Gameplay Feedback And Suggestions From A Game Designer

[obmoc]

The follow are gameplay systems or tweaks to current system that I believe Warframe would benefit from.

 

Marketplace:

 

My only suggestion here is please make sure every Weapon, Warframe, Mod, Gear, etc..are obtainable through in game currency. The only exception to this rule are specially customized versions of this stuff with specific skins or special affects that would attract a purchase. If this isn't the case, when this game releases on the PS4 player's will come and check out the game and then immediately leave. Purchases should always be for convenience. Adding extra inventory slots, buying a special skin for a weapon, purchasing an affinity boost, etc. are all great examples. If player's smell they are getting cheated everyone will leave instantly and this game on the PS4 will be a wasteland. Re-evaluate the tool tips and menus for consoles. Currently, I feel at first glance the store is very confusing which instantly turns me away and doesn't invite me in to browse the goods.

 

Clan Identification:

 

I think the simplest solution to this is to add in a Clan Emblem System. This system could be used to create an emblem and display it on the walls of the dojo. The system should be simple and streamlined with pre determined graphics. The Halo system would be perfect. This would also add more interesting items to the store. Clan emblem packs would be sweet. Let the player's use the emblem builder to create an emblem and display it on their Warframe. They should be able to position it, rotate it, & scale it. It's a decal system for characters. I really do think the artstyle of the Halo emblems and the simplicity of that system would be perfect.

 

Multiplayer PvP:

 

After watching a dojo battle in the live stream I can honestly say it looks fantastic and perfect for clan practice. I still feel something is missing. Imagine two clans of 4 members going at it at one time. Imagine the fast paced buffing, healing, shooting, platforming, and abilities that would occur in a matter of seconds. I think PvP 4vs4 is the future of MP. The team concept and balance of each class helping each other would be fantastic. The levels for this structure would need to be design as competitive arenas that have cover, perfect wall running opportunities, etc.. I think a round arena would be crazy. imagine space ninjas running around the outside wall of the arena and then jumping into the middle to pounce. Game types would be Deathmatch, Capture the Flag, & Last Team Standing. 

 

Level Design Enhancements:

 

The game is in desperate need for a Cover System. The game attempts stealth but without a cover system like Splinter Cell, Mass Effect, Deus Ex it just won't ever feel complete. Strafing in and out of cover works for FPS. It does not work for a Third Person Shooter. It only reminds everyone that is playing that the game world isn't real and brings us out of the narrative. It makes the game feel incomplete like animations are missing. With the similarities to Mass Effect being thrown around I think a cover system similar to that would be perfect. There are already many places in levels behind crates, at a corner intersection, behind a railing, that would be perfect to snap to for cover. The game doesn't have to be cover focused. It's not Gears of War. I get that, but moving quickly from cover to cover with an instant kill sword slash to play stealthily would be amazing.

 

Many players in the forums are complaining about the difficulty and depth of the game. Everyone says "Warframe takes no skill"! That won't fly with the Ninja Gaiden crowd. From what I've played I tend to agree with them. Depth breeds skill. Currently Warframe needs more depth. We need more enemy types with distinct size differences, we need enemies with interesting abilities and gameplay hooks like the enemies from Halo, the multiplayer AI in Mass Effect, or even the zombies from Dead Island. The enemies have to be smart and play to their strengths. Each enemy needs to force the player into adjustments to deal with the threat. Mid level bosses should be considered for all game types, as well as final bosses for every level. I envision a system for boss creation that selects a character model at random on level load, and then choses the boss abilities, gear, and weapons taking into consideration player level but with a little randomness. 

 

Ninja Gaiden mastered the wall run years ago on the original Xbox and with it created some of the most fun platforming puzzles ever created. Warframe needs to recapture that magic and give players the opportunity to locate hidden chests that contain uncommon,  & rare mods if found. I would also like DE to take it a step further and incorporate logic puzzles into the mix. Pressure plates, puzzles that require more than 1 person, using class specific elemental abilities to achieve certain affects to solve puzzles would be amazing and well received by many gamers.

