Some Feedback on Rivens

[Prof_Blocks_007]

I've been cycling various Rivens, and have found that weapons tend to struggle without a 'perfect roll'. In Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 1! it was mentioned that 'perfect rolls' are not the goal behind the system.

On 14/11/2016 at 11:04 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

The exponential Cycling costs are there to encourage players to try the existing stats before they embark on the journey to the ‘perfect roll’. For those of you who want to find the best Mod possible, that avenue is available to you, but that is not the goal behind this system.

I've put together a video showcasing the performance of 8 Riven modified weapons. Rivens and builds: http://imgur.com/a/jK6oJ

Spoiler

 

 

'Strong/Perfect' Rivens

The Buzlok is turned into a beastly crit weapon, in a similar fashion to the Soma (I haven't Forma'd the Soma/Soma Prime, so I don't have a comparison).

The Tetra Riven upgrades the Prisma variant into a status/crit monster (perhaps too much of an upgrade).

The Twin Gremlins have become a weaker version of the Akstiletto Prime with the Riven, although the reduced flight speed makes them awkward to use at range without Zephyr's Jet Stream or losing damage to fit Lethal Momentum.

The Penta Riven makes it crit viable with a combo of critical chance and multishot stats. The multishot also increases the status probability per shot as well, increasing the viability of a status build.

The Vulkar Wraith is changed completely, as the Riven removes all impact damage (225 of 250 base damage), turning it into a heavily elemental damage focused weapon. Combined with a Gas build, it becomes an AoE sniper.

All five of the above are really good rolls that transform the weapons into Sortie viable machines (although the Twin Gremlins struggle somewhat -  which is more of a problem with low base damage).

 

Not-so-good Rivens

The Daikyu Riven is good, but could be considerably better. It's an improvment over non-riven builds, but it's not a 'catch up with the meta' gamechanger.

The same applies to the Dera Riven. Although it doesn't struggle as much as the Daikyu, it's still underwhelming when compared to a non-Riven Braton Prime (neutral disposition). In hindsight, I should have included a Braton Prime build for comparison.

The Ogris Riven is a strong roll, but the base weapon is slow and still struggles in Sorties without heavy buffs from powers (e.g. Vex Armor). This is largely an issue with base stats - slow speed, low damage (compared to its speed) and an unusable 5% base critical chance.

The Tonkor is used to compare Riven Ogris to 'meta'.

 

Where are Riven modified weapons intended to be on the 'power scale'?

Is this system intended to replace buffing sub-par weapons (e.g. Vasto Prime, AkJagara and Drakgoon) up to par with 'high/top tier' weapons? Or are they intended to be improvements to weapons, even if they leave them in an underpowered state?

Without a 'near/perfect roll', most strong disposition weapons struggle in Sorties, and others (e.g. Embolist, pre-buff Ogris and pre-buff Sicarus Prime) struggle even with a 'perfect roll' due to low base stats.

Getting a perfect roll heavily relies on luck, and the range of 'ideal/perfect rolls' varies by weapon. The current cycling costs are much, much better than the original costs, but are still rather expensive, given the number of cycles a Riven can hit without anything game-changing. I, personally, haven't felt encouraged by the scaling costs to try out stats: curiosity and the stats themselves have filled that role. Cycling Rivens would be significantly improved by capping cycling costs at 900, or introducing a way to reduce the cycling cost via use of the Riven.

Either way, super-underpowered weapons could really do with base stat buffs, in addition to the Riven system. This has already happened with Sicarus Prime, so I have hopes that other weapons can be buffed as well. Update! U20 introduced buffs to 10 underpowered weapons: The Miter, Harpak, Hind, Panthera, Paracyst, Mutalist Quanta, Buzlok, Glaxion, Ogris and Attica. For Rivens, these changes are really good, as more stats become useful for the weapons to have on a Riven. For example, before the buffs, critical chance and critical damage stats on a Miter Riven were useless (other than with flat critical bonuses, like Cat's Eye and the Mutalist Quanta orb). Post-buffs, critical chance/damage stats on Miter Rivens can be of use - they won't be super-useful, but not something to object to, especially with the halved charge time. The Ogris and Glaxion lack usable crit stats, but make up for it with strong status potential (although questionable for beam weapons).

