Operators

[StabbyTentacles]

On 11/23/2016 at 7:13 AM, Shockwave- said:

You are not alone. I play video games to be, well me... doing something else. I played until 2nd dream just that way. Vicarious action. The DE basically said nah, you are a kid playing a video game.... what a let down. It dovetailed nicely with the unlimited revive change to explain why you could revive 100 times a day without consequences. I prefered actual death consequences and wanted to avoid it rather than "let me die i need my carrier back" because now who cares, you aren't letting your buddy die, it's just a puppet, they will restart in a minute like a blue screened PC.

I despised 2nd dream for the story it told. It took away all semblance of escapism that video games are usually played for. The saving grace was it could be 100% ignored by players who wanted to play a game by putting themselves in the protagonist role.

TWW now forces you to play as the operator for Kuva... and I forsee more and more as they tweak the operator system. I still try to ignore it, but that makes Kuva missions seems like game breaking chores that have to be suffered through. I'll still try to ignore it as much as possible and play the game as my badass space ninja self. I just wish DE hadn't caved to the prepubesent hero a la harry potter /hunger games/divergent/ maze runner/the 100, etc etc. the trope is getting played out.

On this, we're in comprehensive agreement.

'It took away all semblance of escapism that video games are usually played for. The saving grace was it could be 100% ignored by players who wanted to play a game by putting themselves in the protagonist role.'

Tenno went from warframes to Divergent, maze running space wizards. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

 

[JalakBali]

12 hours ago, ultimatumcore said:

You're talking about making the operator better. Whereas my point with this post was that Operators should be removed entirely. They break the game immersion.

Correction: they're breaking your immersion.

I originally roleplayed my Operator as a Void-born tiny space squid latching on inside Warframes' heads. Your headcanon is against my headcanon, man.

[StabbyTentacles]

4 hours ago, JalakBali said:

Correction: they're breaking your immersion.

I originally roleplayed my Operator as a Void-born tiny space squid latching on inside Warframes' heads. Your headcanon is against my headcanon, man.

Tiny space squid latching/hooked into the inside of the Warframes' heads, I'll take that over the  Divergent, maze running space wizards, emos from the moon, any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.  

Space cephalopods with usually long, tentacles. gimme gimme  

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by StabbyTentacles

[NanoVega]

15 hours ago, JalakBali said:

Correction: they're breaking your immersion.

I originally roleplayed my Operator as a Void-born tiny space squid latching on inside Warframes' heads. Your headcanon is against my headcanon, man.

Operators aren't tiny head squids. They break your immersion just as much, if not more so.

[Angrados]

23 minutes ago, ultimatumcore said:

Operators aren't tiny head squids. They break your immersion just as much, if not more so.

What he's trying to get at is that it's nonsensical to claim they break YOUR personal sense of immersion when clearly there are a ton of other people who are just peachy with the change in focus. I feel plenty immersed in the game, mostly because the way that the Lore was laid out made sense to me from a storytelling perspective and I got in on the action rather late into the development of the game (to put that in perspective, I started playing a little after Christmas of this last year, so my 1 year anniversary is coming up). While I'm not saying your opinion is invalid, I do think that it's a little shortsighted to claim that the entire direction they've been going in for the last year+ needs to be reversed because it doesn't jam with your own personal headcanon is... well. I don't really need to say much more than that to make my point clear.

[0zryel]

Well Im amusing that the operator should be an avatar representing you the player? The Warframe is just living armor an extension of your will... TO me it was very transparent...

Spoiler

Example: I never use a female looking Warframe because I saw the warframe as an avatar of myself how would I be in Warframe universe... I would never use female clothing or female anything because Im average guy who likes guy stuff... so even before the operator appeared I had a define persona I was role playing... "A lone silent tenno who dint remember anything except being a male harden veteran soldier...awoken one's more to do battle by a familiar voice. He knew the ugly faces of war and what was needed to be done to win them...so he became a General to the SM and an Assassin for the RV. To him this syndicates seem natural,  while the others seems like useless philosophies, that where convenient but added little in the end to win a war" Etc...Etc...

Maybe that's why it has not bother me so much, I accepted and adapted my playing to this universe, getting pleasant and unpleasant surprises as I would in real life? You never get what you want in real life or in any game you rarely get what you want always... this is the only game I play that actually TRIES to please all his thousands upon thousands of players! I really admire the community manager that are task to gather this much info in order to filter it and give it to the Devs in a way that pleases most. 

