Warframe Alienates Working Class Players

[Lumireaver]

I interpreted this as "I don't have time to farm so just give me what I want now".

 

While this is absolutely true, it's also true that busy people are legitimately screwed out of fun/drops.

[fallouthirteen]

Personaly I think putting rare resources as reward for completing Alert solves all issues.

a) It remains rare as you can't farm same alert again and again and have to wait for one.

b) Choosing to which alerts attach such reward allows control of Difficulty and drop rate.

c) It is guaranteed reward for effort.

You forgot d). How many people just ignore non-"?" alerts completely? I mean credits take a back-seat to everything else; and I've bought nearly every blueprint in the game and crafted most of them so I've been low on credits before (just been lower on something else whenever I wanted to craft something). If all non-"?" alerts gave out a control module here or neurode there they'd actually be worth doing.

[Neuhnee]

If I don't like Bob becasue he has this one habit that drives me nuts, that doesn't mean Bob is a bad person. That just means I don't like Bob. Other people seem to like Bob just the way he is. Bob shouldn't be made to change just to stop annoying me, I just won't invite him to my BBQ.

 

It's not WarFrame's fault you don't like it, it's just not the game for you.

[ValhaHazred]

I work 8+ hours a day and I have almost every Alert bp cluttering up my inventory. Maybe I'm in the goldilocks timezone, but I haven't had any trouble getting stuff.

I use my well gotten gains buying 1/2 of my potatoes, a few colours and Vauban. Those are the only things I haven't ground(grinded?) for.

[S5alad]

If you are working class, you imply that you have a job, which implies you SHOULD have a few extra dollars somewhere. Suck it up and support the devs by actually buying something.

Holy S#&$ dude, look at my avatar, it says, "Master," meaning, I've dropped over $150 on this game.  Get that $&*^ out your mouth and you might actually see what's going on in front of you. 

Edited July 10, 2013 by Swaggermeistress

[Zhoyzu]

Holy S#&$ dude, look at my avatar, it says, "Founder," meaning, I've dropped over $150 on this game.  Get that $&*^ out your mouth and you might actually see what's going on in front of you.

LOLOL i say that all the time.   support

[S5alad]

But how does that make game more interesting? Or should he buy every little thing just because he works? Wouldn't you be first yelling it's pay to win in that case? Problem is not that he is working, worker <> payer. Problem is he can't spend a lot of time on that game at same time he doesn't plan to buy everything with money, he wants to earn something in-game. But in the end, he still has to do same stupid grind, and while it is okay for youngsters to play game all day long to get something, he from his life exp knows how stupid it would be to waste his time in such way, but he got no workaround. He can't challenge game to get said reward via skill, not time contribution. Time contribution to game should lead to player increasing his skill, so he can challenge greater enemies for greater rewards. That means skilled players will get things fast as reward for their skill. Lazy/unskilled - via grind. Currently there is only one way - grind, so no reason to raise your skill. Ult spamming is proof enough - players simply go low level areas and spam 4 to win&grind. Do they get any challenge? No.

I've built every weapon I've used in the game thus far.  Same with Warframes.  However, Research weapons cannot be bought.  If they could, at this point, I would have bought them.

 

Since they can't, I've hit a solid wall where an hour a day to grind out control modules and plastids simply ain't enough.  Seeing as research weapons are the only endgame content available aside from void runs(which I've already exhausted) then the game has come to a halt for me as far as any further development goes.  I can't rank up without new weapons, and I can't get the new weapons without the materials, and I can't get the materials without the resources, and the resources are controlled by RNG which is taking a S#&amp;&#036; on me every hour I spend trying to get them.  The literal rate for me to progress in this game would leave me grinding weeks to months at a time to get a single research weapon.  Not cool.

[stacey69]

I'm almost Mastery 9.  I have all the frames, and am really only interested in the research weapons, which I have all the recipes for.  I run in a fun clan and find the game play to be genuinely fun.

 

However I work for a living.  I only have so much time to game, and after spending over an hour trying to get a control module, I realized that this game is not friendly to people with substantial life obligations.  I can't imagine the rate of 1 control module an hour, how long it would take me to craft the injectors, masses, and fieldron I need.  The simple fact that I can spend what precious little time I have and get nothing out of it, is a direct insult to the working class trying to enjoy a fun game. 

 

My departure comes at a loss to my clan, losing one of their elders who's contributed immensely.  However, some kid with no job and no life obligations will take my place, and excel, because this game only rewards people with nothing to do but pour all their time into Warframe.  I'm sure when you can play from waking till passing out again, you can get all the resources you need and never hit a block where to progress any further in the game you need to farm.