I've made another video showcasing the buffed Buzlok and Ogris, although the Ogris isn't a direct comparison, as the Riven has been cycled. Rivens and builds: http://imgur.com/a/smDNO

Spoiler

 

 

The massively increased status chance from 10% to 35% and significantly reduced charge time from 1.50s to 0.80s are the highlights of the Ogris buff, with the increased flight speed, damage and blast radius being the icing on the (rather explosive) cake. As for the Riven, the extra Toxin damage increases the proc weighting of Corrosive/Gas, and increases the damage of Gas proc DoTs. The increased status chance brings it to 100%, proc'ing on everything in the blast radius, which is deadly against groups when using Gas. The reload speed is a decent bonus, reducing the downtime of the weapon. The negative status duration can be compensated for by using Continuous Misery (+100% status duration), but the 'loss' of a slot hurts somewhat.

 

Changing Dispositions

With these buffs, potential changes to Rivens were mentioned, but none have happened yet (as far as I know). I'm going to use my Buzlok Riven as an example for the next part. Before the buffs my Buzlok Riven allowed it to compete with the Soma Prime, even with the reduced fire rate (compensated for with Speed Trigger), at around 25,000 sustained damage per second (including reloads in the calculation). This has doubled to ~50,000 with the buff, which is rather insane, even with the Buzlok's slow flight speed. The burst DPS (not including reload time in the calculation) before was ~30,000. Post-buffs, it's at ~70,000, which increases to ~90,000 on tagged enemies (the critical chance on tagged targets seems to cap at 100%).

This raises the question: what if the negative fire rate stat was a different one? Zoom has no effect on DPS, so negative zoom (instead of fire rate) would allow the Buzlok to deal ~69,000 sustained DPS (with Bladed Rounds instead of Speed Trigger) - a 38% increase. If the negative was 90% multishot instead (I don't know what this stat would be at with Buzlok's Riven Disposition, so this is just an example stat), the sustained DPS would drop to ~36,000 (again, with Bladed Rounds instead of Speed Trigger) - a 28% decrease. Obviously, there is going to be a huge difference between cycles, but a Riven that enables a sub-par weapon to compete is fun to use, even if the mod could be improved considerably.

What would the Disposition be reduced to? Balance wise, if the Disposition is based around the 'best' roll, anything weaker than high-end rolls would be underwhelming, but no rolls would make weapons overpowered. If the Disposition is based around 'good, but not-the-best' rolls, there would be a wider range of 'weapon-reviving' Rivens, however, high-end rolls would push weapons into overpowered territory. The power differences from weapon to weapon are not going to be completely balanced, especially with Rivens (at least in their current form), but some form of balance between weapons wouldn't be a bad thing. That said, it was stated in Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 1! that content will not be balanced around Riven mods, so perhaps only excessively powerful Riven modified weapons will be toned down (e.g. my Buzlok).

On 14/11/2016 at 11:04 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Warframe content will not be balanced around Riven Mods, but Riven Mods will be balanced within their own ecosystem.

The presence of a negative stat on a Riven increases the positive stats, regardless of whether it affects the weapon's performance or not. Minus zoom is even considered a positive stat for weapons with enhanced zoom by default (e.g Seer, Daikyu, Snipers). I have covered the effects of negative stats on weapons in the stats list below. Limiting the values of 'killer negatives', and changing the values of the positive stats based on the type of negative stat would be a good way to change this (e.g negative damage would increase the positive stats more than negative zoom).

 

Potentially Unrewarding

If the Riven system is simply intended to be random improvements to weapons, whether game-changing or not, then I guess so be it, although it'll still suck to see such grind be unrewarding (without massive luck) compared to faint disposition/'meta' weapons. I'm not against grind - it's the nature of Warframe, and F2P games in general - but there comes a point where there's just too much grind, especially when the grind has little to no "consolation prizes". Cycling a mod 30+ times and getting underwhelming rolls that still leave the weapon in a sub-par state just feels like a massive waste of Kuva.

For example, with Primes and Relics, 'unwanted' Relics can be used for Forma Blueprints and Ducats. The undesired parts from refined relics can be used for ducats. With Rivens, the Endo value of the mod increases by a bit with each cycle, but it's hardly anything compared to the investment made.

 

Stats

(Note that the presence of a negative stat on a Riven increases the positive stats).