 

A little about me: I graduated from UAT in 2008. I've tested games for THQ and TRION. I currently stay at home with the kids working on some indie game ideas I have. I live and breath anything video games. Let me know what you think?
 

Edited July 12, 2013 by obmoc

[Djula]

NO PVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Necromonger2100]

Pure gold DE's, pure gold...                     

 

people with the no PVP go express that somewhere else please.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Necromonger2100

[Satwo]

i get what youre saying about a cover system, but theres so many nooks and crannies in the current levels that would need a complete overhaul to lean into such a system.

fast slicing from one cover to another cover is good, collar neck-snapping grabs would be cool, sneak noose grabs from catwalks and from above doorways would be classy, and of course multi-sneak kills would be epic (batman arkham city did a great job of this). the true issue is conforming the current maps and any future maps to work with these tasks.

secondly, rewards should reflect ninja actions. scaling exp based on execution of these moves should be considered before implementing such a system.

on another note, they did say they would be working on a clan emblem system eventually.

[obmoc]

NO PVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why not? Once max level is reached what do clans do? This gives them something ongoing that can be expanded and can possibly tie into the dojo in some crazy way. How about an arena ranking area or even a trophy that can be displayed in the dojo if your clan wins a 4 vs 4 PvP event.

[Azraill]

The follow are gameplay systems or tweaks to current system that I believe Warframe would benefit from.

 

Marketplace:

 

My only suggestion here is please make sure every Weapon, Warframe, Mod, Gear, etc..are obtainable through in game currency.  - Already done.

 

Clan Identification - Not bad, but will hold my breath till the clan updates come into place :D They are suppose to do quite a bit with clans in the coming months.

 

PvP - I still vote for a Darksouls invasion PVP mode, but you know, to each their own <.< Either way, PvP is .. entirely unbalanced, and something at least in my opinion for a long time to come - going to remain that way, and the focus should remain on the other aspects, this was advertised and played by many for it's co-op aspects, I'm not saying it shouldn't have PvP, I love the thought after all of incorporating it but on the same token I never see any form of capture the flag, death match ect - ever being balanced, not ever, ever, ever... I could be wrong, but erm.. I just.. highly doubt it and I think that's why I heavily lean more toward a Invasion system of 1 rogue tenno facing off against four during the course of a normal mission, with no real hope of winning save major luck or skilled timing - or more toward a LFD PvP system of the Tenno facing off against 4 unique Player controlled mini-bosses that have to work together to win rather than direct Tenno V Tenno.

 

Level Design Enhancements:

 

The game is in desperate need for a Cover System. - I vomited a little.. but again to each their own. - Edit: Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing some basic and rather fluid (See: Assassins Creed.) Cover system, but one in which I can press Tab, or something, and disable entirely and never feel a need to use if I don't want it happening. Then, awesome. Otherwise.. I return to my first statement.

 

Many players in the forums are complaining about the difficulty and depth of the game. - Can't argue. At all. Hard-mode is only created by diving into Rank 1 items and going to a high level area, and that's not exactly - grand nor does it even remotely begin to create teamwork save from (in my case) my own circle of friends. Upping the difficulty curve on all additional content at least would be well received by me anyway; hitting wave 50 (lvl 155+) was the only moment I've somewhat raised my brow - knowing that at that stage if it wasn't an endless defense but was a raid, the group I was with would have inched through the map carefully and not dared rush ahead of Frost or leave Trinity behind - because at that stage you simply wouldn't survive. Just making levels at that height of level would be entertaining to me for the simple reason people would have to start working together, even Pugs.

