I. Hate. Wallrunning.

[NydusTemplar]

I hate the level 7-8 test.  It seriously makes me not want to play this game.

 

Wall Running is so damn twitchy and unreliable, and this is -literally- the first and only time you are required (as in forced) to do multiple connecting wall runs.

 

What idiot thought "Oh, hey, I know, we'll put this test (the first time ever required to use a certain mechanic) and NOT give unlimited retries as they attempt to get used to it.  Oh, AND put a 24 hour cooldown on the test so that they can be perpetually rusty and never get passed it."

 

Smart.

 

Is the level 20-21 test spawning with 50 Scorpions standing around you with the objective to not trip?

 

You know what, THAT would be better than this.  Because at least you can use some valid tactic involving juking while killing them or a Warframe Power or bring a Rhino or SOMETHING.

 

And the excuse of 'well, it isn't required' doesn't cut it.  No where in this game is there a place where you must connect multiple wall runs to proceed.  Even in the Orokin Void, the 'parcour' rooms, you don't have to do that.  You just have to know how to do wall runs and then not fly off into weird angles.  You have to be familiar with the concepts and be able to execute them once.  Once.

 

And, if it wasn't a 24 hour test.  If I could bash my head against it repeatedly, that'd be something.  If it took me back to the beginning of the course after a certain number of failures to do the whole thing over or something, again, that would be different.  But no, it completely drains my will to continue playing because I know that I cannot make anymore forward progress without it.  And one errant misclick or not having my camera at the precise angle or slipping my finger off the run button and YOU MUST WAIT AGAIN.

 

There's no fun in that.  None.  I won't feel accomplished by completing it, I'll feel a reduction in rage.  But then I'll just have to look at the wiki and know that I'll have to go thru all this again next mastery rank.

 

Yeah yeah.  Butthurt.  Yeah yeah. Trolls.  This is my feedback on the matter.  In the feedback forum.  Shocking.

[JusticeJack]

While i think the test should stay the same,you are right to be upset,because in game there is NO good way to train "connecting wallruns".Sure,you can  try a lot of parkour,but not the same required by the test,we really could use a "practice" mode.

[ValhaHazred]

The only place I can think of is that one Asteroid mine room with the two levels, catwalks and lava floor. You can make connected wallruns there.

[Grimicus]

Man I wish my level 7 - 8 test was this :(  I just got kill a bunch of guys.

[Meenmu]

Well, the 24-hour cooldown is pretty dumb, I'll give you that.

[Yorinar]

After you respawn, if you shoot the first ball again before you kneel, you get another try. Maybe that's an exploit now that I think about it.

Took me a total of 7 days before I passed this test. Many deaths were $&*&*#(%& crap like coming off a wall and sailing past the vertical wall. Or hitting the vertical wall and the wallwalk not catching. Also you can slide off the platform sometimes for no apparent reason. All of this is rage-inducing, but when I finally accomplished it, I definitely felt good about it.

[P1RAT3]

I had no problem with this test. If you'd like me to show you how to wall run Nydus, I can. I'm quite good at it. That being said, I recommend taking a shotgun [if you can't aim at the balls while running] and a longsword [for air mobility purposes]. 

 

If you find yourself overlaunching from a wall, or not getting close enough to it, a mid air slideslash to put yourself over the platform coupled with letting go of the slash maneuver and tapping E to slam downwards and void the roll will work wonders for you here.

[Ghobe]

You're right, it's never needed to proceed. However, that doesn't mean that certain areas don't remain inaccessible to you if you don't know how to multi-wall run.

 

The Corpus defense involving the broken elevator is one, although there is a work around.

The Corpus ship with the large work room sometimes has a locked room that you have to perform several wall runs in an elevator shaft and land on a vent that's laying down to get inside.

The Corpus(Corpus why u so special?) special exploration room that requires a MINIMAL of 3 wall runs to get to the top of, even with maxed rush. Depending on the base speed of your frame and if you have no rush, it can easily require 5 wall runs to get to the top of it.

The Grineer Galleon room with the 2 big sphere things and pipes running up above. Although not heavy multi-running it's another parkour dealy.

The huge Grineer Galleon room with the universal map has a 2nd floor of catwalks and one of the little mini-hallways you have to understand how to wall-run around a corner to get into it.

 

There's 5 examples of actively using it. Are these areas necessary to hit up? Not really. Are they rewarding? Usually(especially that last Corpus one, with 6 lockers and 5 storage containers waiting for you).