Im kinda still wishing I could make my male operator as buff as Rhino but its a good start... Just be patient... the story is far from over we have a lot to grow up too... And who knows? Maybe Umbra is the next evolution of a combine operator Void powers or Schools and the chosen Warframe abilities in one...? Lets just wait a bit and see where DE takes us. Patient Tenno lets ride this to where DE takes it 

Edited November 24, 2016 by 0zryel

[StabbyTentacles]

Ditch operators, embrace Mimics! 

 

[BlackArchas]

On 11/22/2016 at 1:33 AM, ultimatumcore said:

Respectable. I just kind of hate that they don't feel like they belong to the player. You can toggle the operator messages off, but there's still that kid sitting in the back of your ship, managing your focus. My friends and I used to have a joke that that kid is just the mechanic of the ship, not actually anyone of importance. I might go back to that head canon, but in the mean time, it's incredibly unfair of DE to add in this thing with no choice involved. They're telling us who our warframes are, not letting us imagine for ourselves, and that's kind of a horrible idea, considering the million different ways people can feel about something.

 

Its different for Samus, she's a defined character, belonging to the person who wrote her. But these warframes used to be ours, and honestly aren't anymore.

 

Im not asking you to make me feel better about it or anything, this post is mostly here to tell DE that there are still people who resent this change, if they even listen to the forums anymore, that is. Hell, the entire RP forum refutes Operators entirely. It's kinda funny.

This is why I agree with you. I personally dont mind the kid, but some people do. Allow the player to choose the 'operator' they want, from a choices within the second dream and war within that have a effect.

Some ideas?:

A cephalon that decided he wished not to serve, but to be served and managed to take control of a transference port?

Human; Kid/Teen/Adult

Warframes developed sentience life sentients? Manage to install a neural sentry & 'become corrupted' and cable of self action via some experiment from the orokin so they can dispose of the children?

Orokin who survived the fall, but wanted to still hold power?

Even a frickin infested

I could list on & on of potential ideas.

My personal idea of the perfect fix would have the cinematic quests have lineages of choice that displayed what would happen, but wont spoil it. For example maybe your operator wasn't on the Zaramin when S*** hit the fan, but an orokin/human on a derelict left for dead. You were able to survive through mastery of the void, but still succumbed to the 'infestation'. This player would have a unique lineage from that point forward. Another thing is if the player should be able to do if they are unhappy with the end result is to start from the 2nd dream and explore all the possibilities. I'm sure what I stated has some lore inaccuracies, but frankly the lore isn't coherent anymore. Besides whoever the hell thinks the golden guys wouldn't figure out how to be able to control the transference from the start is a fool. They built the warframes, they wont make the same mistake leaving out the 'off' or 'override' switch they did with the sentients. But then that pesky cephalon found a way to control those master switches? You see my point yet? The player can choice their story with a host of options and can continue to choose throughout the rest of the quests, and even better, those choices linking together.

This is what I consider to be the complete fix.

Edited November 25, 2016 by BlackArchas

[NanoVega]

7 hours ago, Angrados said:

What he's trying to get at is that it's nonsensical to claim they break YOUR personal sense of immersion when clearly there are a ton of other people who are just peachy with the change in focus. I feel plenty immersed in the game, mostly because the way that the Lore was laid out made sense to me from a storytelling perspective and I got in on the action rather late into the development of the game (to put that in perspective, I started playing a little after Christmas of this last year, so my 1 year anniversary is coming up). While I'm not saying your opinion is invalid, I do think that it's a little shortsighted to claim that the entire direction they've been going in for the last year+ needs to be reversed because it doesn't jam with your own personal headcanon is... well. I don't really need to say much more than that to make my point clear.

I'd agree with your point if it was just me. But out of the vast majority of players I've met, checking on region chat weekly and on different continents, I've found that, sure, five or six people will always say the Operators are alright, another couple will say they like them, but they're so swamped out by people who dislike the Operators that I'm struggling to understand why it isn't a choice. I'm not going to pretend I know how everyone feels about this, and I mistakenly said that everyone definitively dislikes them, but I honestly mean that almost all players I've asked have said they're at least kind of dumb, and at most ranted for the next seven minutes on how dumb Operators are in terms of game direction.

The way I feel, is that it's unfair to not have a choice. This is the way forward. DE says, and then people who dislike them get to put extra effort into the game to like it, which is pretty much mathematically bad for marketing.

It's alright to break headcanons, I'd encourage it. If it somehow enhanced the game. While this seems to be just a step backward. You are no longer a space ninja. You're playing as a golem controlled by some idiot teenager with super powers. This calls into question every action the Tenno have made, this shows that they're honestly rather stupid. Things we thought are right are no longer right, and DE appear to have done that without even considering the consequences, which is frankly starting to be a rather worrying trend.