 

Ninja Gaiden mastered the wall run years ago on the original Xbox and with it created some of the most fun platforming puzzles ever created.  - Agreed. :P

 

Warframe needs to recapture that magic and give players the opportunity to locate hidden chests that contain uncommon,  & rare mods if found. I would also like DE to take it a step further and incorporate logic puzzles into the mix. Pressure plates, puzzles that require more than 1 person, using class specific elemental abilities to achieve certain affects to solve puzzles would be amazing and well received by many gamers. - - Already have it, but unfortunately it's only in the Void right now, and all of it, the pressure plate puzzles, time trial areas with mod rewards at the end, plenty of them, even secret areas not in the Void with a few decent rewards but it's clear they -want- to do more, they just haven't gotten around to it while it's still in Beta. Still, agreed.

 

 

That's my opinion anyway, though I did like the thought of scaling xp for stealth, even aspects of gadgets to allow you to outright wall climb, drop nooses or other 'Metal Gear' / 'Splinter Cell' type aspects, but in the end the big debate seems to be on PvP and I just hope everyone can be realistic about it - personally at least I don't see any possibility of balancing a PvP system : It could happen, if it did happen I'd have nothing against it, and would use it, but I will always remain on the desire to see a more LFD version wherein you take control of mini-bosses against tenno, or a optional mission Invasion system of 1 rogue tenno facing off against 4 over the course of their mission, forcing the rogue to work with the .. infested, grineer, corpus NPC's to the best of their ability to bring down the group, or - at least - slow them down

Edited July 12, 2013 by Azraill

[obmoc]

i get what youre saying about a cover system, but theres so many nooks and crannies in the current levels that would need a complete overhaul to lean into such a system.

fast slicing from one cover to another cover is good, collar neck-snapping grabs would be cool, sneak noose grabs from catwalks and from above doorways would be classy, and of course multi-sneak kills would be epic (batman arkham city did a great job of this). the true issue is conforming the current maps and any future maps to work with these tasks.

secondly, rewards should reflect ninja actions. scaling exp based on execution of these moves should be considered before implementing such a system.

on another note, they did say they would be working on a clan emblem system eventually.

 

I agree some work would be needed to some extent but I don't think whole levels would need a redesign. I think you might need to change some collision volumes maybe add in a few meshes here and there for specific cover spots etc.. I've already noticed numerous opportunities for cover with the way the levels are design now. It doesn't have to be cover all the time, but if natural cover opportunities pop up why not make it an option to enter cover at that spot? Just because you don't use it doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. I feel like the game is emergent enough with alarms and such that some player's would pass cover opportunities all together and not even know they were there. Others would use them to peak and pop or even avoid being detected.

Edited July 12, 2013 by obmoc

[Satwo]

I agree some work would be needed to some extent but I don't think whole levels would need a redesign. I think you might need to change some collision volumes maybe add in a few meshes here and there for specific cover spots etc.. I've already noticed numerous opportunities for cover with the way the levels are design now. It doesn't have to be cover all the time, but if natural cover opportunities pop up why not make it an option to enter cover at that spot? Just because you don't use it doesn't mean someone else wouldn't

thats the part i ment. some spots like rounded door borders or moa deploy terminals would need to be reworked to smooth it out.

the UI to work with natural landscapes and smoothed models would be tricky. thats where the real work comes in. if the levels were jagged, the transition would be incredibly simple. its the natural covers that crafty players would use that would be tricky to code in.

[Shion963]

Items can already be crafted, althought the Market/Foundry UI doesn't exactly shout that you can buy BPs and make them in the foundry. UI is getting updated in U9, so hope that Market/Foundry will be more intuitive for modern gamers.

 

I can't personally say much about clans and PvP, so I'll leave that bit to someone who does.

 

IMHO cover isn't needed at all once you get the hang of it, the key element in Warframe is to take care of enemies quickly, occasionally popping behind some metal bawkses if you need to regen shields. And that's only a problem when playing with new 'frames or weapons. Judging by the dev's past comments, cover would probably be up there in the list of "Things that won't be in Warframe anytime soon". (But PvP was also there and it got added in, in a way)

 

I got nothing against the game's difficulty, doing level 15-20 missions with unranked gear would undoubtedly be more difficult than running rank-appropriate areas, and obviously running Mercury with maxed gear would be easier than a cat sitting down.