 

Though with your argument of being forced to do something you never are forced to do in game, i could make the same argument to being forced into using the guns or melee, since neither are forced on you in this game.

[Denxi]

Really valid criticism IMO.

 

Even just a minor improvement would be adding in even more hidden locations that could only be reached by chaining movement skills, while still allowing players the ability to go through the game without even touching "advanced" movement. That way you still get trained by the game to perform them if you're investing time into really learning and exploring the game and environment, and IMO that's what the higher ranks should recognize and reward: investing time into understanding and learning the game.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Denxi

[vieuxchat]

I play with a controller and got that test at my second attempt.

I'm not a good player. Chose a warframe slow enough to let you some time to aim for the next wall run. nd give your frame a lot of stamina and regen of stamina. (For instance Rhino + marathon + fast regen)

Edited July 2, 2013 by vieuxchat

[gell]

The 24-hour cooldown is unnecessary to me, but otherwise I think the tests are supposed to weed people out, as "masters" of that rank. It's something you should be a master of, and since nothing is unlocked at rank 8, it's nothing more than showing you did pass the test. If this test hindered you from playing more of the game, I'd feel for you. But it doesn't, and it therefore is a good litmus test of your mastery of all things.

 

It's a test of mastery, and you haven't yet shown you are a master of rank 8.

 

Btw, I am very good at wall running and the tricks in this game, so I don't believe it's twitchy or unreliable. I might feel like I failed beyond control maybe once out of 100 tries.  However, a co-worker of mine has immense trouble wall running. I've noticed it is a combination of manual dexterity, keyboard or gamepad layout, and a bit of stubbornness to work with the system (not everything can be made how you want it, how you theorize what is most logical to do). WF does have a bit of work in it for this to become perfect control-wise, but it's mostly there, and if you can't handle how this 3rd person shooter/melee/acrobatics game works, then you can just walk. The reason why it's not required to progress in the actual levels is because some people do suck at it.

 

But it makes total sense in a mastery test.

[gell]

Really valid criticism IMO.

 

Even just a minor improvement would be adding in even more hidden locations that could only be reached by chaining movement skills, while still allowing players the ability to go through the game without even touching "advanced" movement. That way you still get trained by the game to perform them if you're investing time into really learning and exploring the game and environment, and IMO that's what the higher ranks should recognize and reward: investing time into understanding and learning the game.

 

They should add in more optional routes and whatnot (it'd be fun), but I feel the game has a ton already for those who are good at the acrobatics. I multiple wall fling through a lot of levels, not touching the ground quite a bit of the time (if I'm not fighting).

 

So I don't think his criticism is valid, in terms of it being part of a mastery test when it's not required in real maps. It shouldn't be required in real maps, or else people like him, or people worse than him, would never finish the level and it really would become a true progression wall.

[NydusTemplar]

They should add in more optional routes and whatnot (it'd be fun), but I feel the game has a ton already for those who are good at the acrobatics. I multiple wall fling through a lot of levels, not touching the ground quite a bit of the time (if I'm not fighting).

 

So I don't think his criticism is valid, in terms of it being part of a mastery test when it's not required in real maps. It shouldn't be required in real maps, or else people like him, or people worse than him, would never finish the level and it really would become a true progression wall.

 

You may be missing the point.  This test requires something a player is never directly introduced to at any point in the game.  If you play all the levels, there are only a few points where wall running is required.

 

When I first started this game, I wasn't even aware of wall running as a feature, so I got immensely frustrated when I'd drop down into a room on the Grineer Asteroid level thru a breakable fan and couldn't get back up out.  Or I'd run into the wall dash cross over and have no way of knowing that you had to perform a wall run to make it to the other side.  This is about two very important facts that have been almost entirely ignored.

 

The first is that the wall running is never properly introduced into the game.  You are really left to twist on how to perform even the most basic acrobatics.  At least the tutorial gives you an overview of how to fire a weapon and move around.  Wall running is never covered in anywhere save player generated locations on the forums and other websites.

 

The second is that this test is the first place you absolutely must do this type of action.  Not talking about hidden away optional tracks or bugs which require a work around, I mean the very first time the developers blatantly make it required.  At that point, its bad design to incorporate (not only) a foreign concept with zero primer, but also to include a massive penalty for failing it.  Without the penalty or with a reasonable primer, it would be a different matter.

