Every ability should be useful

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Warframes should have a full kit of 4 equally useful powers that do not need to be gimped to make any other part of the kit function decently.

The example i would give is if warframe loadouts worked like warframe powers. You have a primary, a secondary, a melee, and a companion (lets say). Welp, in order to get the best use out of your primary, you need negative ammo on your secondary (not sure how thatd work), and your melee weapon will be worthless, but your companion will be able to quickly stun stuff....and hey, there are some loadouts you can take that will see less negative effects from working to make each weapon worthwhile, so an easy solution is to just always use those weapons and not the ones you like (talking about volt here, but i kind of hope every understands this is about every frame).

I understand the concept of min maxing, that in order to get an ability to perform above standards,  you need to sacrifice something BUT, that is where disagreements start....i do not believe that every ability is performing at 100%, or they wouldnt feel so underwhelming when even halfway modded for (speed)

I just believe all 4 abilities should be useful from the start. That, or augments nees to be turned into skill trees with multiple different options.

And focus schools arent helping the situation, they only make it seem like ots ok for the warframe itself to be limited (viazarin for trinity, zenurik for everyone else)

Dont have much else on that subject, just wanted to say something real quick....hope everyones enjoying the game.

[Glitch_Kitten]

they're working on revamping older frames, DE is definitely aware that a lot of abilities and even entire frames are underwhelming, changes are coming, just slowly.

[Xzorn]

Most  frames have 4 useful abilities, they're just not all useful under every circumstance or level range.

Vazarin is best for squishy frames that cannot afford to stand still and revive another player.  I use it on my Mirage exclusively.

[Zachatoo]

Isn't every ability useful in some way? Not every ability is going to be equally useful in every situation, especially if you mod to make certain abilities stronger/weaker. Regarding Speed, if you're modding it at "halfway" then of course it's going to feel underwhelming, you full well know that you're gimping that abilities potential when you mod a certain way in order to benefit another ability, it's called balance.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

I think it is based on the people.
for example i have always thought that oberon is not good as his skills are mediocre and another frames ability do his skill better.

But some player says he is OP. 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

2 hours ago, Glitch_Kitten said:

they're working on revamping older frames, DE is definitely aware that a lot of abilities and even entire frames are underwhelming, changes are coming, just slowly.

So i sure hope they only did a quick fix to nekros to try and get sales on the prime, and a real rework is coming

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

Most  frames have 4 useful abilities, they're just not all useful under every circumstance or level range.

Vazarin is best for squishy frames that cannot afford to stand still and revive another player.  I use it on my Mirage exclusively.

I mean the extra range on blessing you get with a maxed viazarin ( im pretty sure it has to be maxed), instead of just increasing blessings range and leaving the focus school out of it. Yes, its good for squishy frames, but in this game of power denial, power draining, energy regen is almost aways better. Or invisibility. Naramon and zenurik were mistakes.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

I think it is based on the people.
for example i have always thought that oberon is not good as his skills are mediocre and another frames ability do his skill better.

But some player says he is OP. 

The only thing that coud possibly be op is the bug on reckoning and radiation spam....reckoning again bring the problem, but i think its an amazing ability.

And yes, the difference in playstyes and expectations make this a very hard game to comprise in...skill trees on abilities would be nice

Edited October 7, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

41 minutes ago, Zachatoo said:

Isn't every ability useful in some way? Not every ability is going to be equally useful in every situation, especially if you mod to make certain abilities stronger/weaker. Regarding Speed, if you're modding it at "halfway" then of course it's going to feel underwhelming, you full well know that you're gimping that abilities potential when you mod a certain way in order to benefit another ability, it's called balance.

Thats balanced if each ability was already useful at 100% stats, but many abilities need to go over 100% just to be where i feel they should be at base. What i consider useful, and what you consider useful could be wildly different Answering your question is something i want to do, but your question is almost impossible to answer unless im ready to accept the fact we would end up talking about completely different things or go into indepth detail on every post. For example, i say soul punch sucks. It sends enemies away, doesnt really do what its description says, and ony targets one enemy. No modding will ever make that ability better. You might like it precisely because everything i dislike. My post here can be entirely disegarded by any naysayer really. 

....every ability is useful. Like iron jab. But they can also suck. Like iron jab.

[Xzorn]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I mean the extra range on blessing you get with a maxed viazarin ( im pretty sure it has to be maxed), instead of just increasing blessings range and leaving the focus school out of it. Yes, its good for squishy frames, but in this game of power denial, power draining, energy regen is almost aways better. Or invisibility. Naramon and zenurik were mistakes.

 

I forget it works with blessing like that, it's weird.  I somehow don't think it was intended.

I use Zenurik the most but it's more because I build around it rather than the game mechanics. Like using Blind Rage with no PFlow.  It also allows me to always use CP.

I'm gunna have to dump like 10 forma when they nerf it.

I think Naramon was just a band-aid fix for the fact only 3-4 frames can really melee past lvl 80.

[DatDarkOne]

42 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

I use Zenurik the most but it's more because I build around it rather than the game mechanics. Like using Blind Rage with no PFlow. 

You aren't the only one fellow Tenno.  :D

[Zachatoo]

2 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Thats balanced if each ability was already useful at 100% stats, but many abilities need to go over 100% just to be where i feel they should be at base. What i consider useful, and what you consider useful could be wildly different Answering your question is something i want to do, but your question is almost impossible to answer unless im ready to accept the fact we would end up talking about completely different things or go into indepth detail on every post. For example, i say soul punch sucks. It sends enemies away, doesnt really do what its description says, and ony targets one enemy. No modding will ever make that ability better. You might like it precisely because everything i dislike. My post here can be entirely disegarded by any naysayer really. 

....every ability is useful. Like iron jab. But they can also suck. Like iron jab.

Considering you can reach +299% power strength without Energy Conversion or Growing Power, effectively making an ability 3x more powerful with no conditions, it's expected that abilities will not be amazingly effective at 100% strength or less. No need to go into extensive detail about every single ability, in general abilities can be scaled up to insane amounts with corrupted mods that having lower base values is required so we don't break the game with min-max builds. *insert silent plea to remove/nerf/change corrupted mods* I just hope that Damage 3.0 comes with serious changes on both sides so all abilities can have stronger base values and mods be focused more on changing your playstyle instead of making abilities more/less effective, augments are a good start but far too many of them are not worth slotting compared to "moar power."

You can hit 374% power strength solo, 449% strength in a full squad with Energy Conversion and Growing Power active.