 

Mitch from the tileset team likes to make secret spots, so he's pretty much got that covered. They just need to add chests that gives better chance of good loot to hide. Or make it randomly occurring with a small chance, but drops a relatively hefty amounr of stuff.

[obmoc]

thats the part i ment. some spots like rounded door borders or moa deploy terminals would need to be reworked to smooth it out.

the UI to work with natural landscapes and smoothed models would be tricky. thats where the real work comes in. if the levels were jagged, the transition would be incredibly simple. its the natural covers that crafty players would use that would be tricky to code in.

Some of the things that look complex can be handled with invisible volumes to define the cover area. So even some things that look incredibly detailed and rough can still allow the player to traverse smoothly around or over it. Obviously, if certain doorways are round then that poses a problem for a corner peak. I really don't think this is an issue. If they really want a corner at  specific door location they export the current mesh they have in that spot into Max or Maya and then design another with the same dimensions with a squared off door. They re-export and bring back into the level and the new mesh snaps right into place. Hook up the cover script / nodes add in any volumes you need for the script and bam cover!!!

[Bleghy]

Multiplayer PvP:

 

After watching a dojo battle in the live stream I can honestly say it looks fantastic and perfect for clan practice. I still feel something is missing. Imagine two clans of 4 members going at it at one time. Imagine the fast paced buffing, healing, shooting, platforming, and abilities that would occur in a matter of seconds. I think PvP 4vs4 is the future of MP. The team concept and balance of each class helping each other would be fantastic. The levels for this structure would need to be design as competitive arenas that have cover, perfect wall running opportunities, etc.. I think a round arena would be crazy. imagine space ninjas running around the outside wall of the arena and then jumping into the middle to pounce. Game types would be Deathmatch, Capture the Flag, & Last Team Standing. 

2v2 clan duels, that's as far as it should go.

 

Warframe is a co-op PvE game, not PvP. Instead of adding in stuff that shouldn't be there get the PvE down perfectly, it will just make it a better game.

[obmoc]

Items can already be crafted, althought the Market/Foundry UI doesn't exactly shout that you can buy BPs and make them in the foundry. UI is getting updated in U9, so hope that Market/Foundry will be more intuitive for modern gamers.

 

I can't personally say much about clans and PvP, so I'll leave that bit to someone who does.

 

IMHO cover isn't needed at all once you get the hang of it, the key element in Warframe is to take care of enemies quickly, occasionally popping behind some metal bawkses if you need to regen shields. And that's only a problem when playing with new 'frames or weapons. Judging by the dev's past comments, cover would probably be up there in the list of "Things that won't be in Warframe anytime soon". (But PvP was also there and it got added in, in a way)

 

I got nothing against the game's difficulty, doing level 15-20 missions with unranked gear would undoubtedly be more difficult than running rank-appropriate areas, and obviously running Mercury with maxed gear would be easier than a cat sitting down.

 

Mitch from the tileset team likes to make secret spots, so he's pretty much got that covered. They just need to add chests that gives better chance of good loot to hide. Or make it randomly occurring with a small chance, but drops a relatively hefty amounr of stuff.

Tell me this Shion... Can I buy blue prints for everything in the store? and if so are they all buyable using in game currency? Just from my experience I still have no idea.

Edited July 12, 2013 by obmoc

[obmoc]

2v2 clan duels, that's as far as it should go.

 

Warframe is a co-op PvE game, not PvP. Instead of adding in stuff that shouldn't be there get the PvE down perfectly, it will just make it a better game.

I agree, they need to get the depth, balance & team work down in PvE first then move on to PvP later.

[Bleghy]

Tell me this Shion... Can I buy blue prints for everything in the store? and if so are they all buyable using in game currency? Just from my experience I still have no idea.

What you can't buy with credits, you can find in the broken alert system.