Edited November 25, 2016 by ultimatumcore

[Angrados]

3 hours ago, ultimatumcore said:

I'd agree with your point if it was just me. But out of the vast majority of players I've met, checking on region chat weekly and on different continents, I've found that, sure, five or six people will always say the Operators are alright, another couple will say they like them, but they're so swamped out by people who dislike the Operators that I'm struggling to understand why it isn't a choice. I'm not going to pretend I know how everyone feels about this, and I mistakenly said that everyone definitively dislikes them, but I honestly mean that almost all players I've asked have said they're at least kind of dumb, and at most ranted for the next seven minutes on how dumb Operators are in terms of game direction.

The way I feel, is that it's unfair to not have a choice. This is the way forward. DE says, and then people who dislike them get to put extra effort into the game to like it, which is pretty much mathematically bad for marketing.

It's alright to break headcanons, I'd encourage it. If it somehow enhanced the game. While this seems to be just a step backward. You are no longer a space ninja. You're playing as a golem controlled by some idiot teenager with super powers. This calls into question every action the Tenno have made, this shows that they're honestly rather stupid. Things we thought are right are no longer right, and DE appear to have done that without even considering the consequences, which is frankly starting to be a rather worrying trend.

You're not the only one who isn't a fan of how they characterized the Tenno, especially since the Tenno are supposed to be several hundred year old war vets. There of course could be reasons why they don't remember it and still act like children (one that occurred to me was that they weren't aware of being manipulated by the Orokin, which would make sense) but on its face it did feel like a divestment from the character. Furthermore, the ingame dialogue from the characters needs work... honestly, the Operator dialogue in missions makes me cringe, not because their voice bothers me, but because it's just... really, really contrived. There's no character development, the Operator says the same things over and over again, uses incredibly cringy catchphrases during the middle of battle ("ready to turn these robots into scrap metal?" springs to mind), and the way that they very rarely add to what's going on around them in terms of the action and the so-called "plot" of the missions makes me dislike the way that they were implemented. I'm not saying they don't need work, but axing them entirely, especially since the last two years of development has headed in this direction, feels like a rather extreme response. 

 

EDIT: To touch on your last point about things we thought are right are no longer right, I'm not sure what you're referring to. I think you're referring to the idea that the Tenno are somehow the good guys (which, by the way, they aren't and were never intended to be) in the system fighting the evil Corpus and Grineer. This has never, ever been the case--the Tenno and the Lotus are an organization loyal only to themselves, and those who are willing to support their endeavors. That's it. There's no moral connection there between what they do and the moral, "right" thing to do. The one exception I can think of would be the Assault mission in the newest tileset, in which you save a colony (and maybe the mission in Vor's Prize where you retrieve the Nav segment), but either of those are too vague to merely classify as being made for good or bad reasons. 

Edited November 25, 2016 by Angrados
Wasn't done yet.

[StabbyTentacles]

Of course the 'new' Tenno/Operators are good, haven't you seen Larry Potter/Hunger flames/Divergent/Maze Runner?*

*Harry Potter/Hunger Games/Divergent/Maze Runner were all inspired by Warframe's Tenno/Operators, DE are that original.

[Othergrunty]

From what i see you speak from the heart of many other players, several who have infact quit (either permanently or for the time being) the game. Your frustration has been expressed before by others, thankfully you are tactfull about it.

Personaly. The Operators are not what i would have picked as identity for the Tenno either.

But DE has made their move and it's here to stay. That's the downside of joining a game while it's still mid development.

[Tsoe]

i am glad we are the operator..

 

now i can use female looking frame cause i am sure its just an armor design

Edited November 25, 2016 by Tsoe

[Toran]

I don't mind the operators. From the beginning of Warframe it was clear that there was some kind of operator behind the Warframe - either inside or outside, controlling it remotely. The question then was how and when will they will reveal it. I'm fine with the way DE did it (I liked Ender's Game).

The only things I don't like about the operators is the way they're integrated into the gameplay - it feels so ... imposed and not in flow with the general gameplay: the focus power, but more so the new "materialisation" skill, just to collect some Kuva... it's so uninspired, not to speak of the repetitive voice lines during missions that totally not sound like a hundreds-year-old war veteran.

[9HTU]

lol why do you hate the operator? he/she is the one that controls your warframe

[Toran]

40 minutes ago, 9HTU said:

lol why do you hate the operator? he/she is the one that controls your warframe

That's the whole point. It destroys his escapist immersion of being the operator himself. Now he's just the dude who plays the kid that plays the puppets.
(personal note: gotta watch Tropic Thunder again...)

