SPOILERS: This is a question about the Lore :SPOILERS

[ZoneDymo]

So I know we dont know everything yet and I know DE is developing a story now when it was never meant to be there so we are running into some problems.

But, I just want to see what people here think on these questions.

ALSO OBVIOUSLY SPOILERS AHEAD:


Ok first the timeline:
- Orokin wanted to expand beyond our solar system.
- They send one ship with a crew to explore, the Zeriman Ten Zero.
- The ship was lost but later returned.
- Onboard nothing was found but the children and they now have crazy powers (very fantastic 4 like).
- The Orokin want the children dead, fearing the power but one individual does not want to do that and instead starts developing a means of potential living for the children through the concept of Transference.
- When its ermm found out? the children have not been killed, the one individual (margulis) is executed for...ermm..not going through with an order?

- The Orokin dont want a repeat of the Zeriman so they develop a new life-ishform to do the research, they dont care about these beings as long as they get their data, its a bit like "men creating intelligent machines and then they rise up against them" cliche.
- Those beings become known as the sentient and return to ermm waste their makers I guess.
- The orokin weapons are useless  because of how the sentients were build and how they evolved so the Orokin are to return to the basics of killing...gun and blade and had Balas develop the warframes for the children to fight the sentient.
(although I guess its a bit more then Gun and Blade otherwise the Dax soldiers would have been fine to right?)

Ok so questions:
- Why was Margulis executed? was she responsible for the execution of the children? was she in a position of power to frustrate the process?
- When did the infestation get made and why...and by whom? I mean as far as I can see the infestation affects everything BUT the sentient.....great weapon that was... 
- Considering from the video it seems Saryn was developed specifically to fight the infestation later, where were the children held for all this time? and why?
Like this is one of the more confusing things to me, why were the children not immediately executed after Margulis... you execute her because she idk got in the way...but then leave the children alive for I guess a decently long time (sentients returning, failing war, infestation failing, warframe development)?

And then more focussed on that, with Ember Prime's story it seems the warframes where made in a way to compliment the powers the children have gotten.
So was there a child who would wield electricity that became volt? one with extreme physical strength that became Rhino or Atlas etc etc etc?
The Ember girl burned Kahleen (by accident) so does that mean our focus powers are kinda nonsense as they do not relate to specific warframe powers? I mean we cannot burn enemies with focus abilities. (ok one focus tree looks a bit like Nyx but still)

And then the next question, the primes were the first and after that the regular once were made as some sort of mass production I guess but...who is controlling those then?
The War Within makes it look like we indeed have one warframe assigned to us, further strengthening the earlier idea of warframes being designed to compliment the child's powers.
But...again, so we have like 25 children who all got different powers, each got a warframe build specifically for them (The primes) and then later the standard version were made so who controls those? are there billions of children on the zeriman that now control all of those? if so, what made some get the primes and others the standard versions?



And a bit more specific and I guess less interesting, on Valkyr, did that child go mad from the torture?
And did the Lotus kinda knowingly just let that happen when she could have just disconnected the child now that we know its a somatic link and not a physical one?...

Just some of the stuff I dont get... :P

Edited November 21, 2016 by ZoneDymo

[trunks013]

put spoiler in the title just to be sure ^.^ 

[ZoneDymo]

2 minutes ago, trunks013 said:

put spoiler in the title just to be sure ^.^ 

done and done good sir

[Brachion]

Quote

- Why was Margulis executed? was she responsible for the execution of the children? was she in a position of power to frustrate the process?

She was executed because she resisted using the Tenno as a weapon. She was in charge of them after they were recovered from the Zariman.

Quote

- When did the infestation get made and why...and by whom? I mean as far as I can see the infestation affects everything BUT the sentient.....great weapon that was...

The Infestation was made by the Orokin as a weapon; we know that it was used to fight the Sentients, but it's unclear if it was made specifically for the Old War or not.

Quote

Considering from the video it seems Saryn was developed specifically to fight the infestation later, where were the children held for all this time? and why?
Like this is one of the more confusing things to me, why were the children not immediately executed after Margulis... you execute her because she idk got in the way...but then leave the children alive for I guess a decently long time (sentients returning, failing war, infestation failing, warframe development)?

