put in its place? All planets have Rare resources except Venus (which I already find kinda odd, I think they ought to replace Polymer Bundle with Control Module), so it wouldn't make any sense that Mercury has no rare resources at all. Gallium? Why would you want to give Newbies Gallium? What would they use it for? Orokin Cells? Maybe... but not very many "newbie" weapons use Orokin Cells; those are for potatoes, Warframes, and Void Weapons and have plenty of easy places to get them.

 

Morphics is a common material that weapons take, esp early weapons and seems perfect for Mercury.

 

I just don't see the problem here.

 

So some newbies feel "forced" to farm Captain Vor and some higher mid-level players who haven't discovered Mars go farm him too. So?

 

Is that really THAT big of an issue?

Edited June 27, 2013 by Xylia

[direcyphre]

Actually I've given 3 alternatives.

Removing Morphics from him and the Cronus BP.

Creating a new material to drop from Vor that is used in the Cronus BP and possibly other low rank/newbie weapons.

Removing Morphics from Vor and changing the Cronus BP to require an Orokin Cell.

 

Thanks for reading what was in the OP though...oh wait.

 

Also just because something works, does not mean it works properly, efficiently, nor even correctly. If you made a catapult and instead of flinging the rock, it flung itself underground it could be labelled as "working". It sure as hell isn't working correctly, but it's working.

Apparently you failed to comprehend my post. I said name a specific resource. Orokin cell? Oh cool, I shall post an exact parody of this topic and see how people respond. Vor dropping Orokin cells? Only invites high levels to rush the level because its the easiest to farm! You're really missing the point about morphics being ideal when they are far more easily acquired from a variety of other planets.

 

This all above and beyond the points I've made. Your only complaint is that other people are ruining it for newbies, therefore all those aspects should be changed. Nevermind the fact that nobody would bother farming that level in online mode, or that there are better places for it. Just ignore all that and continue wanting to change every aspect about the first boss drops because you had such a terrible experience as a newbie when some bully came into your game and rushed it.

[Ghobe]

(you don't get your first Orokin Cell planet until SATURN)?

Saturn is so far away! You're right! Oh wait..

Oh but wait! Saturn is so much higher level with the first mission being 3-8 and Venus' being 5-10, Venus is so much easier!

Hell we could take the the tutorial and have it add a stage to it, "all materials for an item do NOT come from the same system" which is a better message for them to have in their heads off the start.

 

#2, you want to remove the item you DO get from Mercury and replace it with an item you don't? lol?

As I've said, many times already, that is ONE of the three proposed solutions.

 

They claim all bosses can drop Orokin Cells, but I've never seen Vor or Jackal drop one, ever. Vor I killed quite a few times before I learned about Mars, and Jackal.....lol. At least 30 times trying to get Rhino. Not a single Cell has ever dropped.

Since I started tracking it, outside of system specific areas(i.e. Saturn), I've managed to get them from Anyo and Hyena multiple times each, though they aren't Vor I suppose is the point you're trying to make.

 

Vor dropping Orokin cells? Only invites high levels to rush the level because its the easiest to farm! You're really missing the point about morphics being ideal when they are far more easily acquired from a variety of other planets.

That is not what I said at all. I said change the Cronus to require an Orokin Cell instead of Morphics. I never said add Orokin Cells to Vor(though rumor has it he drops them already! D:)

 

Your only complaint is that other people are ruining it for newbies, therefore all those aspects should be changed.

You make it sound like I'm changing 30% of the game, I'm hardly changing 1% of it to help greatly improve the game experience for newer players.

 

Nevermind the fact that nobody would bother farming that level in online mode, or that there are better places for it.

Except they do. I was only inspired to make this post after having seen it in so many newbie feedback threads. Hell go to Volstoj right now, count how many high level/ranked players you run into within an hour. I bet the number surprises you.

 

Just ignore all that and continue wanting to change every aspect about the first boss drops because you had such a terrible experience as a newbie when some bully came into your game and rushed it.

Wrong, I was still soloing/playing with friends at this point of the game when I was a newbie. Thanks for trying to turn this on me though.

[Xylia]

I think pretty much, this is such a silly little issue that all boils down to higher levels living under a rock and not knowing that Mars has far better drop rates, to be honest.

 

And uh, Saturn being right near Tolstoj doesn't change anything; there's quite a bit of Infested in there IIRC.

 

Also, the jump from Level 1-4 clear up to 5-8 is a fairly significant jump.

 

Also, when you go into Saturn you start seeing heavier units such as Seekers, Toxic Ancients, Scorches.

 

These units very much hurt and take a bit of firepower to bring down, which a newbie might not have the ability to solo just yet, esp if they're still using things like the MK1, or unmodded Braton, Lato and the Skana since you want to swap the Morphics for Orokin Cell in the Cronus Blueprint.

 

The way it is now is just fine -- your first Foundry item is made from everything that drops right there in Mercury itself.

 

Yeah, so a few high levels go in and farm....... only because they have somehow not heard the news that Mars is far better for Morphics.

 

Add to the fact that He ALWAYS drops the Cronus Blueprint for a newbie's first time fighting him (which means the Newbie never needs to kill him again), and there's really not THAT much of an issue here.

 

The EASIEST way to fix this problem is to spread the word: Mars and Europa drop awesome Morphics, don't farm Vor because that's the worst drop rate in the game.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Xylia

[Ghobe]

And uh, Saturn being right near Tolstoj doesn't change anything; there's quite a bit of Infested in there IIRC.

Of the 21 missions there are 4 infested missions. The first infested mission is 5 deep and off the path to the boss(which is 4 deep).

 

Also, the jump from Level 1-4 clear up to 5-8 is a fairly significant jump.

The jump is from 2-4 to 3-8. If you choose to go to Venus instead, the jump is from 2-4 to 5-10, a steeper jump.

 

Saturn is the natural progression route.

 

These units very much hurt and take a bit of firepower to bring down, which a newbie might not have the ability to solo just yet, esp if they're still using things like the MK1, or unmodded Braton, Lato and the Skana since you want to swap the Morphics for Orokin Cell in the Cronus Blueprint.

Not really. Unranked and unmodded weapons do just fine here, even when they aren't a high-tier weapon. The base weaponry will do just fine here.

 

Do you have something against Saturn?

 

I think pretty much, this is such a silly little issue that all boils down to higher levels living under a rock and not knowing that Mars has far better drop rates, to be honest.

Yes that might be what it stems from, but that doesn't mean we can't fix it.

[Xylia]

Yes that might be what it stems from, but that doesn't mean we can't fix it.

 

Of course we can fix it!

 

We can EDUCATE the players instead of "fixing" something that doesn't really need fixing, just because people are using it wrong.

 

Seriously.

 

Morphics and the Cronus are fine.

 

The ONLY issue is high-level players farming him for something that is far more easily gotten elsewhere. This is NOT the game's fault in the slightest.

 

This is a PEBKAC problem and should be treated like a PEBKAC problem.

[Ghobe]

Of course we can fix it!

 

We can EDUCATE the players instead of "fixing" something that doesn't really need fixing, just because people are using it wrong.

 

Seriously.

 

Morphics and the Cronus are fine.

 

The ONLY issue is high-level players farming him for something that is far more easily gotten elsewhere. This is NOT the game's fault in the slightest.

 

This is a PEBKAC problem and should be treated like a PEBKAC problem.

Sigh...just because it's PEBCAK does not mean the game can not change to try and help prevent/solve the issue. This is kind of like being against allowing key bindings to be changed. The game works in its own right, but a little bit of change can go a long way.