 

I would like to see Warframe become less grind-centric and offer more challenging ways to complete a task than pure luck and volume of hours spent farming.   It should be as simple as, I run the boss, I get the rare material.  After I've done that 10 times and farmed for my plastids, then every 12 hours get the research component, and then have a sure, although challenging and timed, way to get get the weapons I have left to enjoy in this game.  The RNG is fine on some things, but in other things it shouldn't be the single thing that brings game progress to a stop.  Something as simple as getting a control module shouldn't take over an hour, get rid of the RNG when it comes to rare mats!

 

Since that's not the case, and I have but a couple hours to play each day, I intend to move to a game where I won't be left wasting the few hours I can enjoy each day with little to no returns.  Perhaps BL2, or finish up the new expansion for SC2, etc.  So much more rewarding than spending hours trying to farm for something, panicking because it's the only time I have to try to get these items, in between the long hours I work.

 

Stop &!$$ing on the working class DE.  We're the ones who actually have money to give you, and you're alienating us, and I'm done.

This was also a huge issue in Wow in vanilla. Us 40 raided everyday and farmed the 40 mana pots a day to raid we needed during the day. Thing is we the non workers would farm for the people who couldn't log on until raid time. They were friends and excellent players we needed so it was a pleasure to hand them everything they needed to raid in a trade window.

 

Now...imagine we could do the same for you in Warframe. I would gladly farm some stuff for you so when you got home you could start that new gun off in the foundry.

 

The issues... Clan play is not good in Warframe as their is no end game.

The farmers would do this and sell accounts.

People would start getting hacked by clicking links they had no idea were key loggers...

 

The list would go on...but...

 

In asia 1 European account could feed a family for 1 week. In diablo 3 they knew this would happen so instead they gave the farmers a choice. They had an AH to use. I did not hear of many Diablo 3 accounts being hacked as their was no real need for them to do it as it was a free market for them.

 

I was once known as Cutezee on Alonsus in Wow and went head to head with many Asian farmers. I put a few out of business due to bad tactics form them but some of the others I allowed to play the AH aslong as they didn't wreck it everyday and spam chat every 2 seconds. I made deals with them. They came to me and if they had behaved I left them alone.

 

The Auction House Mafia as we were known did not F*** around with farmers interested in harming the game. We just destroyed any profit they could have made until they left. The good ones made their 3k to 5k a day targets easy and were happy. You can control trading in a game. You just have to think carefully and be aware you might have to act against the bad ones quickly and not mess around with them. At the end of the day they just want to eat. For us its a pleasure. If you show them respect they respect you back. Just make sure they know who's boss and they behave.

 

If anyone thinks I'm talking S#&amp;&#036; I will happily upload a few pics of farmers begging me to be allowed to sell on the AH. I don't lie. I do enjoy a good scrap though.

[Sumnus]

As has been said, if you are taking an hour to get one control module, you're farming incredibly inefficiently. As someone who also doesn't have all day to game, knowing how to play efficiently helps a great deal. Another reason I love the datamined drop tables.

[S5alad]

This was also a huge issue in Wow in vanilla. Us 40 raided everyday and farmed the 40 mana pots a day to raid we needed during the day. Thing is we the non workers would farm for the people who couldn't log on until raid time. They were friends and excellent players we needed so it was a pleasure to hand them everything they needed to raid in a trade window.

 

Now...imagine we could do the same for you in Warframe. I would gladly farm some stuff for you so when you got home you could start that new gun off in the foundry.

 

The issues... Clan play is not good in Warframe as their is no end game.

The farmers would do this and sell accounts.

People would start getting hacked by clicking links they had no idea were key loggers...

 

The list would go on...but...

 

In asia 1 European account could feed a family for 1 week. In diablo 3 they knew this would happen so instead they gave the farmers a choice. They had an AH to use. I did not hear of many Diablo 3 accounts being hacked as their was no real need for them to do it as it was a free market for them.

 

I was once known as Cutezee on Alonsus in Wow and went head to head with many Asian farmers. I put a few out of business due to bad tactics form them but some of the others I allowed to play the AH aslong as they didn't wreck it everyday and spam chat every 2 seconds. I made deals with them. They came to me and if they had behaved I left them alone.

 

The Auction House Mafia as we were known did not F*** around with farmers interested in harming the game. We just destroyed any profit they could have made until they left. The good ones made their 3k to 5k a day targets easy and were happy. You can control trading in a game. You just have to think carefully and be aware you might have to act against the bad ones quickly and not mess around with them. At the end of the day they just want to eat. For us its a pleasure. If you show them respect they respect you back. Just make sure they know who's boss and they behave.

 

If anyone thinks I'm talking S#&$ I will happily upload a few pics of farmers begging me to be allowed to sell on the AH. I don't lie. I do enjoy a good scrap though.

Wow... Today I learned.  I think it would be amazing if that were the case in Warframe, but DE is a long ways off from being anywhere near a stable trading system that's protected from hacking and exploits.

[Neuhnee]

You can control trading in a game.