• Damage/Multishot are obviously desirable stats. Can ruin a Riven if negative.
• Elemental damage is useful, and can further increase elemental proc chance bias. Can restrict elemental combos depending on the weapon/build though (e.g. Cold when you wanted a pure Toxin Acrid build).
• Physical damage is of similar usefulness to elemental damage, although it is of no use to elemental weapons. Negative physical damage stats can increase the elemental proc bias (see the Vulkar Riven above for an example). Free negative stat on elemental weapons (and physical damage weapons depending on stats).
• Critical Chance/Critical Damage stats are high enough on Strong Rivens to make weapons with 10%/1.5x critical stats viable for critical builds. Damaging to the Riven if negative. 'Free' negatives/useless stats for weapons with awful/no critical stats.
• Status chance is good, and the stats are high enough to make weapons with a decent fire rate/status chance worth building for status. Also good for getting shotguns to the 100% status mark with less elemental combinations from 60% elemental + 60% status mods. Damaging to status-oriented weapons if negative.
• Fire Rate is useful for slow weapons and great for bows (due to the 2x bonus). Negative fire rate stats can be recovered from if the weapon and the rest of the Riven is good (see Buzlok Riven above).
• Faction damage is useful for covering weaknesses (e.g. Puncture vs Corpus shields) or enhancing strengths (e.g. Slash vs Infested) of a weapon's main damage type.
• Reload/Magazine Size bonuses are useful, especially on weapons with small magazines/long reloads. Damaging to the weapon if negative. Magazine size is a free negative/useless stat on Bows (not crossbows).
• Punch Through is useful for everything except explosive weapons, as it can cause them to fire through the floor/walls in some areas.
• Flight Speed is useful for weapons with slow projectiles or low range (e.g. Penta, Stug and Buzlok). Damaging to projectile weapons if negative. Free negative/useless stat for hitscan weapons (with the exception of shotguns, as flight speed changes the fall-off distance).
• Recoil stats on Rivens can completely negate recoil, which can make weapons like the Dual Cestra much nicer to use. Weapons with notable recoil become awkward to use with the negative stat (increased recoil). Weapons with little or no recoil get a 'useless' stat or a free negative.
• Status Duration ultimately isn't of much use. Cold/Radiation procs will last longer, which is good for some CC, but Damage over Time (DoT) effects already last long enough. If an enemy outlasts a DoT proc, won't make much of a difference to extend it, as the proc isn't worth building around. Most enemies will die before the procs expire. Negative status duration is a damaging stat to status focused weapons (other than Corrosive/Blast/Electric/Impact, as they have no duration). Weapons not focused on Status will be largely unaffected by negative status duration. I can't think of any suggestions for changing status duration.
• Zoom stats are awkward for almost all weapons, particularly snipers. It increases the attack range of sentinels, but that's about it. Negative zoom can be considered a positive stat in most (non-sentinel) cases. I can't think of anything to suggest for Zoom Riven stats.
• Ammo maximum also isn't of much use. It merely increases the amount of time before you run out of ammo, and is (presumably) useless for sentinels. Negative stats can be large enough to remove all reserve ammo, requiring the use of another mod to offset that. Ammo maximum could be improved by adding an increased ammo pickup effect to it, so if you had +50% ammo maximum, it would add 50% to your reserve ammo, and 50% to ammo pickups. These are example stats, and how they stack with Ammo Case, Ammo Mutation and Ammo Scavenger Auras is up to you. This would apply to negative ammo maximum as well, reducing the amount of ammo from pickups.

Negatives could do with being capped (e.g. -50% fire rate, -50% ammo maximum, -50% status duration and -50% flight speed).

Accuracy/Spread could fit into Rivens, and would fill a similar role to Recoil stats.

A way to change the polarity of Riven mods (or making them a 'universal' polarity) would be nice, but not a major issue.

I've seen many suggestions for selective locking of stats when cycling Rivens, but this doesn't stick with 'perfect rolls' not being the goal (at least not currently). If 'perfect rolls' do become an 'enabled' goal, perhaps adding the ability to lock stats based on cycle count? For example, at 10 or more rolls, you can lock 1 stat, at 20 or more you can lock 2, and at 30 or more you can lock 3. (In theory, an empty stat could count as a lockable stat). This would allow both luck and a sense of progression with Rivens. This particular method also has the bonus of being somewhat retroactive.

 

Acquisition

The 'drop' rate from Sorties feels ok, but getting an undesired Riven that also has little to no value in trading sucks. A weekly mission (Given by Samodeus, maybe?) that enables you to convert an unveiled Riven into a veiled, uncycled Riven (either of the same or different weapon type) would be a great addition. This 'Riven Reset' mission could have a pick-one-of-four screen (like Relics in a Squad, except solo), which would give a bit more influence to the player and reduce the chance of getting multiple undesired Rivens in a row when 'resetting'. This would keep undesirable Rivens in the 'pool' for those that want them, without making them a 'dead end' for those that don't.

