[SPOILERS] Feedback On the new Riven Mods system

[PvtMaguire]

I fully believe that I am not alone when I say that the current riven mod system is garbage. To put time and effort into farming the resources to cycle a riven mod only to have the chance for it to become completely outstandingly worse is unacceptable. Surely a grind game should reward players for grinding - not slap them in the face when they grind/farm to cycle a riven mod by giving them something WORSE.

Here's why it's bad and why it needs to be changed or removed :

the chances on each mod are totally random (meaning your first riven mod could be a totally negative mod with no benefits) and only work on a specific weapon (which you may not even have)

after you have grinded for kuva from an enemy which has an unreliable spawn rate you can invest this kuva into cycling your mod for a chance for it to get better or worse which means you could get totally screwed over despite the fact that you have just invested time and effort into the game

if your mod did get worse then you could cycle again but then it could get better or worse and even if it did get better it might not be at the same level as the first version - so you have just wasted 1800 kuva for a worse mod

a possible improvement of this might be to make it so that it has a chance to succeed in being cycled or to fail - so a 75% chance to cycle AND ONLY GET BETTER but a 25% chance to fail and remain as it is - ATLEAST then you could waste 1800 kuva but your mod would still be the same (of course there would be a cycle cap to stop the mod getting infinitely better) - also instead of each mod being for a specific weapon make it for a weapon class e.g rifles , shotguns 

Edited November 13, 2016 by PvtMaguire

[Imaru]

The system isn't even a full day old, maybe give it time to see how it breaks down.

Also, if I recall correctly you can cycle your mod to another one. And in the worst case, if you really don't like the system just don't use it. I don't think it should be removed less than a day after it is introduced. 

[PvtMaguire]

Just now, Imaru said:

The system isn't even a full day old, maybe give it time to see how it breaks down.

Also, if I recall correctly you can cycle your mod to another one. And in the worst case, if you really don't like the system just don't use it. I don't think it should be removed less than a day after it is introduced. 

So I spend 900 more kuva which will have to farm for from an unreliably spawning enemy to cycle again and then still have a chance for the mod to be worse again ? No thanks

[Imaru]

Just now, PvtMaguire said:

So I spend 900 more kuva which will have to farm for from an unreliably spawning enemy to cycle again and then still have a chance for the mod to be worse again ? No thanks

Then don't use the system. I don't see what the problem here is. 

[PvtMaguire]

3 minutes ago, Imaru said:

The system isn't even a full day old, maybe give it time to see how it breaks down.

Also, if I recall correctly you can cycle your mod to another one. And in the worst case, if you really don't like the system just don't use it. I don't think it should be removed less than a day after it is introduced. 

if I'm not using a system and a large portion of people who also hate the system aren't using it - then why should it still be in place ?

[Sarattas]

Lets remove everything!

This forum is just ridiculous.. I would like to see some balancing changes maybe, but i really like the idea of those mods and challenges.

3 minutes ago, PvtMaguire said:

So I spend 900 more kuva which will have to farm for from an unreliably spawning enemy to cycle again and then still have a chance for the mod to be worse again ? No thanks

Its risk factor. If you think your mod isnt good enough you can try to make it better (or worse). If you dont want to take the risk, just dont do it and keep your mod as it is.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Sarattas

[Brasten]

54 minutes ago, PvtMaguire said:

I fully believe that I am not alone when I say that the current riven mod system is garbage.

Garbage may be a strong word choice.

My concern is that it will negatively interact with Damage 3.0. The more and more Raw Damage mods we throw into the current system, the worse the transposition into anything else. Even just trying to clean up the system.

Riven Mods needed to be a Post Damage 3.0 addition, after the ramifications of any changes ripple through the Meta for a few months.

It is too soon for Riven Mods!

Edited November 13, 2016 by Brasten

[PvtMaguire]

Just now, Sarattas said:

Lets remove everything!

This forum is just ridiculous.. I would like to see some balancing changes maybe, but i really like the idea of those mods and challenges.

Its risk factor. If you think your mod isnt good enough you can try to make it better (or worse). If you dont want, just dont do it and keep your mod as it is.

But the mod I get after doing a stupidly ridiculous challenge like killing 4 enemies in a single aim glide might not be even that good to start with and these riven mods are rare to come by anyway so if I keep it as it is then I might just have a totally useless mod

[Imaru]

Just now, PvtMaguire said:

if I'm not using a system and a large portion of people who also hate the system aren't using it - then why should it still be in place ?

