Frames are independant creatures

[Lil_Pump_prime]

Well said 

[SilvaDreams]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)IroncladBomber said:

Independent? No. Sapient? No. Sentient? Maybe.

Frames are Bio-Mechanical Constructs. Like Golems, ours are made of supposedly made of a Stable version of the Technocyte Virus (AKA Infestation). Save for Nidus which appears to be a highly unstable strain, but less infectious. Combined with advanced technologies, which border on the Arcane. Our Frames are as I said, simply Golems of Flesh and Metal.

Now, while I am sure the frame in the Vaguest of senses can perceive the world around them, and might have some form of Ancestral Hive-Mind which links the New Model Frames back to their Original Prime Versions, which could give the frames their individual "personalities". Such as Valkyr, being tortured by Alad V is supposedly what made that frame so adept at Violence and Rage. Which caused all subsequent models to suffer from that defect as well. Including Prime versions that were constructed afterwards. Though I don't know if that is how it works for sure.

The Second Dream did show our frames breaking War while not under direct control of the Operator, now this could be a sign of greater awareness and sentience, or it could be the operator in desperation and fear was able to control the frame from that distance, albeit from a greatly diminished level. We need more info to know which is correct.

I personally prefer to believe that the Frames have some level of self awareness and intelligence, however base or primal that intelligence might be, like in the Rhino Prime Codex, early prototypes of frames were savage, infested monstrosities that were driven by their baser needs, and a sort of ancestral memory, which caused the Prototype Rhino to recognize the ones who had tortured and likely Killed the once that came before it.

While I agree with most of this there are some errors.

The codex entry for Valkyr is a personal observation from us operators before we were awoken and thus thought the frame and person were one in the same and assumed her powered were altered due to the torcher.

As for the Rhino Prime codex entry that was not a Warframe, it was merely an infested creature that some insane Sob let loose on a hunch and led it to where we slept.

[Arkay]

I honestly expected the War Within to be a battle between Tenno and Warframe, not a trip into a Tenno's mind.

[SilvaDreams]

2 minutes ago, Retvik said:

I honestly expected the War Within to be a battle between Tenno and Warframe, not a trip into a Tenno's mind.

But it is the most literal meaning, a war within... Yourself.

Otherwise it would have been Civil War.

Edited March 8, 2017 by SilvaDreams

[(PSN)IroncladBomber]

5 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

While I agree with most of this there are some errors.

The codex entry for Valkyr is a personal observation from us operators before we were awoken and thus thought the frame and person were one in the same and assumed her powered were altered due to the torcher.

As for the Rhino Prime codex entry that was not a Warframe, it was merely an infested creature that some insane Sob let loose on a hunch and led it to where we slept.

Ah, I knew I made a few Mistakes, thanks for Correcting them.

[Arkay]

Just now, SilvaDreams said:

But it is the most litterally meaning, a war within... Yourself.

Otherwise it would have been Civil War.

You're right, but a Civil War would more be a war between us and the Lotus. The War Within was more about the queens @(*()$ with us and having to go through a crappy dream obstacle course in order to wake up. It's not an actual war per se, it's subterfuge and propaganda.

[SilvaDreams]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)IroncladBomber said:

Ah, I knew I made a few Mistakes, thanks for Correcting them.

No problem, these are two common fumbles people make with the lore.

Though I have a feeling the Infested have a bit more of a past with the Orokin that Heleminth only secured a bit more. It's why we see the strange almost tree like growths everywhere in the Orokin tiles and running through our ships like power cables....

And then Ordis' mention of the infested room being required for life support and maintaining the Warframes. It suddenly fits together why no one can remember where the Infested came from, because it has been their biological life support systems for who knows how long. Creating your own biome with a evolving biomass that recycles the air and water and itself is so much more efficient than machines that break down and suffer from wear and tear.

All it would take is a slight tweak and suddenly that Benign biomass suddenly becomes an evolving bio-weapon.

[AetherAids]

thanks for lore advice everyone feel like I learned alot

Edited March 8, 2017 by AetherAids

[AetherAids]

9 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

While I agree with most of this there are some errors.

The codex entry for Valkyr is a personal observation from us operators before we were awoken and thus thought the frame and person were one in the same and assumed her powered were altered due to the torcher.

As for the Rhino Prime codex entry that was not a Warframe, it was merely an infested creature that some insane Sob let loose on a hunch and led it to where we slept.

