Base Damage Vs Crit Damage

[Malthariel]

I am trying to understand what has greater impact on a weapon's damage output, base damage vs crit damage, assuming you are using a proper crit weapon. If I had to choose between two riven mods, both with the same crit chance, but one having crit damage, and the other having base damage of EQUAL integer value, what would be the better choice? How is it calculated?

Edited January 3, 2017 by Malthariel

[(PSN)auwsomestgamer]

Hmm I guess it really just depends on the weapon. If you have low dmg weapon I would use crit dmg (like soma), high dmg weapon I would use base dmg. That's what I would do (still depends on weapon), but I definitely could be wrong. Play around with both and see which one you like more as well.

[bejuizb]

Generally, Crit Damage = Crit Multiplier x Damage. If your weapon has a high enough crit damage multiplier, the crit riven would be better. Otherwise I would choose the base damage riven. 

Do note, I may be wrong. 

[The_Discussion]

Example weapon. Base damage: 100. Crit chance: 75%. Crit multiplier: 4x.

Excluding headshots, on average, every 4 shots, it deals 100 damage with 1, and 400 damage with the other 3 shots. So, it deals 1300 damage.

If its base damage was 150 with everything else unchanged, it'd deal 1950 damage.

If its crit multiplier was 6x with everything else unchanged, it'd deal 1900 damage.

So, in this case, the base damage bonus is outputting a higher DPS on average for body shots. Perhaps, this will put things into perspective for you. It varies from situation to situation. Calculate the numbers, and go for whichever gives you a better average.

Edited January 3, 2017 by The_Discussion
Typos.

[SDGDen]

14 minutes ago, Malthariel said:

I am trying to understand what has greater impact on a weapon's damage output, base damage vs crit damage, assuming you are using a proper crit weapon. If I had to choose between two riven mods, both with the same crit chance, but one having crit damage, and the other having base damage of EQUAL integer value, what would be the better choice? How is it calculated?

crit damage is better. since like every 50% extra crit dmg is another time the damage without a crit is added to the critical hit.

lets just say we have generic weapon A with:

100 damage

35 % crit chance

2.0X critical multiplier

2S reload

20 magazine size

0% status chance

 

of course you add your basic damage and crit mods. that makes the total dmg:

360 damage

87.5% crit chance

4.4X crit multiplier

this 4.4X crit multiplier means that the total dmg on 87.5% of the shots would be 1584 total

now lets just say we have 2 rivens. one with +100% damage and one with +100% crit dmg

normal dmg:

460 damage

87% crit chance

4.4X crit multiplier

total dmg: 2024

crit dmg:

360 base dmg

87% crit chance

6.4X crit multiplier

total dmg: 2304

 

now if we would look at elemental mods, on normal dmg it would add 414 of said dmg. lets say toxin. on the crit dmg one it would add 324 dmg.

but thats before critical hits. after critical hits it would translate to:

base dmg: 1821 toxin (3845 total with base dmg)

crit dmg: 2073 toxin (4377 total with base dmg)

 

results on lets say the rakta cernos:

100% base dmg riven:  9702 dmg per shot

100% crit dmg: 10145 dmg per shot

 

this is with the build of: point strike, vital sense, serration, 4 elementals (primed cryo rounds) and the riven

 

 

also. i made an error in my calculations above. i thought maxed serration was 260%. but it was 165%. shouldnt affect it much. the rakta cernos calculations do use the correct amount.

[ShardsSuperior]

If you only put one mod on the weapon, between a crit damage and base damage mod of the same percentage, the base damage mod is better, unless the weapon has 100% crit chance, because the crit damage mod only applies if the weapon actually crits.

If you have other mods on the weapon, the easiest way to figure it out might be to throw it into Warframe builder and test it, or maybe just good old paper and a calculator.