A separate Rivens trading chat would also be a great addition. Even better would be a Buying/Selling Riven chat and a Trading Riven-to-Riven chat. (The same could be done for the general trading chat, but that's a topic for another thread). Update! Trade chat filters have been announced. These could really help with searching for Rivens to buy/trade for.

The current cap of 60 Rivens is (eventually) not going to be enough, but raising it will further increase the load on the servers and the time it takes to open the modding section (and other actions that involve opening a player's Riven collection). Would it be possible to implement a "Riven Stasis" function? It would involve storing the mods in a separate 'section', which wouldn't be read when accessing a player's 'active' Rivens. This "Riven Stasis" collection would be accessed to store and retrieve Rivens that you don't want to dissolve/sell, but aren't using currently. These slots could cost less Platinum (e.g. 15p for 3 slots) than 'active' riven slots. This could also include a Kuva cost for moving Rivens in and out of stasis (I think 1,000 would be a fair price) to deter using Riven Stasis in place of active slots (alternatively, a timer could be used, with Kuva as the rush cost). This may be impossible to do though, depending on how things are stored (I have no knowledge of data/storage servers, so I can only guess).

 

Conclusion

Ultimately, Rivens can indeed revive older weapons in a non-static way, but they're not quite there yet. A reduced cycling cost and some tweaks to the stats should form them into a system that can do as intended and feel both rewarding and fun to invest into.

 

Thank you for reading!

Edited May 24, 2017 by Prof_Blocks_007
Updated for U20 weapon buffs + Riven Stasis suggestion + Buffed Ogris and Buzlok vid + Chat Filters

[(PSN)auwsomestgamer]

TL;DR all of it, but I get the feeling you're kind of wondering why they introduced rivens, what they're meant to do that sort of thing. As far as I'm aware, riven mods were introduced to get people to try new weapons and experiment with them. However, in my opinion I think it was just a bit of a cash grab. Overpowered weapons became even more overpowered, and the unused weapons couldn't be saved. As far as I'm concerned, a +217% Crit Chance stat on a weapon with 0% crit chance = .... 0%. Riven disposition just made god roll stats on good weapons even more expensive. Then they introduced the Riven slot thing, and it really just reinforced my ideas. I think maybe it was a good idea in theory (buffing unused weapons), but it didn't really work out in practice. I think if they wanted people to try the other weapons they should have just reworked/buffed them, and although it might have been more work, I think it would have been better. Thanks :)

[-N7-Leonhart]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)auwsomestgamer said:

Overpowered weapons became even more overpowered

Hmmm, no, 'overpowered' (aka overused) weapons got Rivens so mediocre I can't even bear to look at them. Maybe, just maybe, with some perfect roll like 2 perfect positives and one meaningless negative to increase the positives, you could get a Riven that is slightly better than a normal mod you can put there.

Edited February 19, 2017 by -BM-Leonhart

[(PSN)auwsomestgamer]

14 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Hmmm, no, 'overpowered' (aka overused) weapons got Rivens so mediocre I can't even bear to look at them. Maybe, just maybe, with some perfect roll like 2 perfect positives and one meaningless negative to increase the positives, you could get a Riven that is slightly better than a normal mod you can put there.

Not sure what you mean here. I will give an example - Vectis Prime. I rolled +Damage +Toxin +Crit Dmg on it a while back and I literally shat myself, cause it took me like 18 rolls or something. Anyway, the point is that this one riven essentially does the work of Serration, Bladed Rounds and Pathogen Rounds in a third of the space. I really don't see how that is 'slightly better' than a normal mod. Also, yesterday I saw a guy selling a Cernos Riven +Crit Chance +Crit Dmg +Multishot (for like 1500pl or something), so yes I do think that 

35 minutes ago, (PS4)auwsomestgamer said:

Overpowered weapons became even more overpowered

This is just opinion though, thanks for sharing yours :)

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, (PS4)auwsomestgamer said:

Not sure what you mean here. I will give an example - Vectis Prime. I rolled +Damage +Toxin +Crit Dmg on it a while back and I literally shat myself, cause it took me like 18 rolls or something. Anyway, the point is that this one riven essentially does the work of Serration, Bladed Rounds and Pathogen Rounds in a third of the space. I really don't see how that is 'slightly better' than a normal mod. Also, yesterday I saw a guy selling a Cernos Riven +Crit Chance +Crit Dmg +Multishot (for like 1500pl or something), so yes I do think that 

Vectis is not Faint Disposition, so it doesn't fall into the category of the overused, Faint Disposition weapons. Also, I can't exactly call Vectis overpowered to begin with. I always considered it performs significantly more poorly than Rubico, Vulkar (which also have better Rivens) or especially Lanka.