Edited November 25, 2016 by Toran

[NanoVega]

7 hours ago, Angrados said:

 

 

EDIT: To touch on your last point about things we thought are right are no longer right, I'm not sure what you're referring to. I think you're referring to the idea that the Tenno are somehow the good guys (which, by the way, they aren't and were never intended to be) in the system fighting the evil Corpus and Grineer. This has never, ever been the case--the Tenno and the Lotus are an organization loyal only to themselves, and those who are willing to support their endeavors. That's it. There's no moral connection there between what they do and the moral, "right" thing to do. The one exception I can think of would be the Assault mission in the newest tileset, in which you save a colony (and maybe the mission in Vor's Prize where you retrieve the Nav segment), but either of those are too vague to merely classify as being made for good or bad reasons. 

By "right" I mean in the way that the Tenno are the balance keepers. They're the ones that are supposed to keep everything in check in the origin system. They're not supposed to be self serving at all. They're made to be inherently good, and always have been, we're the 'good' guys in the system, especially when compared to the alternatives. The Tenno being children, who don't, in fact, remember anything about the old war, only their time on the zariman, means that maybe my warframe committing mass genocide of hundreds of thousands of enemies might have been a temper tantrum. Having the operator around trvializes everything the Tenno used to stand for.

Honestly the development of Tenno came out of no where. With the exception of Ember Prime's codex entry, there was no mention at all of such a thing, and believe me, I was there, watching all the lore that I could. And then suddenly. BAM! Super powered teenagers choosing their ninja way. I'm not going to say it's the worst thing ever, but if I had my operator and Ordis hanging over a cliff, and had the strength to lift both of them back up, I'd drop my operator to get a better grip on ordis, which kinda says something, considering how many people muted ordis the first chance they got.

[NanoVega]

1 hour ago, Toran said:

I don't mind the operators. From the beginning of Warframe it was clear that there was some kind of operator behind the Warframe - either inside or outside, controlling it remotely. The question then was how and when will they will reveal it. I'm fine with the way DE did it (I liked Ender's Game).

The only things I don't like about the operators is the way they're integrated into the gameplay - it feels so ... imposed and not in flow with the general gameplay: the focus power, but more so the new "materialisation" skill, just to collect some Kuva... it's so uninspired, not to speak of the repetitive voice lines during missions that totally not sound like a hundreds-year-old war veteran.

They don't remember much of anything except arriving in the origin system. We've besically got stupid hormonal teenagers in control of weapons of mass destruction.

And honestly, they could have done it better, without encroaching on the relatability of the warframes. 

Imagine the operator simply provided energy that he warframes need in order to move, but the warframes still had personalities themselves, carrying out the operator's orders because he powers them.

I don't hate the concept of the operator. I hate that the operator replaces all the characterization i thought the warframes had. Imagine your operator standing the way mirage stands in her noble stance, blowing kisses and stuff. That's just... Horrifying... Right?

[Toran]

5 minutes ago, ultimatumcore said:

They don't remember much of anything except arriving in the origin system. We've besically got stupid hormonal teenagers in control of weapons of mass destruction.

And honestly, they could have done it better, without encroaching on the relatability of the warframes. 

Imagine the operator simply provided energy that he warframes need in order to move, but the warframes still had personalities themselves, carrying out the operator's orders because he powers them.

I don't hate the concept of the operator. I hate that the operator replaces all the characterization i thought the warframes had. Imagine your operator standing the way mirage stands in her noble stance, blowing kisses and stuff. That's just... Horrifying... Right?

Not especially horrifying, no - it's the about same level as a male Warcraft player letting his female Night Elf blow kisses - it never gave me the Col. Kurtz.

[NanoVega]

Just now, Toran said:

Not especially horrifying, no - it's the about same level as a male Warcraft player letting his female Night Elf blow kisses - it never gave me the Col. Kurtz.

I guess you and I have different reactionary tendencies. Considering my operator is male, I can't understand why he'd act like that, but that's apparently the way it is, and that shows how completely unrelatable the operator is to me. My choices would definitely never be the same as theirs, even though I'm actually the one choosing the Operators choices. I've gotten tested, and certified as not crazy, so I have an issue with the operator, and you don't, which leads me to wonder what either of us are still doing here.