[ashrah]

for guns up to 10-15% crit chance u wish raw dmg.. for guns all over that go for crit

[(XBOX)freakytiki3]

its easy do you like Soma more or Boltor

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

41 minutes ago, Malthariel said:

I am trying to understand what has greater impact on a weapon's damage output, base damage vs crit damage, assuming you are using a proper crit weapon. If I had to choose between two riven mods, both with the same crit chance, but one having crit damage, and the other having base damage of EQUAL integer value, what would be the better choice? How is it calculated?

A couple of factors here

If the weapon just just base damage Damage wins

If the weapon is based on crit , crit damage wins

(this is elementary)

 

but what if the weapon has  a bit of everything and can be made crit viable with a riven. 

If weapon A can reach 100 crit chance with a riven and there was a choice between full base damage or crit damage. It will be the same because it all depends on the values of your riven. 

When you crit for example all it does is take the total damage multiplied by a number. The same way a 100% damage mod would do on your weapon.

 

The main difference here now is that the value the your riven mod multiplies for crit chance is multiplicative whereas the damage is just a base value multiplied by a number.

 

So if you can consistently 80% and above crit with weapon A then crit damage  will usually win.

But if crit chance is a factor then it gets complicated. The golden rule I follow though is this

If the weapon has under 15% crit, then Visican mods (damage and multishot)

If the number has a 15 (mayber) or higher % crit chance then go for a double crit.

But if the weapon relies on crits you can benefit from damage as well since its multiplication by a larger number.

 

TL:Dr you have to specify which weapon it is.

[Xzorn]

Average Damage per shot is calculated as

(Base Damage + Elemental Damage)  * ( 1+ (1 - Crit Multiplier) * (Crit Chance / 100)

There's not really a straight answer to your question because the weight of each stat is determined by their current values. As one gets higher. the lesser gains more weight.

 

As an example using Dread and swapping out Bladed Rounds (Crit Damage) and Primed Bane (Base damage) with this loadout https://goo.gl/1uqSUo

Spoiler

First example we use a Riven with 70% Crit, 70%crit damage and 70%damage

First the Damage without Argon / Bladed / Bane.

(2480.4 Corrosive + 1378 Base Damage) * ( 1 + ( 1- 5.8) * 1.6) = 33,490.912 Avg Damage per shot

Now with Bladed Round (Crit multiplier)

(2480.4 Corrosive + 1378 Base Damage) * ( 1 + ( 1- 8.2) * 1.6) = 48,307.168 Avg Damage per shot

Now with Primed Bane (Base Damage)

(2480.4 Corrosive + 1378 Base Damage) * 1.55) * ( 1 + ( 1- 5.8) * 1.6) = 51.910.914 Avg Damage per shot

Prime Bane (Base Damage is better with a Crit / Crit Damage / Multishot Riven. But now lets change the Riven to 70% Crit 70% Damage 70% Multishot

First without Argon / Bladed / Bane

(3135.6 Corrosive + 1742 Base Damage)  * ( 1 + ( 1- 4.4) * 1.6) = 31,411.744 Avg Damage per shot

Now with Primed Bane which we know was the winner last Riven.

(3135.6 Corrosive + 1742 Base Damage) * 1.55) * ( 1 + ( 1- 4.4) * 1.6) = 48,688.203 Avg Damage per shot

Now Bladed Rounds

(3135.6 Corrosive + 1742 Base Damage) * ( 1 + ( 1- 6.8) * 1.6) = 50,141.728 Avg Damage per shot

So now Bladed Rounds is better because we swapped the Riven's Crit Damage for base damage.

 

You can see this for yourself if you edit the Riven given in the loadout link. Change the stats and swap between Damage, Crit, Crit Damage.

Because of the values given in mods, you can generally assume Crit damage is more valuable than crit chance but this is mostly because crit multiplier mods give far more than they should and even so I've seen cases where crit chance has more weight. When it comes to Damage Vs Crit Damage. It's a scale system where the answer is not always easy to find without doing the numbers.