 

If you've never had a problem with any of that, I'm glad to hear it.  And you know what, as much as I might hate it (and I will hate it), if it wasn't the first of these tests I'd run into, it'd be different.  If this was like the third or fourth test, I might be less irritated about it.  But this is the first test involving multiple wall run chains.

 

Frankly, that the forced wait period is unnecessarily frustrating and doesn't, in the slightest, improve the experience one bit.  I'll not feel good about completing it, I'll feel relieved that I don't have to deal with it anymore.  I won't look forward to the next one, I'll hate that I'm forced to if I want to more forward.  All the forced wait makes me do is hate it.  That's it.  Remove that and I wouldn't be complaining, I'd be running it until I've mastered it.

 

Now, as for it being unreliable, maybe that's a bug, because I can do everything I'm supposed to and it will work one time and not work the next.  I seem to have an issue with control input failing to register.  It happens quite a bit when I'm chaining sliding jumps.  Randomly I'll have to mash the space bar repeatedly just to get the jump to go off.

 

But fine, some people like the test and want to leave it as it is.  That's fine.  So how about this instead?  There is a practice mode for the test made available?  Have a drop down menu available somewhere which lets you take the test (including the previous ones) over again but in a practice mode where you can't fail, you just restart until you decide to leave.  That way someone can actually practice it and feel confident in their abilities.  Heck, make it so that 'other people' can join you in the test so that you can practice it in groups and discuss it if you need help with a particular part.

 

Things are not good enough as they are.  Not by a long shot.

[NydusTemplar]

Though with your argument of being forced to do something you never are forced to do in game, i could make the same argument to being forced into using the guns or melee, since neither are forced on you in this game.

 

The tutorial introduces your weapons to you.  You are forced to use them to proceed thru it.

[Ghobe]

The tutorial introduces your weapons to you.  You are forced to use them to proceed thru it.

Keep in mind tutorial stages are still being made. Argument still invalid.

[DeathByTeaCup]

not sure because i have not made it there but have u thought about a cool guy called loki :) st

[NydusTemplar]

Keep in mind tutorial stages are still being made. Argument still invalid.

 

Actually, the fact that there is a tutorial about using your weapons invalidates your counter argument about never needing to use weapons which was the basis of invalidating my argument.  The statement that tutorials are still being made in no way invalidates the fact that there is no current tutorial to introduce the concept.

 

It also doesn't address the fact that the long cooldown does not improve the experience of the test in the slightest.

 

Now, if you've said 'Keep in mind tutorial stages are still being made, so that should address one of the issues when they are completed.' I'd have agreed with you.

Edited July 2, 2013 by NydusTemplar

[ZWarhammer]

The trick here is to use a slow frame like rhino and a high spread gun like braton, also equip the stamina regen and max stamina mods ( maxed preferred ) 

People take these tests with frames like loki and ash with max movement speed mods but actually if you do that you won't make the ----- jump ------ jump ll  straight up a wall you will always fly off the the side and fail the test.

[Ghobe]

It also doesn't address the fact that the long cooldown does not improve the experience of the test in the slightest.

It's actually been shown in many threads of the past that the majority of the community supports the 24 hour time period.

[Anarook]

For those who struggle - use a slower warframe - control is much easier.

[P1RAT3]

>the game doesnt introduce you to wall running...

You've apparently never played a game or watched a movie about ninjas and martial arts...ever.

If you're that bad at wallrunning why don't you try to master it. They have normal missions for a reason.

[Xylia]

>the game doesnt introduce you to wall running...

You've apparently never played a game or watched a movie about ninjas and martial arts...ever.

If you're that bad at wallrunning why don't you try to master it. They have normal missions for a reason.

 

His point is that Wallrunning for any purpose in normal missions is so rare, that there's not very many places you'd actually NEED to use it to get anywhere.

 

And Wall Running is quite glitchy at times. I hate that new "you FLING yourself and go FLYING when you attempt to end Wall Running". I don't know how many times on Corpus Outpost levels that I used wall running to cross a gap, got to the end and let go of the key and my character pushes off the wall with force.........and goes flying right off the edge and I appear on the ground BEFORE THE WALL RUNNING PART. So I have to do that all over again.ARrrrrrrrgh.

 

Even worse in the Grineer Asteroid levels; if your character pushes themselves off a wall run, you fall, reset and have to do it all over again.