Im pretty sure the codex entry referred to rhino it even describes it using iron skin in the line "glinting like steel" and "its skin changes flowing like mercury" and the character says "hes never seen it free" and "I have rejected and created countless like it" reffering to it being an orokin prototype of rhino prime gone wrong but please correct me if im wrong

[Blakrana]

38 minutes ago, AetherAids said:

Im pretty sure the codex entry referred to rhino it even describes it using iron skin in the line "glinting like steel" and "its skin changes flowing like mercury" and the character says "hes never seen it free" and "I have rejected and created countless like it" reffering to it being an orokin prototype of rhino prime gone wrong but please correct me if im wrong

Warframes are the result of whatever that creature was + Tenno in Transference. The RPC is where the distinct projects overlapped and became something overall worse for the Tenno and Margulis, essentially. Remember, Transference was a therapy programme before the Orokin abused it to modify whatever that 'creature' was into the Warframe. Everything changed after the RPC though.

Whatever that creature was, there's logically a level of iteration that refines it from whatever it was into what we consider the Rhino now, as all Warframes are designed with Transference in mind, whilst the creature wasn't; as noted it's only because of the creature being free that Davis could test his theory...implying he had a hand in unleashing it.

9 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

It's why we see the strange almost tree like growths everywhere in the Orokin tiles and running through our ships like power cables....

Arboriforms are a ubiquitous Orokin biotechnology it seems...and if you recall the Pendula on Lua, when broken you can see they're much closer in appearance to Derelict Arboriforms, tainted by Infestation overexposure. Whatever the Orokin were using, there's a curious link between Arboriforms and Infestation, perhaps.

And then as noted, Helminth's chamber is very much a biome: The circulating water aerates it, making it better for the fish and plant roots. The fish can eat decayed matter and such, and the plants just enjoy whatever nutrition they get, be it from the Infested biomass itself or the death of the fish. Maybe some of the credits we put into gear Ordis uses to buy in fish, after all...

There's a curious question when it comes to Orokin technology; for how far they pushed the boundary of technology and biology, they still seemed very insistent on keeping it far from the norm. Indeed, only the Orokin caste itself played with the means to go beyond their biological limits...but not to a technorganic transformation. Granted...perhaps that's a secret of the true elite, of the Executors alone, considering Ballas and the rest got up laughing immediately after Ordan's attempt at assassination, something unlikely to be plausible for a Continuity ritual in such a small space of time.

[Crashen]

I kind of think the orokin arboriforms are "tamed" infestation. The infestation, free of humanoid/robotic hosts looks distinctly plant-like. Or fungusy. I wouldnt be surprised if infested tissue was the key to "carrying a charge" of void energy so to speak, and thus was used like power cables.

It makes me wonder at the relation between the infestation and the void, and make no mistake, there IS something there. Helminth states that he fears nothing save the void demon. Now whether its the operator he fears, or the void energy that the operator is suffused with, i dont know.

Personally, I like to think that the technocyte virus came about from early void research. Perhaps infestation is the "body" and the void is the "soul" or mind. Early research brought the body over, without the mind, and so the body formed a mind of it's own. Now the body enjoys its autonomy, and fears the void knowing that the void-mind can reassert control of the body.

That would explain a lot of questions, actually. Why tenno could pacify proto-rhino, why the infestation tries so hard to get into our minds and pull the flesh of their flesh back, why Helminth addresses Nidus The Warframe as if he were Nidus The Entity, and why Helminth views the operator seperately from the warframes.

Lets take it a step further. There are a lot of physics-defying material the orokin used. Ayatans, for example. They look like gold and ceramic, but they move and bend like they are puddy. These are powered by ayatan stars, which glow gold or blue. In war within, the massive ayatan sculpture is inert until the operator charges it with void energy.

What if Ayatan sculptures, and pretty much everything else crafted by the Orokin utizes Forma? Forma, after all, is a strange material that can reshape other objects. And what if Forma is actually a specialized, stabilized strain of technocyte?

If the Golden Maw (dream sequence and symbolism aside) were to be made utilizing Forma, it might explain how we could use transferance to take it over.

The flora designed to grow over earth could have been spliced or modified with technocyte (not unlike the orokin/derelict arboriforms), to create a hardier plant. Keeping with my theory, this would also explain how someone used transferance to mind-meld with a forest.

I am going to call this my "Everything is Infested" theory. If the orokin were further ahead in their research and use of technocyte, if they could purpose-build strains for specific uses, it wouldnt be surprising if they found ways to incorporate this new 'wonder tech' into everything they could. 

Infestation being utterly unstable, uncontrolled technocyte, and forma being utterly stabilized, inert technocyte, with everything else somewhere in between. It would explain a lot.