Enough with the Nitain DE.

[Silvus-Sol]

3 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Prepare to be shouted down by White Knights.

DE abuse their customers. Just stop supporting them. It really is your best bet. The game isnt going to get better. It only exists now to find new ways to milk cash from players. It is a game intentionally designed to frustrate its own player base into spending loads of money. 

What developer deserving of respect and support designs a game deliberately for that purpose?

Somone is bitter. I think the issues your having come from being way, way, waaay too focused on loot and "progression". I put progression in quotes because in Warframe it's more of sidegression and collection than anything. The game should be about the gameplay and fun first and foremost. If you don't enjoy playing the game, playing the missions, and etc; and are only sticking around for the [Mission Complete] screen, then maybe it's time to take a break.

This relates directly to Nitain as well. If having trouble getting a few weapons/warframes/archwing is diminishing your joy this much, then maybe the issue is with more than just Nitain. Because not having Vauban Prime shouldn't be enough to tank your Warframe experience on it's own.

[Flirk2]

27 minutes ago, Silvus-Sol said:

I do understand that there is a problem for a very small percentage of the playerbase

I'm sorry, where do you get the data to make such an assumption?

I mean, the average total play time for Warframe is 70 hours.

Average play time in last 2 weeks is 15.5 hours.

From these numbers I conclude that there are quite a lot of people who will have a problem with nitain.

That's why I ignored your bottom half of the post, because it was based on nothing but speculation, and not even a reasonable one at that. And yes, thinking that stating something like:

16 hours ago, Silvus-Sol said:

Very few, and I mean very few players have a legitimate issue with their schedule that makes Nitain almost impossible.

makes it true by default is unreasonable.

It's very easy to see how someone who can only play Warframe an hour a day can miss every Nitain alert for months. Precisely because there are no long term alerts, like syndicate missions, sorties, Clem or Ayatan sculpture hunts.

 

27 minutes ago, Silvus-Sol said:

It just means that he does them when he sees them, even if he doesn't need the Nitain at that moment.

Let me repeat.

What part of:

On 13.03.2017 at 1:00 AM, Flirk2 said:

he is not seeing enough nitain alerts at the time he usually plays

Is so hard to understand?

Not everyone can spend multiple hours a day logged into the game (or staring at the event tracker ready to log in any moment).

But everyone has a 100+ nitain worth of blueprints available in the game.

You seem to miss the whole point. Doing nitain alerts won't solve nitain hunger if you see only 1 nitain alert a week.

Having no nitain on the market and not having a reliable way to farm it, like argon crystals, does not help matters.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Flirk2

[JalakBali]

11 hours ago, --RV--D4VE- said:

3) He didn't play for long, came back now, new content came all demanding nitain (not just primes, but also archwing, dojo stuff) so now he wants the missing stuff but needs to wait 5 days (assuming you get 1 nitain alert a day) to build one part of Vauban, which takes 19 days (plus 72h of building) to build 1 frame, and where is the rest? 

That's what I said in number 1. He could've work on other stuff to collect and build while grabbing nitain every day. By the time he got to newer stuff, he should have enough content. The whole problem is when these players see newest content and went "I want that and I want it now!".

 

Also, how the hell is a guy who has been away immediately get all the blueprints for a Prime?  Is the problem really "I can't get enough nitain RIGHT NOW" or is it actually "I can't plat my way to victory like how I plat my way to all the primes let me throw plat for some nitain"?

[Silvus-Sol]

4 hours ago, Flirk2 said:

It's very easy to see how someone who can only play Warframe an hour a day can miss every Nitain alert for months. Precisely because there are no long term alerts, like syndicate missions, sorties, Clem or Ayatan sculpture hunts.

I'd be fine with longer Nitain alerts, but I do believe it should be an alert only resource. That's it's thing, it's shtick. Yeah it's a pain in the a** but that is the point.

You aren't supposed to get something like Vauban Prime right away, it's supposed to be a climb. The equivalent would be like wanting easier access to top tier raiding gear in WoW because you are unable to play long enough to beat the raid. That isn't how it is supposed to work. Does that mean that some people will never get that top tier raiding gear? Yeah, probably. But sometimes that happens, suck it up.

I know that sounds elitist and believe me I'm not trying to be one. But sometimes in video games there is shiny s*** that needs to be left to the players who are dedicated enough, in whatever way is needed, to get it. Even if it isn't 110% fair for the casual player.

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Silvus-Sol

[(PSN)Carnatus]

"You have a life? Sucks to be you."