Because, like I said, it is a brand new system, so by definition a large portion of the player base (that hasn't even unlocked it yet) don't use it. Give it time to be tweaked, and if, after a while, it is still not to your liking, you can complain about it, but not like this. At least be constructive in your criticism. 

[Stonehenge]

16 minutes ago, PvtMaguire said:

I fully believe that I am not alone when I say that the current riven mod system is garbage. To put time and effort into farming the resources to cycle a riven mod only to have the chance for it to become completely outstandingly worse is unacceptable. Surely a grind game should reward players for grinding - not slap them in the face when they grind/farm to cycle a riven mod by giving them something WORSE.

Chill out, breeze, drink a beer. It's ONE DAY old. There's nothing to remove, just to rework a bit, i d say. Relax.

[Tveoh]

New system, with an interesting concept behind it.   Makes it unique...   No need to remove it.   Cause if we go by the "cause people hate it"  Then we should get rid of all the frames that "people" say are bad, all the weapons, all the mods, all the companians, and all the missions.  till we are all using hte same build, same weapons, and playing the same mission over and over and over again,  with no vairity at all...

[PvtMaguire]

1 minute ago, Imaru said:

Because, like I said, it is a brand new system, so by definition a large portion of the player base (that hasn't even unlocked it yet) don't use it. Give it time to be tweaked, and if, after a while, it is still not to your liking, you can complain about it, but not like this. At least be constructive in your criticism. 

Here's why it's bad and why it needs to be changed or removed :

the chances on each mod are totally random (meaning your first riven mod could be a totally negative mod with no benefits) and only work on a specific weapon (which you may not even have)

after you have grinded for kuva from an enemy which has an unreliable spawn rate you can invest this kuva into cycling your mod for a chance for it to get better or worse which means you could get totally screwed over despite the fact that you have just invested time and effort into the game

if your mod did get worse then you could cycle again but then it could get better or worse and even if it did get better it might not be at the same level as the first version - so you have just wasted 1800 kuva for a worse mod

a possible improvement of this might be to make it so that it has a chance to succeed in being cycled or to fail - so a 75% chance to cycle AND ONLY GET BETTER but a 25% chance to fail and remain as it is - ATLEAST then you could waste 1800 kuva but your mod would still be the same (of course there would be a cycle cap to stop the mod getting infinitely better) - also instead of each mod being for a specific weapon make it for a weapon class e.g rifles , shotguns 

 

[PvtMaguire]

6 minutes ago, Tveoh said:

New system, with an interesting concept behind it.   Makes it unique...   No need to remove it.   Cause if we go by the "cause people hate it"  Then we should get rid of all the frames that "people" say are bad, all the weapons, all the mods, all the companians, and all the missions.  till we are all using hte same build, same weapons, and playing the same mission over and over and over again,  with no vairity at all...

U don't loose out on having a frame or weapon - you get SOMETHING for investing materials into a "bad" gun - with this it is possible to Loose

[Stonehenge]

8 minutes ago, Tveoh said:

New system, with an interesting concept behind it.   Makes it unique...   No need to remove it.   Cause if we go by the "cause people hate it"  Then we should get rid of all the frames that "people" say are bad, all the weapons, all the mods, all the companians, and all the missions.  till we are all using hte same build, same weapons, and playing the same mission over and over and over again,  with no vairity at all...

Yep. The eternal angry mob song.

[Aburith]

The only problem I see with this new system is that we have a limit to the number of mods? I think it adds some variety to the game. Is it promoting grind? Yeah, but this is a system similar to other games I've played; they're doing fine, but I'm not a fan of them anymore. Implications of this new system? Most definitely will spread to secondary and melee weapons if it runs its course without any hitches. 

So, idk, my only concern as I've said is that limit to riven mods. Basically, it means you're going to have to ask yourself what are the 15 best rifles in the game and farm for the best riven mods for those. Going to create some nasty problems.

Also, some of those unlock requirements are ridiculously hard. But, then again, having seen some of the effects in wiki, could/could not warrant them. 

[PvtMaguire]

2 minutes ago, Aburith said:

The only problem I see with this new system is that we have a limit to the number of mods? I think it adds some variety to the game. Is it promoting grind? Yeah, but this is a system similar to other games I've played; they're doing fine, but I'm not a fan of them anymore. Implications of this new system? Most definitely will spread to secondary and melee weapons if it runs its course without any hitches. 