The timeline gets a little fuzzy here; the records obtained during the Titania quest seem to indicate that Margulis was involved with the creation of the Warframes, but Rhino Prime's codex entry claims that the Tenno were kept in stasis until Transference was discovered.

Quote

And then more focussed on that, with Ember Prime's story it seems the warframes where made in a way to compliment the powers the children have gotten.
So was there a child who would wield electricity that became volt? one with extreme physical strength that became Rhino or Atlas etc etc etc?
The Ember girl burned Kahleen (by accident) so does that mean our focus powers are kinda nonsense as they do not relate to specific warframe powers? I mean we cannot burn enemies with focus abilities. (ok one focus tree looks a bit like Nyx but still)

The Madurai school is all about burning enemies with intense Void energy, and Operators can use Void blasts post-TWW, so any Tenno could have produced those burns. There's nothing to indicate that the "one Tenno = one Warframe" theory is true.

Quote

And then the next question, the primes were the first and after that the regular once were made as some sort of mass production I guess but...who is controlling those then?

The "normal" Warframes are modern replicas of the Primes created using substandard materials.

Quote

The War Within makes it look like we indeed have one warframe assigned to us, further strengthening the earlier idea of warframes being designed to compliment the child's powers.

Where exactly does it say this?

Quote

But...again, so we have like 25 children who all got different powers, each got a warframe build specifically for them (The primes) and then later the standard version were made so who controls those? are there billions of children on the zeriman that now control all of those? if so, what made some get the primes and others the standard versions?

See my previous answers.

[ZoneDymo]

Thanks for the response but many of the given answers dont really answer the questions:

- the infestation was created to fight the sentients, then they were created for the old war because, that was the old war, the orokin vs the sentients.
- Margulis start the research on transference, I believe it was never her intention to make warframes though, just frames a means for the children to live a reasonably normal life considering the circumstances. It was Balas later when the sentients and infestation came that continued the research and actually made them into warframes.  
You explain she was responsible for the children and thus had the burden of executing them and was executed herself for not going through with it, thats ok, but yeah that sitll does not explain why the children were not immediately killed after that. why keep them around when you are willing to kill one your own for doing the exact same thing?
- The War Within does not say that we have only one warframe, like I typed, it makes it look like we do.
The way our operator wants to get their warframe back, the way you are tapped into specifically through that one warframe, I mean if you had many I would expect the child to just look at some "closet" full of frames and pick a new one for the mission. It all seemed to me to be so focussed on the connection between the operated and the frame.
But that is just my interpretation.
- I know the normal versions are modern replicas, thats why I said "made as some mass production I assume". The question was, who is controlling those?
Read the phrases you quoted again pls.
(also interesting to figure out who made those modern equivalents)

[ragingdeamon]

I think the timeline you mentioned is wrong. 

the orokin wanted to expand beyond the solar system, and sent proto-Sentients to do it. note that they didn't send them trhough the Void: that would have killed them. that means that they were willing to wait a very long time for results. 

while waiting, the Zariman 10-0 incident happens. when recovered, Margulis tried to study a way to give the children a normal life through Transference, while orokin try to weaponize them. 

Margulis gets executed; the warframe project starts, but probably goes nowhere, or takes a very long time to execute. Tenno go into cryosleep. 

the Sentients attack the solar system. the infestation gets deployed, but the orokin fail to control it, and thus it's another problem to add to the pile. 

[speculation] seeing as they need a way to control the infestation, and remembering the initial weakness of the Sentients and transference, the tenno get used in the Old War.

Sometime here, Natah is born and sent to the Void in search of the Tenno. 

Using transference, arcaic weapons, void powers and warframes, the Sentients are defeated. or so it seems. 

Natah makes the Tenno kill the Orokin, then hides them in cryosleep. Natah becomes Lotus.

 

some notes:

IIRC, Transference was initally used for medical purpouses. Probably to give new bodies to people with uncurable diseases. Like a sudden case of Void powers.

no one knows for sure what exactly happens at the time the tenno enter the old war. it's all messy and what I wrote is my best guess. 

Margulis was executed because her will went against the will of the Seven. she wanted the tenno to live a normal life, going as far as making them forget about innate void powers. the seven wanted to use them as weapons, seeing their destructive potential, and in the hands of very easy to manipulate children.

