Cap the Cumulative Login System's Unique Rewards

[Callback]

The cumulative login system as it is now is bad for the playerbase and for the game as a whole.  I will attempt to explain why the system needs to be capped off.

 

A system like this, if allowed to grow indefinitely, causes many problems.

• It not only discourages, but actively punishes breaks from the game
• It prohibits both new and returning players form ever catching up
• It creates an increasingly large divide among the comunity

Warframe is a grind.  That is fine.  These types of games tend to have people binging on them for a while, growing tired, taking a break, and returning later to go at it again.  A system that punishes players for taking breaks leads them to overexert their patience with the system, and leads to complete burnout and animosity towards the game, frequently resulting in lost players.  Other MMOs generally have systems to reward coming back from occasional breaks, with a care package of goodies to help returning players catch up, make up some of the distance between them and the rest of the community.  

 

Returning players are hugely important for an MMO to survive.  They keep the playerbase healthy and are more likely to spend money on the game to help themselves catch up.  Especially in a game like Warframe where continuous players earn a large stash of potatoes and make all their plat off the market, it's returning players who are buying the plat to trade to them and get market potatoes and slots.  Don't alienate returning players by slapping them in the face with an unreachable catchup goal.

 

It's just as bad for new players.  "Welcome to Warframe.  You are this many days behind everyone else and you can only ever fall further behind."  That's highly discouraging.  If the system were capped off, it would be a goal to reach for.  The idea of never being able to catch up to certain players no matter what you do is not something you want any player to think.  New players instead should think, "This could be you.  Just go out and earn it."

 

And then there's my case, as a returning veteran.  The system was introduced while I was away from the game.  Returning to see that 1500 hours of playtime was meaningless and I was over 300 days behind really hurt.  Other things I missed I can catch up on.  Event mods and weapons eventually make their way to a permanent home (including, you claimed, primed chamber, but we are still waiting on that one....also you are pretty far behind on quite a few more recent events' worth).  New primes can be farmed.  Old primes can be unvaulted.  I can do it all, but I can never make up that gap in login count.  That is the worst feeling.  Why bother doing any of this at all if there will always be that gap?

 

Having a few unique rewards in the system is fine.  As long as the system is capped off on those rewards beyond a reasonable point, it gives everyone a goal that they can eventually reach.  New players look forward to it.  Old players feel ok taking breaks knowing when they return they can resume right where they left off.  But for it to work this way it needs to be capped.

 

Now, of course, continuous players need a reason to stay as well.  Milestone rewards scaling up indefinitely is still a good idea.  The sigils are fine.  It's just a mark of dedication that players can show off and feel proud of, with no real game impact to discourage others.  I would up the value of the reward packs.  Something like the player's choice of a free set of slots of a type of their choosing, or even just a bundle of free platinum.  Let the players know you're thanking them for their dedication.

 

 

There is a good balance to be struck here.  The current system just falls far short of it.  It needs to be capped off, maybe reorganized a bit to shrink the overall goalpost (500 currently "planned" seems excessive).  And keep the game open for all kinds of players to be able to enjoy.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Callback

[.corvon.]

the rewards aren't pivotal to the game.

they're just sigils, potatoes, and one or two arguably good weapons.

it's not a big deal if you miss them.

[Callback]

1 minute ago, TheMetrocop said:

the rewards aren't pivotal to the game.

they're just sigils, potatoes, and one or two arguably good weapons.

it's not a big deal if you miss them.

The weapons (and to a lesser extent mods) are a big deal and that's exactly the issue.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Callback

[LordOfScrugging]

i hope the new rifle is good. but of the 2 existing weapons, the only one really worth it is zenistar. besides, obviously new players shouldn't be able to get the same rewards as someone who has been consistently logging in since the start of the system. To think otherwise, is rediculous.

[Gabry_96]

tl;dr... But I've read the first segment. I totally agree.

I've been playing this game for 3 years, but I was forced to take a months long break because my graphic card left me. Now I'm sitting at around 150ish days, while most of the people are actually going to reach 300 really soon. There's no way we, or as you mentioned the newest players, will ever catch up with them. 

Just... Do something about it. I'd gladly give up my platinum to skip those 150 days that I've yet to do

 

Quote

the rewards aren't pivotal to the game.

they're just sigils, potatoes, and one or two arguably good weapons.

it's not a big deal if you miss them.

The weapons, yes. But what about the mods? Primed Fury and the soon-to-come Primed Vigor are something that should not be tied to a such prohibiting system

Edited December 22, 2016 by Gabry_96

[.corvon.]

4 minutes ago, Callback said:

The weapons and mods are a big deal and that's exactly the issue.

they're one or two weapons. 

people who haven't played tww can't get teshin's beepidoodoodle or the skibbidlineedldoo. it's not a big deal. in due time, you'll get whatever it is. if the rewards are hurting you that much mentally(coming from someone with extreme anxiety and feelsies-depression) you really need to grow a pair, man.