So, idk, my only concern as I've said is that limit to riven mods. Basically, it means you're going to have to ask yourself what are the 15 best rifles in the game and farm for the best riven mods for those. Going to create some nasty problems.

Also, some of those unlock requirements are ridiculously hard. But, then again, having seen some of the effects in wiki, could/could not warrant them. 

I totally like the idea of completing a challenge to receive a mod because it makes the grind interesting however I am annoyed that I have now wasted 2700 kuva into my rifle supra mod and twice out of the 3 times it has gotten worse which means I've spent 2700 kuva (which takes time to farm) on a worse mod 

[Stonehenge]

7 minutes ago, PvtMaguire said:

I totally like the idea of completing a challenge to receive a mod because it makes the grind interesting however I am annoyed that I have now wasted 2700 kuva into my rifle supra mod and twice out of the 3 times it has gotten worse which means I've spent 2700 kuva (which takes time to farm) on a worse mod 

It's just that in fact, all this thread for that :

You are just extremely offended. I mean, who told you to put all the new ressources you have just farm into a new mod that gives you positives and negatives stats ? Why didn't you just take a step back ? It's a fresh material, you rushed into it and now you are pissed off.

Well, guess what there is a risk factor in it, like someone told you before. That's all the fun part in it.

So it's garbage because you made a mistake ? I don't think so.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Stonehenge

[Borg1611]

Sometimes I wish game developers were just a tiny bit less obsessed with excessive multi-layered RNG. Re-rolling riven mods sounds about as exciting as re-rolling legendaries in the D3 cube (aka not at all). 

Would it have been insane to have some kind of riven mod crafting system where you could farm resources to add specific stats that you wanted and then progressively upgrade them over time or something? It could still be a grind, but at the same time could have been an amazing source of customization/choice. 

[Stonehenge]

2 minutes ago, Borg1611 said:

Sometimes I wish game developers were just a tiny bit less obsessed with excessive multi-layered RNG. Re-rolling riven mods sounds about as exciting as re-rolling legendaries in the D3 cube (aka not at all). 

Would it have been insane to have some kind of riven mod crafting system where you could farm resources to add specific stats that you wanted and then progressively upgrade them over time or something? It could still be a grind, but at the same time could have been an amazing source of customization/choice. 

That sounds cool indeed.

[Santiak]

I actually like the Riven mods - with the one exception that @Brasten so elegently puts forward; how it interacts with later substantial changes to the overall system.

Now, we may have differing encyclopaedic definitions of what a "grind game" is, but to me, it's a game that involves the repeating action of attempting to acquire a high-powered item, or the like.
In ARPGs, you hunt the same item over and over, just to get a perfect or near-perfect - or at least a better - roll. You invest time into farming for it, and, since you're playing such a game, likely find such an acitvity enjoyable; hunting that feeling that's akin to the one you get when, in a treasure hunt, you finally, finally find what you were looking for, or in ARGs when you finally crack a code, discover a hidden link, or what not.

With Riven mods, we get exactly that: An excuse to keep on attempting to improve what might already be good, at the risk of possibly making it worse.

Are there changes they could make? Of course:
- The resource requirements could be lowered (to what amount would require time to collect data, of course).
- They could add increased costs that allow you to keep X amount of modifiers, say, keep 1 modifier => x2, keep 2 => x4, etc.
- Weighing of modifiers so you don't end up with too horrible modifiers, but can still get relatively bad ones; something that insures you'd always have some sort of reason to try and fit it, even if for a very niche build.

Seems like a good "grind game" end-game content to me, or at the least basis for it - and far from garbage, in my opinion.

 

Quote

 

Sometimes I wish game developers were just a tiny bit less obsessed with excessive multi-layered RNG. Re-rolling riven mods sounds about as exciting as re-rolling legendaries in the D3 cube (aka not at all). 

Would it have been insane to have some kind of riven mod crafting system where you could farm resources to add specific stats that you wanted and then progressively upgrade them over time or something? It could still be a grind, but at the same time could have been an amazing source of customization/choice. 