The quest focuses on using one warframe specifically because that warfame is the key to the queens. also, our conscence is connected to the warframe at that particular moment. I know the phrase "My warframe, it's still up there" sounds like it implies that you have only one, but it doesn't. "I left my keys at [fill in a place]" doesn't mean I only have one copy of the keys.

Edited November 21, 2016 by ragingdeamon

[Syvarin]

2 hours ago, ZoneDymo said:

The way our operator wants to get their warframe back, the way you are tapped into specifically through that one warframe, I mean if you had many I would expect the child to just look at some "closet" full of frames and pick a new one for the mission. It all seemed to me to be so focussed on the connection between the operated and the frame.
But that is just my interpretation.

My roommate got the same impression, but I took it differently. You're concerned about your warframe because it's highly personal to you. It's not your only one, but it is yours.  Think of the great lengths people have gone to in order to get a missing dog or cat back instead of just getting a new one.  Besides, we couldn't just start transference with a new warframe and head back in because the fortress was moving and we wanted to save Teshin. There was no time to spare finding it and breaching the defenses again.

[ZoneDymo]

6 hours ago, ragingdeamon said:

snip

Well it says specifically that the Warframes where designed to fight in the old war, to win a battle the Orokin could not.
(and in the end they were victorious, afterwards they killed all Orokin on the ceremony as the Stalkers story says).
So to instantly see them as weapon potential when there is no threat (apart from these uncontrolled demi-god children themselves) is a bit odd to me.

Margulis gets executed; the warframe project starts, but probably goes nowhere, or takes a very long time to execute. Tenno go into cryosleep. 

Do we actually know this? why would it go nowhere and then suddenly it does later on?
And hell why would they kill Margulis when afterwards they cant do anything anyway and the research she was doing could actually help them with the purpose they had in mind?

 

The quest focuses on using one warframe specifically because that warfame is the key to the queens. also, our conscence is connected to the warframe at that particular moment. I know the phrase "My warframe, it's still up there" sounds like it implies that you have only one, but it doesn't. "I left my keys at [fill in a place]" doesn't mean I only have one copy of the keys.

5 hours ago, Syvarin said:

My roommate got the same impression, but I took it differently. You're concerned about your warframe because it's highly personal to you. It's not your only one, but it is yours.  Think of the great lengths people have gone to in order to get a missing dog or cat back instead of just getting a new one.  Besides, we couldn't just start transference with a new warframe and head back in because the fortress was moving and we wanted to save Teshin. There was no time to spare finding it and breaching the defenses again.

While its true what you say your analogies are off imo.
A Cat or Dog is a living being with a personality, a warframe is a suit so yeah you could easily grab a new one for the journey if it would help which...in the case of a warframe it damn well would.
Keys again sure "I left my keys at X" does not mean its your only set of keys for anything, it just becomes some random object you want to retrieve but again I have to stress, why would you not take a warframe to go get it.

The interpretation that the base is moving and that there was not time to spare breaching the defenses is quite a shot in the dark imo to not take a warframe with you for a fight that is undoubtedly coming especially taking into account our operator had no idea what would happen is crazy risky.
Hell Teshin could have just thrown his control disk again and...well yeah good stuff...., while coming with a new warframe might be a suprise and you could prepare before entering the room.
I find the risk that is being taken if this warframe was your one warframe with all the future need you have for it to be much more logical then if you had a bunch of back ups you could take with you for the mission which would probably give you a much higher chance of succes.

Also It does bring me back to the question of who is controlling all the warframes, of many we know the acquiring is this super special odd event so their cannot be multiple children controlling that warfame thought lost to the ages, like Limbo, Chroma, Atlas, Mirage....hell basically any warframe with a quest attached to it.
Which would to me mean a lot of warframes cannot be in your hands lore wise which again makes me more lean to the idea you only have one as all the other children from the zeriman ten zero.

Edited November 22, 2016 by ZoneDymo

[ragingdeamon]

31 minutes ago, ZoneDymo said:

While its true what you say your analogies are off imo.
A Cat or Dog is a living being with a personality, a warframe is a suit so yeah you could easily grab a new one for the journey if it would help which...in the case of a warframe it damn well would.
Keys again sure "I left my keys at X" does not mean its your only set of keys for anything, it just becomes some random object you want to retrieve but again I have to stress, why would you not take a warframe to go get it.