 

 

Which is exactly how trade got so out of hand in WoW. You and GhostCrawler are the reason I Quit WoW.

[Mhak]

I'm in your same boat OP, but I have a Supra, Dera, ect. I agree 100% that farming for mats is time consuming BS, but it's hardly something that will prevent you from getting the research weapons you desire. At a slower rate than people with no life, sure, but the trade-off you get for aquiring research weapons slower is a paycheck every couple weeks.

[Aedwynn]

I'm in your same boat OP, but I have a Supra, Dera, ect. I agree 100% that farming for mats is time consuming BS, but it's hardly something that will prevent you from getting the research weapons you desire. At a slower rate than people with no life, sure, but the trade-off you get for aquiring research weapons slower is a paycheck every couple weeks.

If that was consistent, okay. The main problem - it isn't. When I needed Cont. Module for frame month ago I farmed for it like a couple of hours. for 1 module. When I needed it  week ago for Orokin catalyst I farmed 2 days. for 1 module.

[ApeMummy]

I have the same problem, I play for an hour or so after work (like a normal well adjusted person with a job)

That was fine for a while, I built a supra in about 2 weeks, but the past few days I haven't gotten a single control module since they changed the RNG.

If people with time commitments and jobs (most people) can play for an hour and get nothing out of the game in terms of progress then it's not about a sense of entitlement it's about the game having poor design in that respect ESPECIALLY when compared to other games.

Play team fortress 2 and you're guarnateed a weapon at least every hour, play planetside 2 and you're guaranteed an income of cert points every 2 hours (playing or not) to use to upgrade your gear. Play almost any other game of this type and a lot of the nasty RNG stuff has been done away with. A lot of that 'random is random' bollocks is from a bygone era, it simply makes the game way less fun and way more grindy than it ever has to be.

[Winterbraid]

I agree that something like the Alerts 2.0 system should be implemented to prevent individual "famines" while trying to obtain a specific item. However, the definition of a "famine" is subjective and I don't think the existing rare items should be made considerably easier to get. I'm allergic to any post that suggests drastic changes to core elements of the gameplay at what is clearly a highly advanced stage of development. Hate it or love it, grind (and luck) are such elements and drastically changing them now would alienate many players who enjoy the game for what it is.

 

First of all, you don't need the research weapons to play the game. I will never have them because I don't want to join a clan, and I'm not threatening to quit the game because I understand the simple truth that not everyone's game experience has to or should be the same. There are perfectly good weapons in Warframe that can be bought for credits with virtually zero effort, others that only require easy-to-get materials, others that demand ridiculous amounts of grind, and yet others that cannot even be obtained anymore if you weren't in the right place at the right time.

 

All of them have their own place in the game progression and all are needed, because the person willing to spend thousands of hours in the game deserves to have something that a person with a mere hundred doesn't have. The beauty of free to play is that YOU choose when to stop paying, and when to stop grinding and be happy with what you already have, or even simply quit the game - that a game has an end doesn't make it a bad game.

 

Taking the fact you've reached an end of your own journey in the game, I assume after many hundreds of hours of enjoyment, and turning it into a threat and demanding that the game balances around your personal needs and tastes just so that YOU can squeeze a couple more hours out of it - is just unfair in my opinion. (And kind of moot, since purchases in this game are permanent and playing for longer doesn't imply you will spend more money.)

Edited July 12, 2013 by Winterbraid

[PettiTheYeti]

Holy S#&$ dude, look at my avatar, it says, "Master," meaning, I've dropped over $150 on this game.  Get that &#036;&amp;*^ out your mouth and you might actually see what's going on in front of you. 

 

Cool story, bro. Even though I just found this game, I love the unique play style and graphical designs of the game, so I've put down my own big chunk of cash to help support the devs so they can keep this game moving along. Despite that, I have a full time M to F job that requires 24-7 on call, so I won't have much time to play this game myself, aside from weekends that I don't get called.

 

If you're worried about farming times, maybe you should stop worrying about farming and just play for fun. Which, last time I checked, that was the whole objective of video games in general - To have fun.

[Troublechutor]

 

If you're worried about farming times, maybe you should stop worrying about farming and just play for fun. Which, last time I checked, that was the whole objective of video games in general - To have fun.

Heresy!  BURN HIM!

 

@OP : No, warframe doesn't alienate anyone, you just realized far too late that you've played out the game (what there is of it) before the devs had a chance to get ahead of you.  The fact that you've built everything in the game and spent actual money on it pretty much undermines the ENTIRE premise of your post.  You were not alienated until you hit a wall-of-farming that wasn't fun or compelling, and beyond this wall were more weapons to run the same missions over and over and over and over again... in short, the game becomes extremely boring once you pass the finish line.