[Azraill]

Just to be a helping hand, yes & no. You can buy 99% of the items in game with - in game currency, the exception to this is Custom Skins / Helmets / the Catalysts and Reactors you put in your warframes and the latest released weapons that can only be found during alert missions, void missions, or Boss loot, but these also occur quite often (just got another reactor a couple days ago.) 

 

The ONLY thing in this game you cannot get your hands on without Platinum that I'm aware of - is Color packs & essentially - decorations for your Sentinel that serve no real in game purpose outside of looking cool.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Azraill

[Tsukinoki]

One big thing:
NO cover system.

That has been said *repeatedly* by DE.

The reason?
Slows down gameplay to a crawl and messes with the fast action and flow of movement.
Good luck wall running, and jumping and climbing when all your tenno wants to do is cuddle the boxes.  That is the biggest reason DE has said NO to cover systems.
Most people prefer the fast paced running, jumping, wall running to running from box to box to cuddle it.

The other reason?
In order to make the game anywhere near challenging for people that prefer to cuddle boxes all day they need to buff enemy damage so that if you get hit you are hurting majorly.  That KILLS any other style of gameplay and would completely destroy the current combat system and make melee nearly worthless.
People already complain that the game is far too easy (and I am one that thinks it could be made more difficult) and if you put in a cover system the difficulty drops like a rock UNLESS you make each trash mob hit like a ton of bricks and anything bigger hit like a freight train.
If you make those changes then you HAVE to play it as a cover shooter, no more options of running and jumping into melee range to take out 4 to 6 enemies with your fragor.  You'll die long before you reach them if you stick your head out of cover.
This game is fairly unique for a TPS in that it lacks cover, and that honestly gives it a lot more options than what a cover system would shoe-horn the game into.

A cover system would just ruin this game.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[Darkenneko]

Why not? Once max level is reached what do clans do? This gives them something ongoing that can be expanded and can possibly tie into the dojo in some crazy way. How about an arena ranking area or even a trophy that can be displayed in the dojo if your clan wins a 4 vs 4 PvP event.

Maybe because you didn't watch any of the live streams or maybe because you didn't pay attention.

 

At some point they want to release level editors to us and let us create our own missions and levels, that will lead to lots of end game content so to speak. This was stated in the last livestream and a couple or so others.

[Zhoyzu]

Why not? Once max level is reached what do clans do? This gives them something ongoing that can be expanded and can possibly tie into the dojo in some crazy way. How about an arena ranking area or even a trophy that can be displayed in the dojo if your clan wins a 4 vs 4 PvP event.

DE specifically said they do not want pvp in the game at all. be grateful that there is a small element of it for clans. it still has no place in warframe.

[Shion963]

Tell me this Shion... Can I buy blue prints for everything in the store? and if so are they all buyable using in game currency? Just from my experience I still have no idea.

Here ya go. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Market_%28Weapons%29

 

Essentially yes, everything not an event Exclusive (Vandals) or 'perk' (Founders) Warframe and weapons can be obtained either by purchasing the Blueprint from the market if available. Most weapons not in the market are available via alerts, but those are considered to be sidegrades rather than 'essential'. Some aesthetics that alters stats (weapon skins, alternate helmets) as of now are included in the Alerts system, but whether the future Series 2 alt-helmets would be included is beyond my knowledge. Some skins aren't currently in Alerts, mainly Scindo's Manticore skin, and Vauban's Esprit helm. It is unknown whether that is by oversight, or design.

 

Pure cosmetics like colour palettes and Sentinel junk aren't included in alerts, but then again they have no effect on stats/gameplay.

 

Recently they added the Frost, Reaper, and Latron Prime to be craftable by obtaining their BP and parts from Void runs, where Prime gear was previously considered to be "Founders Only".