[(PSN)auwsomestgamer]

6 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Vectis is not Faint Disposition, so it doesn't fall into the category of the overused, Faint Disposition weapons. Also, I can't exactly call Vectis overpowered to begin with. I always considered it performs significantly more poorly than Rubico, Vulkar (which also have better Rivens) or especially Lanka.

It was an example. If you would like a better one, what about a tonkor riven with +Crit chance +Damage +reload? I am sure tonkor is both overused and faint disposition. Or simulor with +Damage +cold +crit damage (I gave this to a friend because I don't like the simulor). Again, overused and faint disposition. All that I'm trying to say is that they are very strong mods that unnecessarily make strong weapons stronger.  

Edit: And don't usually make weak weapons any better. 

Edited February 19, 2017 by (PS4)auwsomestgamer

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, (PS4)auwsomestgamer said:

It was an example. If you would like a better one, what about a tonkor riven with +Crit chance +Damage +reload? I am sure tonkor is both overused and faint disposition. Or simulor with +Damage +cold +crit damage (I gave this to a friend because I don't like the simulor). Again, overused and faint disposition. All that I'm trying to say is that they are very strong mods that unnecessarily make strong weapons stronger.  

Tonkor with a 3 positives Riven? Heh, that means each of them is smaller than if it had only 2 positives. Going by your example, it would probably look like +30% crit chance, +30% damage, +10% reload speed with it's very faint disposition or something like that. And then you have 'normal' mods that add +150% crit chance or +165% damage (heavy caliber) / cold damage (P Cryo Rounds). Now, I wonder which I should slot....

[(PSN)auwsomestgamer]

17 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Tonkor with a 3 positives Riven? Heh, that means each of them is smaller than if it had only 2 positives. Going by your example, it would probably look like +30% crit chance, +30% damage, +10% reload speed with it's very faint disposition or something like that. And then you have 'normal' mods that add +150% crit chance or +165% damage (heavy caliber) / cold damage (P Cryo Rounds). Now, I wonder which I should slot....

This is painful >_> Ok first of all, they were not the stats. It was more like +56 Crit +73 Damage +24 reload. Second, crit chance. You need Point strike and argon scope to hit red crits right? But since point strike gets you to 87.5% crit chance, you really only need less than 20% to hit red. Argon scope also means you have to hit headshots AND be aiming to get the crit buff, while the riven gives straight up crit buff. So now we dont need argon scope. Third, damage. I actually started laughing when I read this. Why would you take out serration or heavy cal?? No, the riven adds to the damage buff. We get Serration + heavy cal + riven to get nearly 350% dmg increase. Also, you don't need to include a reload mod into the build, saving a mod slot. I honestly don't see how you think this mod is useless, smh please don't reply and embarrass yourself further. :| 

Edit: 1. Even with 30% crit chance it makes the weapon red crit viable and eliminates the need for argon scope. 

2. I never said replace mods like serration with the riven. 

Edited February 19, 2017 by (PS4)auwsomestgamer

[-N7-Leonhart]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)auwsomestgamer said:

This is painful >_> Ok first of all, they were not the stats. It was more like +56 Crit +73 Damage +24 reload. Second, crit chance. You need Point strike and argon scope to hit red crits right? But since point strike gets you to 87.5% crit chance, you really only need less than 20% to hit red. Argon scope also means you have to hit headshots AND be aiming to get the crit buff, while the riven gives straight up crit buff. So now we dont need argon scope. Third, damage. I actually started laughing when I read this. Why would you take out serration or heavy cal?? No, the riven adds to the damage buff. We get Serration + heavy cal + riven to get nearly 350% dmg increase. Also, you don't need to include a reload mod into the build, saving a mod slot. I honestly don't see how you think this mod is useless, smh please don't reply and embarrass yourself further. :| 

Those 3 stats you mentioned are also probably coupled with a negative stat, since they are too 'high' (lmao) for a Faint weapons, and I don't need to mention the luck you require to roll a meaningless negative.

And also, you mentioned why you would not have stuff like HC to begin with? Well, if I can think of a really good reason, that would be the space. Crit weapons lack this one severely, so it's very natural to not be able to fit stuff like Heavy Caliber, if you are carrying an useless Riven there. And not only Heavy Caliber. I can think of at least 5-6 better mod to slot instead of that useless Riven, like Bladed Rounds, Primed Cryo Rounds, Primed Fast Hands, Firestorm, etc.