Edited December 22, 2016 by TheMetrocop

[Callback]

3 minutes ago, LordOfScrugging said:

i hope the new rifle is good. but of the 2 existing weapons, the only one really worth it is zenistar. besides, obviously new players shouldn't be able to get the same rewards as someone who has been consistently logging in since the start of the system. To think otherwise, is rediculous.

They shouldn't be forbidden from ever catching up.  They should be encouraged to attempt to.  After enough time, yes they both SHOULD have the same things.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

But I want that prime streamline to be the 1000 day login reward, yo.

[Callback]

2 minutes ago, TheMetrocop said:

they're one or two weapons. 

people who haven't played tww can't get teshin's beepidoodoodle or the skibbidlineedldoo. it's not a big deal. in due time, you'll get whatever it is. if the rewards are hurting you that much mentally(coming from someone with extreme anxiety and feelsies-depression) you really need to grow a pair, man.

But TWW is a goal all players can catch up to on their own time.  They're not forbidden from progressing more than 1 quest for every quest released.  It's an entirely false dichotomy.

[LordOfScrugging]

that's a slap to those who dedicate the time to log in every day. This is something to reward dedication, not a matter of "being equal" if you want the items first, you need to be dedicated. you will eventually get the items, but not first.

[Callback]

Just now, LordOfScrugging said:

that's a slap to those who dedicate the time to log in every day. This is something to reward dedication, not a matter of "being equal" if you want the items first, you need to be dedicated. you will eventually get the items, but not first.

Dedicated players would get continuous rewards, more rewards overall by staying on top of it, and have those special sigils to show off that dedication.  The only thing that needs to be removed from the system is actual game-affecting progression in those weapons and mods.

 

And no we won't "eventually" get it if the system continues as is, because by the time we get disc launcher mark IV you will be on disc launcher mark VIII.

 

With all other games out there, missed progression for taking a break can be made up in due time.  Players can catch up and get back on even footing.  This system puts an arbitrary gate in front of players to prevent that progress.  It's unhealthy for everyone involved, including you.

[Gabry_96]

1 minute ago, LordOfScrugging said:

that's a slap to those who dedicate the time to log in every day. This is something to reward dedication, not a matter of "being equal" if you want the items first, you need to be dedicated. you will eventually get the items, but not first.

Sad thing is: not everyone can (even if they want it). This login system simply puts players in 2 categories: the elites, who can get everything in time, and then there are the poor peasants who have to climb this ladder at half of the elite's speed.

It's not fair. We should all have the same rights and every player should have the same value. 

As I said, I'd settle myself with paying for being placed in a higher position than what I am now. 

[Phasedragon]

Something like evolve's login reward would be way better. It only counts logins within a month. If you log in for all the days of that month, you get that month's special reward. You didn't also need to log in for every other month before it going back an entire year. At the end of the month, it resets, and a new month with a new reward begins.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Phasedragon

[TaricTheAncient]

I really want the Primed fury but...so many days

[.corvon.]

8 minutes ago, Callback said:

But TWW is a goal all players can catch up to on their own time.  They're not forbidden from progressing more than 1 quest for every quest released.  It's an entirely false dichotomy.

i can't immediately be of age to get my driver's license.

oh.

boo hoo. 

i have to wait x number of years and i don't have a time-traveling machine.

i can, if i really want to(hypothetically in this situation) go to college and skip grades.

but that's much more important than driving, isn't it? 

having your mum drive you around is(if you don't have your priorities skewed) far less emotionally damaging than failing school.

take it as it comes. wait for it like everybody else. it's not going to kill you and cause you to spiral into a deep depression.

Edited December 22, 2016 by TheMetrocop

[Phasedragon]

5 minutes ago, TheMetrocop said:

i can't immediately be of age to get my driver's license.

oh.

boo hoo. 

i have to wait x number of years and i don't have a time-traveling machine.

i can, if i really want to(hypothetically in this situation) go to college and skip grades.

but that's much more important than driving, isn't it? 

having your mum drive you around is(if you don't have your priorities skewed) far less emotionally damaging than failing school.

take it as it comes. wait for it like everybody else. it's not going to kill you and cause you to spiral into a deep depression.

Yeah, except imagine if by the time you're 18, everyone else is 25 and can get a pilots license. And by the time you get a pilots license, everyone else is an astronaut. You always feel behind, no matter how dedicated to the game you decide to be. That's a terrible feeling that no game should have.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Phasedragon

[Callback]

3 minutes ago, TheMetrocop said:

i can't immediately be of age to get my driver's license.

oh.

boo hoo. 

i have to wait x number of years and i don't have a time-traveling machine.

i can, if i really want to(hypothetically in this situation) go to college and skip grades.

but that's much more important than driving, isn't it? 

having your mum drive you around is(if you don't have your priorities skewed) far less emotionally damaging than failing school.

take it as it comes. wait for it like everybody else. it's not going to kill you and cause you to spiral into a deep depression.