 

And for clarification: I consider "Buyable with ingame credits" to be: "I can get it without spending a single Platinum for the item" (excluding slots, those aren't needed to 'obtain' an equipment, only to store beyond the default 2 'frame 8 weapons, aka 'Convenience')

 

Interesting tidbit:

Warframe Dev Steve mentioned how some japanese developers who talked to him in E3 were asking "are you okay with giving everything for free?" (implying that they're used to some items being locked behind paywalls, and were shocked to see how Warframe goes all commando giving away free shiz and doesn't afraid of anything)

Edited July 12, 2013 by Shion963

[Mythrex]

They say thrr won't be a cover system they already stated it will make the game less fast paced

[Ariarch]

I want the cs to allow you to when you are behind a box, you can look around it and shoot as long as you don't press any arrows or the spacebar.

[Winterbraid]

Long story short: Opinions, opinions, opinions. But I see no arguments that could convince a skeptic that any of your ideas would make Warframe better.

Marketplace: I don't get your point there. You want to have every weapon, warframe, and module be available for credits? This game isn't about buying things, it's about looting and crafting.

Clans: Won't speak on the subject as it doesn't concern me. One thing I don't want though is more clan-locked content, unless they also make content that's 'No Allegiance' locked.

PvP: There are other games that are all about PvP. A game that has started as PvE, is all about PvE. and is balanced around PvE will never be as good at PvP as a game that was made from the ground up for PvP - and it doesn't need PvP in the first place because people play it for PvE.

Unless you have a whole separate team working on the PvP aspect, creating essentially a different game within a game, which only the biggest brands can afford - and eventually you end up with two completely detached components that could and should really be separate games. Either way, pointless for a small developer. When you're small, you don't compete with everyone at once, you find your niche and stick to it. Duels are a toy for bored players and they should stay that way.

Cover system: What is this new rule that a third person shooter has to have a cover system? Just because it worked in your favorite game doesn't mean every remotely similarly themed game has to have it. For me, getting my back magically stuck to a nondescript piece of wall takes me out of the game much more - than the ability to move around the world freely and make use of the available maneuvers on my own terms, while also being able to see my character be awesome at all times.

I don't need the game to educate me that a piece of chest-high wall has strategic value. I can tell by just looking at it.

Ninja Gaiden, Mass Effect, Dead Island, etc.: I love the assumption that everyone who plays Warframe secretly wishes they were actually playing a different game, and that becoming more like that game will automatically make it better, or it will magically steal some of those games' market share. I play Warframe for what it is, and if anything, it's closest to a Diablo-clone made into a third person shooter. And it does a pretty damn good job at that in my personal opinion, and professional reviews tend to agree.

Many players in the forums are complaining...: Just because they're complaining doesn't mean they really know what they want, or that they speak for the majority of the player base. Games are played by more people than one would think and only a specific subset ever visits the forums, and of those a subset complains about the difficulty.

I'm fine with the difficulty, my friends are, and countless other people I meet in the game are, as well. Not every game has to be difficult, complex, deep etc. - we also need simple and shallow time-burners.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Winterbraid

[obmoc]

 

Just to be a helping hand, yes & no. You can buy 99% of the items in game with - in game currency, the exception to this is Custom Skins / Helmets / the Catalysts and Reactors you put in your warframes and the latest released weapons that can only be found during alert missions, void missions, or Boss loot, but these also occur quite often (just got another reactor a couple days ago.) 

 

The ONLY thing in this game you cannot get your hands on without Platinum that I'm aware of - is Color packs & essentially - decorations for your Sentinel that serve no real in game purpose outside of looking cool.

 

So it's not as bad as it seems... I think I could live with this. The menu UI for the store is still somewhat confusing.

[obmoc]

I want the cs to allow you to when you are behind a box, you can look around it and shoot as long as you don't press any arrows or the spacebar.

Maybe that is the answer we need. A lean function like in the GRAW games.

[CloudPies]

Overall, good ideas, but your #1 point just lost you a lot of credibility... If you bothered to look on the WF wiki even, most of the weapons in the game can be made/brought with in-game currency and materials. Only the ones that are exclusive are unobtainable.

 

However, if you can come up with an example of a successful MMO that has every weapon that is easily purchasable with in-game credit, I'm sure you with garner much more support. :)