Conclave: 19.2.0 Feedback

[Lemonpartydragon]

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• Removed Mesa's no Melee Health buff Passive from Conclave.
• Increased Secondary weapon reload speed of Mesa’s Passive in Conclave.

Why? Mesa was unusually durable for a quick frame, but she already traded off on a lack of direct offensive abilities (BB required gunplay, SG could use direct balance rather than a framewide nerf, Peacemaker's range is suicidally low with the standstill characteristic) other than Peacemaker and the lack of a melee weapon that had both offensive and mobility benefits when equipped. Revert this, and if you're worried about frame eHP balance, go address the broken Primes that are actually a problem.

 

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• Mirage’s Sleight of Hand traps now last indefinitely in Conclave.

This is not good; it greatly minimizes the necessary Energy investment for a Mirage player to use this ability effectively. At the very least, the traps should dissipate on the casting Mirage's death.

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• Changed the Martial Fury Conclave Mod from 0.5 Power Rate to -50% Power Rate.

Is this just a text change on the mod? Please specify.

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• Changed ‘Low Current Leap’ Conclave Mod name to ‘No Current Leap’ and +5 second Shield regeneration delay changed to 0 Power Rate

One of the worst possible changes to make in the current paradigm of energy economy. Losing all power regeneration when the passive regeneration rate is obscenely bloated (1e/s) creates a huge tradeoff for additional mobility. The recent shift toward an anti-mobility metagame is antithetical to the gameplay of Conclave, and should not be happening. The shield regeneration tradeoff was actually meaningful for this mod - it meant that taking Mobility as a survivability mechanism directly required players to be competent in its use by diminishing the ability of their warframe to absorb direct damage. Revert this.

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• Reduced Volt's Shock damage in Conclave.

Why? It had already been nerfed. The AoE radius change was probably good - chain powers are silly for the same reasons as auto-aim powers - but the damage was fine. The real issue with powers like Shock is that the recent bloat to free energy from bloated regen made it highly spammable.

 

[Phasedragon]

1 hour ago, Lemonpartydragon said:

• Removed Mesa's no Melee Health buff Passive from Conclave.
• Increased Secondary weapon reload speed of Mesa’s Passive in Conclave.

Why? Mesa was unusually durable for a quick frame, but she already traded off on a lack of direct offensive abilities (BB required gunplay, SG could use direct balance rather than a framewide nerf, Peacemaker's range is suicidally low with the standstill characteristic) other than Peacemaker and the lack of a melee weapon that had both offensive and mobility benefits when equipped. Revert this, and if you're worried about frame eHP balance, go address the broken Primes that are actually a problem.

On the contrary, Mesa has one of the best kits for PVP. 4 entire powers that translate well into fighting tenno. Most frames only get 2 or 3 at best that are usable. On top of that, she had two passives. Now she only has one. They even buffed the one remaining. I'd say that's still plenty.

1 hour ago, Lemonpartydragon said:

• Mirage’s Sleight of Hand traps now last indefinitely in Conclave.

This is not good; it greatly minimizes the necessary Energy investment for a Mirage player to use this ability effectively. At the very least, the traps should dissipate on the casting Mirage's death.

Agreed.

 

1 hour ago, Lemonpartydragon said:

• Reduced Volt's Shock damage in Conclave.

Why? It had already been nerfed. The AoE radius change was probably good - chain powers are silly for the same reasons as auto-aim powers - but the damage was fine. The real issue with powers like Shock is that the recent bloat to free energy from bloated regen made it highly spammable.

 

It was well above other similar powers. It got a well deserved nerf, and still performs just fine.

 

[BenThePoofle]

22 hours ago, Lemonpartydragon said:

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• Changed ‘Low Current Leap’ Conclave Mod name to ‘No Current Leap’ and +5 second Shield regeneration delay changed to 0 Power Rate

One of the worst possible changes to make in the current paradigm of energy economy. Losing all power regeneration when the passive regeneration rate is obscenely bloated (1e/s) creates a huge tradeoff for additional mobility. The recent shift toward an anti-mobility metagame is antithetical to the gameplay of Conclave, and should not be happening. The shield regeneration tradeoff was actually meaningful for this mod - it meant that taking Mobility as a survivability mechanism directly required players to be competent in its use by diminishing the ability of their warframe to absorb direct damage. Revert this.

I agree. this is the dumbest decision in conclave for a change of this mod. it was good as it was.

[Witchydragon]

 

On 12/1/2016 at 11:51 AM, Lemonpartydragon said:

It occurred to me while playing how silly low sniper HS multipliers are. I shot a Mesa in the head - lightweight 1.2 frame, should die easily even with the extra eHP - and they simply mowed me down with an auto.

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Removed Mesa's no Melee Health buff Passive from Conclave.

23 hours ago, Lemonpartydragon said:

Revert this

 

[Lemonpartydragon]

17 hours ago, Witchydragon said:

 

 

I don't think Mesa is the problem there, I think Snipers are the problem. Nice try, though

[Lemonpartydragon]

On 12/1/2016 at 7:43 PM, Phasedragon said:

On the contrary, Mesa has one of the best kits for PVP. 4 entire powers that translate well into fighting tenno. Most frames only get 2 or 3 at best that are usable. On top of that, she had two passives. Now she only has one. They even buffed the one remaining. I'd say that's still plenty.

 

I don't think that's really responds to what I mentioned. SG is obvious and easy to run from. BB required the player to use gunplay as a vehicle for it - wasn't a direct damage power and thus barely comparable to things like Shock, Spores, Fireball, etc. Shatter Shield was good, but very short-lived. Peacemaker was just vaguely suicidal considering the standstill element (sans Waltz) and the limited range.

Her two passives were also different - gaining eHP required sacrificing the mobility/offense play that came with a melee weapon, whereas her other passive was unconditional like those of other frames. There was no need to buff the reload passive, anyway, if the eHP passive wasn't removed. And I still think both changes should be reverted.

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It was well above other similar powers. It got a well deserved nerf, and still performs just fine.

I'd love to see some stats on this. Shock definitely over-performed before the first nerf it received, but afterward it was fairly well-balanced with the classic LCL/normal regen paradigm. It's only become problematic - if it even has - because of the senseless energy regen changes.

 

[Witchydragon]

1 hour ago, Lemonpartydragon said:

I don't think Mesa is the problem there, I think Snipers are the problem. Nice try, though

Snipers are balanced to one shot headshot light/medium frames and take an extra shot on tanks. Mesa had tank EHP despite having light frame mobility. Mesa was the exception when it came to sniper balance. Now Mesa's ehp is in line with her mobility, so she gets one shot on headshot and 2 shot bodyshotted. 

 

[Nazrethim]

And Ash got SS duration reduced even more, as if lasted for long periods previously, at least they could cut the cost to 25.