 

So by your analogy you agree that a fixed goalpoint is more ideal.  Perfect.

 

Glad you agree that capping the earned rewards at a reasonable point instead of increasing it indefinitely so that players actually approach it over time instead of forever being at some distance behind it no matter what they do is the best system.

[Drasiel]

I just.... What. This mentality is completely mind boggling to me. You are viewing the log in rewards as a race with the other players when they are more like a hiking trail that people take at their own pace. 

You can catch up with people because at some point everyone needs a break and no matter how "far ahead"  someone is it won't affect your rewards. Regardless of all that, I think the biggest issue you are having with the login rewards is the attitude you have towards them.

[.corvon.]

Just now, Phasedragon said:

Yeah, except imagine if by the time you're 18, everyone else is 25 and can get pilots license. And by the time you get a pilots license, everyone else is an astronaut. You always feel behind, no matter how dedicated to the game you decide to be. That's a terrible feeling that no game should have.

can't you just suck it up and deal with it? if games were so fair, it wouldn't be fun. those people dedicated themselves to their work, and they were behind at some point too. your idea of unfair is fair for people that have already been there, done that. how do you think the people in front of you feel if they get cheated out of their dedication? 

2 minutes ago, Callback said:

 

So by your analogy you agree that a fixed goalpoint is more ideal.  Perfect.

 

Glad you agree that capping the earned rewards at a reasonable point instead of increasing it indefinitely so that players actually approach it over time instead of forever being at some distance behind it no matter what they do is the best system.

again, think about the people whom dedicated time to logging in every day. what is unfair for you is for all purposes fair for them.

[Callback]

2 minutes ago, TheMetrocop said:

can't you just suck it up and deal with it? if games were so fair, it wouldn't be fun. those people dedicated themselves to their work, and they were behind at some point too. your idea of unfair is fair for people that have already been there, done that. how do you think the people in front of you feel if they get cheated out of their dedication? 

again, think about the people whom dedicated time to logging in every day. what is unfair for you is for all purposes fair for them.

It's not fair for them.  It's holding them hostage.  They should be rewarded for dedication, not threatened with losing progression should they lapse.

[.corvon.]

1 minute ago, Callback said:

It's not fair for them.  It's holding them hostage.  They should be rewarded for dedication, not threatened with losing progression should they lapse.

that's how time works. if they fall behind, you can only catch up. if someone loses their job, you get hired.

life is still eat or be eaten.

life does not cater to delicate snowflakes, either, sadly.

Edited December 22, 2016 by TheMetrocop

[Liminal]

I definitely agree, even though I'm almost caught up (funny because you cannot actually ever catch up, not even in a million years). Even if it's not a hard cap, implement some sort of rubberbanding. Being a month behind is no biggie, being 2 years behind is horrible for any new player... the game may even be dead by the time they'd get that item.

[Callback]

2 minutes ago, TheMetrocop said:

that's how time works. if they fall behind, you can only catch up. if someone loses their job, you get hired.

life is still eat or be eaten.

life does not cater to delicate snowflakes, either, sadly.

You can't catch up unless you either move at a faster pace (which is forbidden by this system) or if the goalpost stops moving ahead of you.

 

Normal progression (new weapons, quests, frames, etc.) is a slow-moving goal that players can catch up to by outpacing it.  That is good.  That works.

Locking weapons behind login days scaling up infinitely does not work.  Catching up becomes literally impossible.  If you are 300 days behind now, even with 20 years of dedication you will STILL be 300 days behind then.

[.corvon.]

2 minutes ago, Callback said:

You can't catch up unless you either move at a faster pace (which is forbidden by this system) or if the goalpost stops moving ahead of you.

 

Normal progression (new weapons, quests, frames, etc.) is a slow-moving goal that players can catch up to by outpacing it.  That is good.  That works.

Locking weapons behind login days scaling up infinitely does not work.  Catching up becomes literally impossible.  If you are 300 days behind now, even with 20 years of dedication you will STILL be 300 days behind then.

with twenty years of dedication to a sport, you'll always be behind x's amount of awards, unless they fall sick or die in a cataclysmic perpetuity of antagonism and shoe-oppression inception. same goes for warframe.

life is life. it's not a race, buddy.

Edited December 22, 2016 by TheMetrocop

[Liminal]

1 minute ago, TheMetrocop said:

life is life. it's not a race, buddy.

But this is a game, not life.