Mag Now Lower Than Usless Tier (Patch 8.3)

[Boxyninja]

I mean I've read the changes, thought of ways that they are going to blow, logged on, confirmed it by running 2-3x Xini and that was that.

so you set up the changes to fail before giving them a shot? that must be a great way to do beta testing. shoot ideas down before they get a chance. yes the changes might not be OP but it isnt useless either. again its beta an they are visiting old warframes to change them for the better. this might not have been the biggest of steps but it is a step in the right direction.

love how everyone uses xini for testing even though there are higher level defense levels. at least do one of each enemy before saying something is crap.

[Specskill]

Pull + Heavy Weapon = Entire masses dead

 

Bullet Attractor + ANY MOB OF RANGED GUYS = They can't do anything, they shoot themselves pretty much.

 

Shield Polarize = Everything around you has their shields drained and your ENTIRE team get their shields back

 

You seem to think that everyone should be doing massive amounts of damage at 20+ waves. Have you ever considered they don't want you to be able to 1 shot everything from 20+ waves? Have you even considered the CC potential for these abilities? 

[adamkie]

I agree. Rhino and Volt are now acceptable bottom-row Mid Tier... but Mag is still in her "Useless BowMag Tier" (Or should I say "Useless AoE Tier").

 

To be honest... I was expecting some serious rework. Shield Polarize and Bullet Attractor are utterly useless. No matter the AoE. Damn, you can make Shield Polarize with global range and twice as strong and it's still USELESS. Wrong path taken.

 

Mag needs -new- skills. Buffing the old ones with AoE does nothing. Basic principals of uselessness are still here.

 

I agree, Mag's skills were designed a long time back when this game functioned completely differently, i think Mag needs a basic redesign instead of a buff to her powers. She just doesn't fit anywhere ability-wise.

[FLSH_BNG]

On top of all these ability reworks, Mag is becoming a caster warframe, but here energy total is still just 100/150 at levels 1 and 30 respectively. Unlike other "caster" type frames who have theirs top out at 225. She doesn't have the energy to use her abilities enough to be effective either, which is just as bad as having sub-par abilities as well.

 

Turning Mag's Pull into the Sith Tractor Pull may not have been the best idea but the fact that Mag is getting looked at finally is at least a step in the right direction. As it is now, it's lost half of its former usability to gain a little for its other half, leaving it effectively at the same level it was before. We can't use it on allies anymore like we could, which is painfully limiting.

 

Shield Polarize only gained a small increase in its effectiveness due to its AoE, but little has actually changed. The ability is still only effective against Corpus to any real extent as only the few Grineer heavies have shields at all. Shields that are generally weak and don't typically stand against disciplined weapons-fire. As it is now, it's better than it was, providing a regen to allies' shields, but again, because Mag only has 150 energy, she probably will end up saving her efforts for later.

 

Bullet Attractor was an interesting concept, but in the end, it never provided any real effectiveness because it unilaterally lowered allies' weapon accuracy. Making weak spots unhittable, is, if anything, a buff to the target in question. And only really works against players because it prevents them from shooting you, allowing you to skirt around them. A replacement for the ability entire should be found and the ability given only to bosses for use against the Tenno.

 

Crush on the other hand, devastating. It's a great ability that maintains its utility at all levels, but like all abilities that deal damage, loses its effectiveness at higher levels. This issue though is more with the higher difficulty content than with the ability; Difficulty in this game is increased only by increasing the stat values of the enemies rather than any actual change in the enemies' behavior or abilities. And the lack of any real variety of enemies later in the game fails to provide new challenges that require new tactics and skills to surpass. Sure, there are things later on like leech ospreys that drain your shields, but this just has us stay in cover longer to let our shields regen. Nothing has really changed except that the pace of the game has slowed, which could easily be seen as a negative.

 

Long story short: there are still A LOT of things that need work in this game. But DE knows that and they're trying to work on them. We can help by providing feedback. Keeping a civilized attitude about it certainly helps, even if it isn't exactly required, but if you have to basically throw a fit just to get our feedback noticed, you aren't going to enjoy the game anymore... even when they fix all the problems you mentioned, because you'll still hold onto the bitter attitude that was apparently needed to bring about the change in the first place. Try to calm down a bit before you rage-post, you'll be glad you did.