The interpretation that the base is moving and that there was not time to spare breaching the defenses is quite a shot in the dark imo to not take a warframe with you for a fight that is undoubtedly coming especially taking into account our operator had no idea what would happen is crazy risky.
 

remember mods? we only have one of those. you would bring an unmodded warframe, and probably not your best weapons since you brought them with the other warframe, to search for and infiltrate a fortress that doesn't want you in? the Queen might have let you in once, but I doubt that we will see them again soon, since we don't just go and kill the Worm now. also, the only reason why we could infiltrate the fortress before was Tenshin, and I doubt that he would live long enough to give us a second shot. 

that warframe is already inside the chamber, has our best mods and weapons, and is already ready to fight. as for the disk, the operator can shoot it off. 
don't tell me that it can't because it blocks us: it didn't block us before, the scepter did. 

 

31 minutes ago, ZoneDymo said:

Margulis gets executed; the warframe project starts, but probably goes nowhere, or takes a very long time to execute. Tenno go into cryosleep. 

Do we actually know this? why would it go nowhere and then suddenly it does later on?
And hell why would they kill Margulis when afterwards they cant do anything anyway and the research she was doing could actually help them with the purpose they had in mind?

no we don't know. the entire inception of warframes is a mystery and will continue being a mystery until DE spills the beans. as I said, it is my best shot at it. 
seeing it now, the theory I presented doesn't actually make sense, since Silvana created Titania right after Margulis was executed, the warframe project was a success. it probably didn't find an application, or maybe Ballas had regrets. but it's all speculation.

and as I said, they killed Margulis on the charge of high treason. she was a pretty famous scientist, and they didn't want her as an enemy, so they removed her. they then assembled a group of scientists to take her place. 

Edited November 22, 2016 by ragingdeamon

[Draemon]

2 hours ago, ZoneDymo said:

The interpretation that the base is moving and that there was not time to spare breaching the defenses is quite a shot in the dark imo to not take a warframe with you for a fight that is undoubtedly coming especially taking into account our operator had no idea what would happen is crazy risky.

During the quest it definitely says that the base has moved after you wake up from the first little Teshin adventure through the death cave. So yeah, it was much faster to get back by using the warframe that was already there and more likely to result in Teshin surviving vs having to somehow find the fortress once again.

[Mell]

I think the reason you go get your warframe back is because you still have Transference with it so you will eventually lose your real body to the snake lady

[ZoneDymo]

On 11/22/2016 at 3:25 AM, Draemon said:

During the quest it definitely says that the base has moved after you wake up from the first little Teshin adventure through the death cave. So yeah, it was much faster to get back by using the warframe that was already there and more likely to result in Teshin surviving vs having to somehow find the fortress once again.

thats another thing I dont get, why would Teshin be killed?
He is a powerful...well lets be honest, SLAVE to them and a good ally to have.

And how was he at fault anyway, he did not even understand that the Queens wanted the child and not the frame so he was misinformed more then anything.

[ragingdeamon]

3 hours ago, ZoneDymo said:

thats another thing I dont get, why would Teshin be killed?
He is a powerful...well lets be honest, SLAVE to them and a good ally to have.

And how was he at fault anyway, he did not even understand that the Queens wanted the child and not the frame so he was misinformed more then anything.

the queens blamed him for the continuity fail. and he has been a very inefficent slave, questioning orders and almost outright disobeying, since he would be more than capable to ambush any Tenno and bring him to the queens. making him go on missions would be dangerous with this premises. also killing him would be a very good blow on the Tenno, since he is our conclave master. 

[ZoneDymo]

On 11/23/2016 at 10:55 AM, ragingdeamon said:

the queens blamed him for the continuity fail. and he has been a very inefficent slave, questioning orders and almost outright disobeying, since he would be more than capable to ambush any Tenno and bring him to the queens. making him go on missions would be dangerous with this premises. also killing him would be a very good blow on the Tenno, since he is our conclave master. 

Well still, an inefficient slave seems better then no slave at all and he seems a way better slave to have then any grineer.
Hell let him live and have him claim to be freed and he could destroy us from the inside out, hell how many Dax Soldiers are their even still....again, seems silly wasteful to me.
And honestly he did not disobey, he had not choice as long as the queens held the scepter, he did everything they asked to the best of his understanding, outright trying to kill you in the end.

And the conclave is something we only have because of Teshin and his personal believes, its not like we really NEED the conclave.