[BlackArchas]

What I personally want is a deeper story of coherent and well written lore. Where kuria are accurate, codex has some meaning & provides lore behind all the enemies. Cephalon fragments actually have a higher meaning then Ordis's quest to kill the Orokin. I want them to be threads in a spider web, they all connect in some way or another and serve a purpose to advance the story or characters within them. This is a very difficult achievement if all you do is continuously pump out content at a high rate because of the lack of a immersive endgame. Basically, DE needs to look at ALL the lore in Warframe and organize it into a coherent plot they want, hopefully with some kind a of choice system for the player (Like I mentioned above) in the cinematic quests. People who care about the story have options if they dislike the end result by replaying the quest(s). (I have some radical ideas for this that I might post some other time). Ultimately, player retention is important, and any extra effort to retain as much players as possible should be provided.

[0zryel]

16 hours ago, StabbyTentacles said:

Ditch operators, embrace Mimics! 

 

Omg wow that looks so cool! I wish the new Infested Warframe that's coming out, look, feels and was as fierce as this when you play him!!!! We will have to wait and see how it turns out.

[NanoVega]

On 11/24/2016 at 5:24 PM, 0zryel said:

Well Im amusing that the operator should be an avatar representing you the player? The Warframe is just living armor an extension of your will... TO me it was very transparent...

  Hide contents

Example: I never use a female looking Warframe because I saw the warframe as an avatar of myself how would I be in Warframe universe... I would never use female clothing or female anything because Im average guy who likes guy stuff... so even before the operator appeared I had a define persona I was role playing... "A lone silent tenno who dint remember anything except being a male harden veteran soldier...awoken one's more to do battle by a familiar voice. He knew the ugly faces of war and what was needed to be done to win them...so he became a General to the SM and an Assassin for the RV. To him this syndicates seem natural,  while the others seems like useless philosophies, that where convenient but added little in the end to win a war" Etc...Etc...

Maybe that's why it has not bother me so much, I accepted and adapted my playing to this universe, getting pleasant and unpleasant surprises as I would in real life? You never get what you want in real life or in any game you rarely get what you want always... this is the only game I play that actually TRIES to please all his thousands upon thousands of players! I really admire the community manager that are task to gather this much info in order to filter it and give it to the Devs in a way that pleases most. 

Im kinda still wishing I could make my male operator as buff as Rhino but its a good start... Just be patient... the story is far from over we have a lot to grow up too... And who knows? Maybe Umbra is the next evolution of a combine operator Void powers or Schools and the chosen Warframe abilities in one...? Lets just wait a bit and see where DE takes us. Patient Tenno lets ride this to where DE takes it 

 

You've managed to miss the entirety of the point of this post. What I'm not looking for is a better operator. What I'm looking for is a removal or change to the operator that means the warframes are not under the operator's control, at least not directly. Since operators take away from characterization that the warframes themselves previously had.

[0zryel]

12 hours ago, ultimatumcore said:

 

You've managed to miss the entirety of the point of this post. What I'm not looking for is a better operator. What I'm looking for is a removal or change to the operator that means the warframes are not under the operator's control, at least not directly. Since operators take away from characterization that the warframes themselves previously had.

I din't miss your point, I think you din't get mine. What I was trying to say is that The Operator IS the Warframe, this is the lore and its not going to change, at least for now... 

Don't believe me this is information taken from the game it self

Spoiler

 

...This is who you really are. A Tenno, more than human... but once a child like any other.

—The Lotus

The Operator is the Tenno represented by the player, a young human whose powers are the source of their Warframe's abilities. Operators control the Warframes through a process known as Transference, which uses a device known as a Somatic Link to transfer the Operator's consciousness and powers into their Warframes that they control as a surrogate body.

 

Your just going to have to accept it and embrace it as it is, until DE decides change it...Still one does never know... DE is always reading into the community Post reactions and making changes to the lore and story depending on many Tenno feedback ... also your denial of the Operator in game story, would make an interesting story, it reminds me of the Stalker lore yet I don't know why...lol 

Edited November 27, 2016 by 0zryel

[Shockwave-]

On 11/23/2016 at 6:08 PM, NinthAria said:

My point was that this is something they've clearly been thinking about for a long time, not a snap decision they made to cater to trends. If your argument is that they're copycatting or caving to popular culture because Warframe includes a teenage protagonist and elements of a coming-of-age story, then I don't know what to tell you besides those kinds of stories are hundreds, even thousands of years old.

That's not a reasonable inference, again considering all the references predate warframe. The premise i was objecting to has been done to death, by all those things (including evagelion, though being that far back, evangelion was early in the trend and isn't responsible for wearing it out), and all those things predate warframe. I'd like to have seen them go a different way.