That's the gist of what I've seen so far.

It's not a difference of opinion, it's a difference of who actually cares and can empathize.

Edited March 15, 2017 by (PS4)Carnatus
rewording

[Ditto132]

8 hours ago, Silvus-Sol said:

I do understand that there is a problem for a very small percentage of the playerbase, in fact the whole bottom half of my post is about that. But that doesn't mean we should try to balance around that small group of people. "If 1 out of 1,000 can't get a thing, then let's change the whole system." Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

The real problem is that DE can't make heads or tails of the legitimate Nitain criticism and suggestions, and the people who are just b****ing because they didn't plan ahead and want their thing now. Because the people that are just b****ing use the exact same arguments as those that aren't.

Of course he'd have to be online when the alert is, and no that he does not mean he has to be online every day. It just means that he does them when he sees them, even if he doesn't need the Nitain at that moment. If it is completely impossible for him to see them due to RL restrictions, then that sucks, but he is an exception and not the rule.

"very small percentage of the playerbase"?
1 out of 1,000 or 0.1% have real life commitment?
999 out of 1,000 or 99.9% don't have real life commitment?

8hrs work
2-3hrs trips to work (back and forth)
7-8hrs sleep
1-2hrs of meals, bathing, some household chores
Added up to 18-21hrs, leaving only 3-6hrs of free time.

Not to mention working Over-Time(OT) during peak period, meeting clients after work hours.
So during weekdays, I could have some time just for Sortie(30-45minutes), rarely Nitain alerts, potato alerts or invasions. Or do some relaxing stuff or read forum if too exhausted from work.
During weekends, I might be spending time with family members, catch-up with old friends, some grocery shopping, watch 1hr of devStream, reading and trying different builds and playing farming some Relics for prime items and Ducats.

Most of the veterans that doesn't have such issues are usually people who don't have much real life commitment.
Some friends who are on holiday breaks, jobless and looking for job and working from home or freelancing. They usually played for 6-12hrs per day.

I have been active and able to obtain ~100 Nitains because I taking a long break from work(burning out from too much OT) and most likely won't be able to be as active when I start working again soon. During my active time, the most Nitains I got per day was 3, but usually 1 per day.
By the way, I missed a Nitain alert yesterday even though I saw the alert. I was running late and had to rush out the house, no time for even a mobile defense alert.

As for your "they didn't plan ahead and want their thing now" and similar arguments, refer to this:

Hopefully from this, people can see from the perspective of people who have real life commitment.

[Silvus-Sol]

2 minutes ago, Ditto132 said:

-snip-

Admittedly I pulled the numbers out of my backside. It was more to illustrate my point than to be taken as a full on fact. Looking back I should have found a better device, my bad.

Look I get it. I fully understand that not everyone can do the alerts as they are right now. I don't object to DE tweaking the length of time they are around, IMO there should always be one up and they should last for 6 hours; When one would end another begins. Especially if they plan on continuing to add stuff that needs Nitain.

What I'm saying is that it should remain an Alert based item. I'm also saying that sometimes certain pieces of gear are only available to certain kinds of players, and that is not always a bad thing. Every item does not have to be obtained by everyone. Especially not if they are unwilling or unable to put forth the effort that others are in order to obtain it. Is it fair, not completely, but Warframe isn't a game that is 100% designed around the 2 hour casual gamer nor should it be.

Oh and the Hema thing is just ridiculous. DE fudged up and added an extra 0 onto that mutagen sample requirement and are being silly. They need to fix it already and just refund the clans/players that got it already with some boosters or something.

[(PSN)Carnatus]

18 minutes ago, Silvus-Sol said:

Admittedly I pulled the numbers out of my backside. It was more to illustrate my point than to be taken as a full on fact. Looking back I should have found a better device, my bad.

Look I get it. I fully understand that not everyone can do the alerts as they are right now. I don't object to DE tweaking the length of time they are around, IMO there should always be one up and they should last for 6 hours; When one would end another begins. Especially if they plan on continuing to add stuff that needs Nitain.

What I'm saying is that it should remain an Alert based item. I'm also saying that sometimes certain pieces of gear are only available to certain kinds of players, and that is not always a bad thing. Every item does not have to be obtained by everyone. Especially not if they are unwilling or unable to put forth the effort that others are in order to obtain it. Is it fair, not completely, but Warframe isn't a game that is 100% designed around the 2 hour casual gamer nor should it be.