No matter what, you can't say that Rivens like this make already 'overpowered' (overused) weapons even more OP, when there are Strong Disposition Rivens with stats like +250% damage + 220% crit chance or other crazy stuff like that, literally 4 times as good.

Edited February 19, 2017 by -BM-Leonhart

[(PSN)auwsomestgamer]

15 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Those 3 stats you mentioned are also probably coupled with a negative stat, since they are too 'high' (lmao) for a Faint weapons, and I don't need to mention the luck you require to roll a meaningless negative.

And also, you mentioned why you would not have stuff like HC to begin with? Well, if I can think of a really good reason, that would be the space. Crit weapons lack this one severely, so it's very natural to not be able to fit stuff like Heavy Caliber, if you are carrying an useless Riven there. And not only Heavy Caliber. I can think of at least 5-6 better mod to slot instead of that useless Riven, like Bladed Rounds, Primed Cryo Rounds, Primed Fast Hands, Firestorm, etc.

No matter what, you can't say that Rivens like this make already 'overpowered' (overused) weapons even more OP, when there are Strong Disposition Rivens with stats like +250% damage + 220% crit chance or other crazy stuff like that, literally 4 times as good.

Seriously -_-

Ok, once more for the dummies. I'm not replacing mods, I'm adding the riven to get better stats. I came up with a build for you. Heavy Cal, Serration, Riven, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Bladed Rounds and 2 elementals. In case you can't count, thats 8. Your build, you need argon scope, so you cant actually fit primed hands in (replacing the riven with argon). A riven with +250% dmg is useless on a weapon with like 100 base damage and no crit. Also, there was no negative, but even if there was one it would be meaningless like -status duration. 

Edit: "+ 220% crit chance or other crazy stuff like that, literally 4 times as good." That will be pretty useful on a weapon with 0% crit chnace, won't it?

Edited February 19, 2017 by (PS4)auwsomestgamer

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 minute ago, (PS4)auwsomestgamer said:

Seriously -_-

Ok, once more for the dummies. I'm not replacing mods, I'm adding the riven to get better stats. I came up with a build for you. Heavy Cal, Serration, Riven, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Bladed Rounds and 2 elementals. In case you can't count, thats 8. Your build, you need argon scope, so you cant actually fit primed hands in (replacing the riven with argon). A riven with +250% dmg is useless on a weapon with like 100 base damage and no crit. Also, there was no negative, but even if there was one it would be meaningless like -status duration. 

Where is Split Chamber? That mod is exactly +90% more total damage. Is a total novice move to remove that one. And please 250% damage useless? There is no weapon that a large amount of damage is useless for. In that case would you call Serration a total waste of time too?

And I'm sorry, but I will not believe you that a mod with stats like that for a Faint weapon exists, without a downside to increase the positives. I will need a picture as proof to ever believe something like that. After all, I know enough about Rivens to tell you the exact stat types and the approximate values after only hearing the name.

[(PSN)auwsomestgamer]

17 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Where is Split Chamber?

34 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

I can think of at least 5-6 better mod to slot instead of that useless Riven, like Bladed Rounds, Primed Cryo Rounds, Primed Fast Hands, Firestorm, etc.

As you can see, it was on your list as well. Serration, Split Chamber, Riven, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Bladed Rounds, and either 2 elementals, or 1 and Heavy Cal. Pretty sure that still beats primed fast hands and firestorm. 

And yes, it's true that +dmg would be useful, but what about crit chance, crit damage, status chance? All these are useless on weapons that have low base stats. And there are many of these rivens that exist - obviously I could be wrong about the stats. But you need less than 20% crit chance with point strike, so I could have 20% crit chance +dmg and anything above 30% for reload beats fast hands (primed fast hands maybe not). But honestly, even a 50% damage buff on this weapon is powerful, along with red crits and reload speed, it adds up to OP. Anyway, if these other weapons have such good rivens, why doesn't everyone use them?

 

 

Edited February 19, 2017 by (PS4)auwsomestgamer

[Kurstl]

Not that I care much, but the Tonkor riven stats seem ok, got one with 62 crit chance, 67 electricity and +status - cant remember how much as its useless, but its still three positive stats that make that riven a very good replacement for critical delay. Now imagine the stats if it was minus status... too bad it isnt :)

[notlamprey]

As stated before, Riven Mods were a mistake.