[BBYipho]

Pull + Heavy Weapon = Entire masses dead

 

Bullet Attractor + ANY MOB OF RANGED GUYS = They can't do anything, they shoot themselves pretty much.

 

Shield Polarize = Everything around you has their shields drained and your ENTIRE team get their shields back

 

You seem to think that everyone should be doing massive amounts of damage at 20+ waves. Have you ever considered they don't want you to be able to 1 shot everything from 20+ waves? Have you even considered the CC potential for these abilities? 

 

1. Only works if it's the Scythe. They'll get up and melee stun you before you can use most other heavy weapons.

 

2. You can't either if you're inside the bubble. Also if the guy in the bubble runs behind cover it just negates any damage towards anyone around him.

 

3. There are very limited enemies that have shields in the game. Most heavy units have shields but it's a waste to use the skill on them. The ability to use on yourself and teammates is nice, however it never fixed the issue with the value of shields gain back. Still would benefit from constant high shield recharge rate and instant recharge delay.

 

You don't measure anything by defense missions. You measure them by effectiveness on places like Pluto, Sedna, Eris. The new Mag is suffering heavily from her abilities. Teammate rescueing is a thing of the past now. Her abilities have made her worse. She isn't really much of a team player anymore.

 

_____________________

 

 

Pull only needed more range, able to yank allies really far to you, be able to yank enemies over cover like the Open Beta Cenematic showed, and finally some damage for pulling enemies towards cover. That's all it needed. It didn't need to be a form of huge attack or mob skill.

 

Shield Polarize wasn't really fixed. It was given another targetting system that used AoE instead. This didn't solve the issues it had before. The value is too low and shields are lost just as quick as they were shoved on. It needs a high constant recharge value and instant shield recovery delay like how Hyena recharges quickly when you start reloading.

 

Bullet Attractor as I've already said messes with overall team DPS. Enemies can sometimes benefit more from you using it then you. I'm actually at the point that I really hate this skill.

 

Crush needs to be modified heavily. It has the common Everyone Dies! The major problem with it is that it takes a long time for the ability to actually kill targets. New enemies running in range are unaffected by the damage. This skill needs to be changed to a unique ability. We don't need more AoE surround you death abilities. Why not make this ability designed to kill enemies in a cone AoE infront of her and do more damage for armor value and not get reduced by resistances.

Edited July 6, 2013 by BBYiffo

[SanguineXIII]

I have some good ideas:

 

Pull: Make this skill deal 5,000 damage to all targets in a cone and cause fireworks to shoot out of them and pull a single ally to your position instantly.

 

Bullet attractor: Make this skill cause all projectiles fired into the bubble deal x100 damage.

 

Shield polarize: Make this skill 30 second duration with infinite AoE range, drains enemy shields by 100% for duration, and doubles allies' shield capacity for duration.

 

Crush: Increase range to infinite and have it deal 1,000,000 damage.

Edited July 6, 2013 by SanguineXIII

[Specskill]

1. Only works if it's the Scythe. They'll get up and melee stun you before you can use most other heavy weapons.

 

2. You can't either if you're inside the bubble. Also if the guy in the bubble runs behind cover it just negates any damage towards anyone around him.

 

3. There are very limited enemies that have shields in the game. Most heavy units have shields but it's a waste to use the skill on them. The ability to use on yourself and teammates is nice, however it never fixed the issue with the value of shields gain back. Still would benefit from constant high shield recharge rate and instant recharge delay.

 

You don't measure anything by defense missions. You measure them by effectiveness on places like Pluto, Sedna, Eris. The new Mag is suffering heavily from her abilities. Teammate rescueing is a thing of the past now. Her abilities have made her worse. She isn't really much of a team player anymore.

 

1. I use Orthos and I can ground execute a group of 10 easily before anyone is back up.

2. Throw it on a far away target. Even if their not taking any damage, that's still damage you and your entire team AREN'T taking.

3. Restoring 300 shields is a fairly good amount. The largest amount of shields I've seen is roughly 800, 300 isn't bad considering 800 is from a Tank. Your restoring roughly 30-75% of a persons shields and its to your entire team. If your entire team is taking 800 damage that quickly, i'd recommend they take cover or actually shoot back.