 

This, on the other hand, would be boring, in my opinion. There's no sense of anticipation, discovery, chance, or risk. Just a droning carrying out of chores to achieve a numbered mark. Cookie-clicker grinding, if you will.
The choice part I do agree with; personalization is part of Warframe's appeal, after all. What if "sacrificing" certain other resources could boost chances for a certain type of modifiers, without making it dead-set on which one it would be, exactly?

So, say, you put in 10000 Salvage and 10000 Alloy, and get an increased chance of, let's say, 10%, that one of the new modifiers would be Ammo related (reload speed, magazine size, etc.).

That way, you keep the chance- and risk-aspect, but add some level of customization and control, without going overboard in either direction. :)

Edited November 13, 2016 by Santiak

[PvtMaguire]

13 minutes ago, Stonehenge said:

It's just that in fact, all this thread for that :

You are just extremely offended. I mean, who told you to put all the new ressources you have just farm into a new mod that gives you positives and negatives stats ? Why didn't you just take a step back ? It's a fresh material, you rushed into it and now you are pissed off.

Well, guess what there is a risk factor in it, like someone told you before. That's all the fun part in it.

So it's garbage because you made a mistake ? I don't think so.

so its a mistake to invest kuva into the riven mod system ? which is what is totally intended for you to do - if its a mistake then no one would do it and therefore the system is broken and should be removed or changed - it shouldnt be a mistake to invest time into the game

[PvtMaguire]

7 minutes ago, Borg1611 said:

Sometimes I wish game developers were just a tiny bit less obsessed with excessive multi-layered RNG. Re-rolling riven mods sounds about as exciting as re-rolling legendaries in the D3 cube (aka not at all). 

Would it have been insane to have some kind of riven mod crafting system where you could farm resources to add specific stats that you wanted and then progressively upgrade them over time or something? It could still be a grind, but at the same time could have been an amazing source of customization/choice. 

exactly - in your version of the riven system you would actually be garunteed to win for investing into the game

 

[Stonehenge]

3 minutes ago, PvtMaguire said:

so its a mistake to invest kuva into the riven mod system ? which is what is totally intended for you to do - if its a mistake then no one would do it and therefore the system is broken and should be removed or changed - it shouldnt be a mistake to invest time into the game

It's a mistake to not think about what you are doing. I didnt spend any kuvat into any riven mod because i knew i was not aware of all i had to know. You just rushed it. Why not rushing, but dont blame others when you realize too late you wasted or lost something.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Stonehenge

[PvtMaguire]

2 minutes ago, Santiak said:

I actually like the Riven mods - with the one exception that @Brasten so elegently puts forward; how it interacts with later substantial changes to the overall system.

Now, we may have differing encyclopaedic definitions of what a "grind game" is, but to me, it's a game that involves the repeating action of attempting to acquire a high-powered item, or the like.
In ARPGs, you hunt the same item over and over, just to get a perfect or near-perfect - or at least a better - roll. You invest time into farming for it, and, since you're playing such a game, likely find such an acitvity enjoyable; hunting that feeling that's akin to the one you get when, in a treasure hunt, you finally, finally find what you were looking for, or in ARGs when you finally crack a code, discover a hidden link, or what not.

With Riven mods, we get exactly that: An excuse to keep on attempting to improve what might already be good, at the risk of possibly making it worse.

Are there changes they could make? Of course:
- The resource requirements could be lowered (to what amount would require time to collect data, of course).
- They could add increased costs that allow you to keep X amount of modifiers, say, keep 1 modifier => x2, keep 2 => x4, etc.
- Weighing of modifiers so you don't end up with too horrible modifiers, but can still get relatively bad ones; something that insures you'd always have some sort of reason to try and fit it, even if for a very niche build.

Seems like a good "grind game" end-game content to me, or at the least basis for it - and far from garbage, in my opinion.
 

in a grind game you grind to win and get items or experience or whatever your grinding for - in the riven system - you are grinding for a chance to loose

 

[PvtMaguire]

5 minutes ago, Stonehenge said:

It's a mistake to not think about what you are doing. I didnt spend any kuvat into any riven mod because i knew i was not aware of all i had to know. You just rushed it. Why not rushing, but dont blame others when you realize too late you wasted or lost something.

so knowing what you know now - that you could potentially loose out for investing kuva  in your mods - would you do it ? (also i knew what i needed o know and i was experimenting with the system to see how it all worked and i discovered that it did not work well)

 

Edited November 13, 2016 by PvtMaguire