 

Why can't I just drop straight down!?!?

[gell]

Well OP, I can only agree that there is no tutorial for wall running and acrobatics, and that there should be. DE said they'll definitely be adding that at a later date (I'm sure by the PS4 launch).

 

The controls are hotly debated in some threads in this forum. It's divided between inputs not registering to people just being terrible at it. I'm still thinking the latter, at least in terms of DE's fault. If you use a keyboard,  you may want to look into your keyboard's hardware limitations. Most people aren't aware that keyboards weren't made for people to press multiple keys down at the same time, save for the ctrl, shift, and alt keys. Everything else shares conduits and are therefore limit how many can be pressed, and which keys. Which keys can be pressed simultaneously vary by the keyboard (even within the same manufacturer). Most "gaming keyboards" are more than just fancy naming and lights. They actually have more conduits and arrange them in less conflicting paths. Do look into the hardware.

 

The only issue I ever really have is that pressing jump doesn't work, but I figured it out down to one cause: equipping a weapon often overrides the jump function. If you melee, or otherwise switch weapons, and you press jump, much of the time, you will not jump until you're done equipping your weapon (not the melee weapon). That is something that does need to be fixed. The problem with most people's reports is that they are not professionals, at least in QA or bug reporting. Most people will just say "it didn't work when I pressed the button! Fix it!" but it doesn't help much. People need to report repro steps and be sure they aren't leaving anything out. They need to test things with different loadouts and settings to see if they can still repro the bugs. It helps out the devs way more if they can consistently repro the bugs, and if they can, the bugs will likely get fixed much faster (if they're simple fixes).

 

I say that because I can't repro anyone's issues as described, and when I do, I figure out that they left out information (usually due to human error or muscle memory). DE does need to look at controls some more, but I think players who have issues with the controls need to vocalize their problems better, or accept their fate.

 

And I still don't agree that there should be any required wall jumps in the game, just optional ones. For instance the big icy bridge in the Orokin void. That one can be bypassed by wall running to one side, or jumping over the turrets in the middle. It's optional to bypass it, but it also gives you a reason to look around and try for another path, as the straight path will slow you down terribly. I get that there are some vertical wall runs required in some of the Grineer levels, and I'm a little torn about those, but they're easy enough that even my coworker's terrible ability to do acrobatics succeeded after a few tries. You know the end of the Grineer ship map that has the big gap you're supposed to use the zip lines for? He makes it a point to try to jump over it every time, and it often takes him about 15-20 tries, and he says that when he makes it, it's all luck because the controls are terrible. I make it on my first try every time. I'm not gloating, my point here is that it's tougher for some folks, but it's still optional (I watched him do this in person and found out where he was going wrong, a little misunderstanding about how jump kicks work, and his fingers are terrible at hitting keys without hitting other keys).

 

Btw, you said you had a huge penalty for not passing the wall running test. There is no penalty. There is no penalty because there's no reward. You just can't do it again for 24 hours, but you lose nothing (nothing but pride that you're not good at wall running). Go practice over the Grineer lava pits where there's an optional triple wall jump. Use a slower frame if you intend to hit all 3 walls, or if you use a faster frame, wall run a bit longer so you don't wall fling yourself into the lava or the end. Good luck with that. If you can't do it, I suggest you look at changing your controls, or accept that you're one of the people that has no dexterity. Not everyone can become a top level black belt.

[Ghobe]

Why can't I just drop straight down!?!?

>.> <.< >.> Melee while jumping without sprinting?

[CheeseHasLeafs]

Wallrunning IMO is not the best of mechanics ingame. If you do a brief wallrun and let go of the space key almost immediately, the wallrun flings you a fair distance, whereas a longer wallrun of a few seconds only throws you five or so metres. I've resorted to using the jump smash in order to land where I want.

 

Chaining wallruns isn't all that hard. Basically, just hold down all the wallrun keys as you fly through the air, and you'll automatically wallrun as you hit the other wall. Detection can be somewhat buggy though, but this is not all that common. 
Actually connecting wallruns (i.e. transferring from a vertical wallrun into a horizontal wallrun on the same wall, or from a horizontal run into vertical) is very much harder and I don't even have much of a clue as to how it's performed. That at least is not required. 

 

But I do agree that there needs to be some sort of tutorial on wallrunning. I only learnt how to from some kind random in a PuG at extraction.