 

Mag is still a good support. Sure you can't just pull someone and revive them, but now you have a load of different options. You can constantly top off your allies shields in a firefight, previously this wasn't practical because the ability was single target. You can pull a huge group of enemies for your melee weapon or just so their in range for some big aoe ability. And you can render all ranged fighters useless for a good amount of time, which can be a substitute for pulling a downed team mate.

 

The only change I want is to stop Bullet Attractor from attracting your bullets. It doesn't work very well offensive as the ability has no idea if its pulling your bullets into a wall. So just make it a very good defensive skill.

[CapricaSix]

Actually I was thinking of what someone mention to me in my thread. Why not change the ability to another AoE lockdown move? Magnetize an object and have all enemies running by it slam suddenly against it hard with extreme electromagnetic force. Though thinking of it. It'll just be an alternative to Vauban's Bastille. Probably just much shorter range though.

That sounds just as good, but we'd have more control with an AoE Push I think rather than dropping stuff around like vauban, and it could still have the same wall-slamming effect if you push them against a wall. win-win :P

[adamkie]

I have some good ideas:

 

Pull: Make this skill deal 5,000 damage to all targets in a cone and cause fireworks to shoot out of them and pull a single ally to your position instantly.

 

Bullet attractor: Make this skill cause all projectiles fired into the bubble deal x100 damage.

 

Shield polarize: Make this skill 30 second duration with infinite AoE range, drains enemy shields by 100% for duration, and doubles allies' shield capacity for duration.

 

Crush: Increase range to infinite and have it deal 1,000,000 damage.

 

Go and troll somewhere else, theres adults having a discussion here.

[Kickboxing_Banana]

Mag is awesome, you must be a bad player.

[Busok]

PS: DE-Steve pls go.

No, YOU go.

 

But please, don't be rude.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Busok

[CapricaSix]

Mag was awesome, you must've been a bad player.

fixed :P

[adamkie]

Start to learn the worthy value of a polite speech. Otherwise people would get really mad at your nerdrage and brutally smack your face IRL.

 

It always really makes my hair stand on end when "impolite speech" (i.e. speech that another interprets as hurting someones feels) is then answered with the threat of physical violence.

 

I don't really want to derail this thread, but i find it funny that something said (non-physical) illicits a disproportionate physical response that is considered "a good thing" by the poster. How the poster can not see the complete opposite is the case and how barbaric this kind of response is, I simply can't understand.

[Tenebraex]

This myth that Bullet Attractor prevents you from shooting weak points needs to stop. It's blatantly false. If you aim at the head, you shoot the head. What it doesn't do is magic any nearby bullets to the weak points for you. It was initially designed for negating (at the time) dangerous targets such as heavy gunners and bosses. Is it an optimal strategy? Probably not. Does it need more work? Yeah. But having an ability that turns enemy fire against them is a tool unique to Mag (and Nyx).

[adamkie]

This myth that Bullet Attractor prevents you from shooting weak points needs to stop. It's blatantly false. If you aim at the head, you shoot the head. 

 

Does this work with other weakpoints like Hyena Legs? Ancient ankles? Moa Midsections? etc?

 

Afaik and tested and the only thing you can reliably hit with the BA is the head as a weakpoint, everything else is a gamble depending on the entry angle.

[Eversor]

It always really makes my hair stand on end when "impolite speech" (i.e. speech that another interprets as hurting someones feels) is then answered with the threat of physical violence.

 

I don't really want to derail this thread, but i find it funny that something said (non-physical) illicits a disproportionate physical response that is considered "a good thing" by the poster. How the poster can not see the complete opposite is the case and how barbaric this kind of response is, I simply can't understand.

1. I haven´t  threatened anyone. Just suggested some changes to preserve his physical integrity IRL. 

2. I do not consider it good, just an action-response sequence. Sorry but dont know why you extract im the executor.

3. About my whole "barbaric response": i guess it is. But im not going to apologize, i assure you.

4. Thread not only deserves to be derailed but locked and buried.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Eversor

[Ced23Ric]

This threads have run its course.