 

Not unlike every other open-ended game out there... when the challenge and novelty run dry, you move on to another game or come up with reasons to stay in it for longer (I wonder what wave I can reach on xini with only bo-staff?).  

 

So, you have money to spend on a beta, you had time to farm everything else in the game, now suddenly its alienating you?  LOL no.

[Mhak]

If that was consistent, okay. The main problem - it isn't. When I needed Cont. Module for frame month ago I farmed for it like a couple of hours. for 1 module. When I needed it  week ago for Orokin catalyst I farmed 2 days. for 1 module.

Yeah man, same stuff happens to me. It's no fun and it means it sometimes takes us days to get something other people can get by just farming for 6 hours in a row. But again, that just means it's slower for us. We're still not prevented from getting nice things.

[wfrawn]

farming for mats is time consuming BS

 

Otoh, as any mmo/rpg this is the sort of game where most players spend most of their time playing the game on farming. By the time we're done farming we've done all the content so many times that it has become a chore, we've reach the end of the treadmill, we've filled the time sink, and we move on to the next mmo/rpg.

[stivoknis]

Framing for a single material can be really annoying.  If someone does not have several hours to kill each day, getting a specific material could take days.  That's why I think there should be a boss that drops a rare material, like a control module or neural sensors, 100% of the time.  The boss could be very difficult and take a long time to beat, say 30 minutes.  While a lucky person could get more control modules farming (the relatively boring and easy) hyena, a person who has dedicated himself/herself to reach and beat this tougher boss would get what they need without all of the RNG bullcrap. 

[wfrawn]

They should be called Rare an that's how it is in 90% MMO. Rare doesn't mean they appear rarely, it means they are hard to get. Bosses should be hard to beat ( that's not the case > problem), thus limiting your ability to get Rare resources.

 

In most mmo's "rare" mats have a low drop rate, including from bosses.

If rare mats would only be hard to get because the boss is hard, that would mean missions/quests to take out the boss should fail more often than succeed.

But as it is in most mmo's an on-level team is pretty much guaranteed to succeed in taking out a boss even if that boss is hard.

 

you still get only 1 per run at best

 

Doesn't matter much because you usually need very few of those 'rare' mats/drops. How many Ember system blueprints do you need?

 

Edited July 12, 2013 by wfrawn

[wfrawn]

a person who has dedicated himself/herself to reach and beat this tougher boss would get what they need without all of the RNG bullcrap. 

 

But it doesn't take much to dedicate oneself to that.

Essentially every player will reach and beat that tough boss after a few tries at most.

[Soaron]

Stop crying. EVERY ONLINE GAME out there is ruled by people that don't work that can spend hours and hours playing. They live in a world of their own, so let them be. They populate every online space, it's now a fact of life.

ATM I have the luxury of investing more hours since I'm a freelance worker, but when I worked full time I didn't care that my online games were populated by 13 year old masters of everything. It's just something you have to live with.

 

In fact, enjoy the challenge while it lasts. If you keep at it, sooner rather than later your frame is going to be Maxed out and you're going to be looking for the hardest missions to just have fun.

[LongDraw]

WAIT...

 

is there a hobby that you can excel at that doesn't require time?

 

Cuz I work too; I'm a supervisor. I am rank 11 and I have all weapons at rank 30 except Sandal (all that I have access to) and I want that hobby that takes none of my time and I can still get what everyone else has regardless of how much tume they spend doing it.

Supervisor of what exactly?  I only ask because as a Corporate IT Operations Coordinator and Asset Coordinator for a multi-billion dollar company, I question your simplistic and unprofessional writing style.  Oh, and I'm rank 9 currently with all but 1 frame to 30 (some multiple times over) and about 90% of the weapons in the game ranked to 30 (some again multiple times over).

[Neuhnee]

There is absolutly nothing wrong with the drop rates in this game. The problem is in *how* people try to farm. People think farming in this game is rushing to a boss, nuking it, rushing to the exit and then being &!$$ed that they didn't get the mat they wanted from *one kill*. The fact of the matter is, I get way more rare mats from trash. The last time I killed Vor he droped Ferrite, and I got Morphics from two seperate Lancers on the way out.

 

I only play two or three hours a day, and the only thing I 'farm' are Frame Prints, but there's never been a time I got the prints for something and didn't have enough mats to build it. Hell, I have 16 Gallium right now, after building a few potatoes,  and I've only killed Nef and Regor three or four times each.

 

A typical day of WarFrame for me looks like this:

 

Run the highest level boss the gear I'm currently leveling can handle

(Before I had all the missions opened I would run one a day to progress my map)

Switch to one of my 30s and run whichever boss is dropping prints for the frame I want to build next

Maybe run an alert or two if they're rewarding something I want

 

If you're having fun playing the game then the mats will pile up without your even noticing. If you're not having fun and you're resorting to 'farming' becasue you think the next gun will somehow magicly make the game fun again, it won't.