Oh and the Hema thing is just ridiculous. DE fudged up and added an extra 0 onto that mutagen sample requirement and are being silly. They need to fix it already and just refund the clans/players that got it already with some boosters or something.

"Getting all the stuff" is pretty much Warframe's entire thing.

They certainly aren't a story driven game, as much as I'd like them to be. There's just not enough quests or dialog for that to be it's selling point.

Not being able to get the stuff is just not an option. Everyone should be able to get the stuff. Otherwise, what are you even doing? Running through the same old tilesets over and over, killing the same old enemies with a new coat of paint and some stat tweaks?

I guess "customizing" is a big part, mixing and matching mods and such to find out what's more effective or fun. But you need stuff to customize. You need all the bits and bobbles.

So saying that "certain types of players can't get certain stuff" is about as constructive and helpful as "people with lives are in the minority and aren't worth the consideration of the game developers" was.

I'm a talkative fellow too, and I ain't opposed to small talk, but sometimes if you don't have anything worthwhile to add to a conversation, your best bet is to just not.

[Silvus-Sol]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

"Getting all the stuff" is pretty much Warframe's entire thing.

They certainly aren't a story driven game, as much as I'd like them to be. There's just not enough quests or dialog for that to be it's selling point.

Not being able to get the stuff is just not an option. Everyone should be able to get the stuff. Otherwise, what are you even doing? Running through the same old tilesets over and over, killing the same old enemies with a new coat of paint and some stat tweaks?

I guess "customizing" is a big part, mixing and matching mods and such to find out what's more effective or fun. But you need stuff to customize. You need all the bits and bobbles.

So saying that "certain types of players can't get certain stuff" is about as constructive and helpful as "people with lives are in the minority and aren't worth the consideration of the game developers" was.

I'm a talkative fellow too, and I ain't opposed to small talk, but sometimes if you don't have anything worthwhile to add to a conversation, your best bet is to just not.

It's a developing story and the lore is pretty interesting. It's a work in progress. But yeah it is more of a collection game than anything.

I'm playing the game because I genuinely enjoy playing the game. Collecting the bits and bobbles is extra incentive that give you more to do than just shoot/slash stuff. But collecting isn't the only reason I play, I play Warframe because I like playing Warframe.

Fashionframe is the best frame. Tis true.

You may not like it but it's true. Not everyone is going to get everything. Would Tempo Royal or Crimson Dervish hold the same value if they were quick and easy to get? Some things are a real b**** to get, but that's what gives them their value. And there are some players that will never have either of those stances. Does that mean we should change the droprates until it's common enough that everybody will own one with relatively low effort? Anyways...

At this point I've said all I needed to say and made my points. Now it's up to the little green hearts and DE. Good lil debate though.

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Silvus-Sol

[Luzzu]

13 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Prepare to be shouted down by White Knights.

DE abuse their customers. Just stop supporting them. It really is your best bet. The game isnt going to get better. It only exists now to find new ways to milk cash from players. It is a game intentionally designed to frustrate its own player base into spending loads of money. 

What developer deserving of respect and support designs a game deliberately for that purpose?

If anything you just said was even remotely true, wouldn't you be able to buy Nitain from the market instead of waiting for alerts each day? Clearly the point of Nitain being added went completely over your head.

 

In my first two years of playing Warframe when it was much harder than it is now, not a day went by that I felt bad for being a free player. Nothing prompted me to feel like I had to spend money; I wasn't frustrated at anything and everything was worth working towards. Now, things are a bit different, but Warframe being a pay-to-win cash grab as I've seen expressed a lot lately couldn't be further from the truth and it's my personal opinion that anyone who maintains this belief is just an entitled baby.

 

People spend money on Warframe because they want to. You can get everything you need to play the game successfully without spending a cent, as many players on the game have and still do. Want cosmetics? Get some platinum. Need platinum? Sure, spend money, or continue grinding for drops that others will spend for. You could accrue a massive amount of platinum without you ever giving up so much as your last 4 digits on your credit card to DE. So, remind me, when Nitain is added as a time gate to slow progression down and it's needed in all these blueprints that DE is supposedly milking cash for, but you can't pay for the damn things in the market, how is a free player or even a customer being abused? 

 

As for the actual complaint listed by OP, Nitain alerts should be available for longer. I think that would be a good starting point. Adding more alerts throughout the day would change progression and time scale and maybe DE doesn't want that, but at least expanding the window in which the alerts can be done would provide some breathing room for people who can't play as often as others and allow some to catch some alerts throughout the day they otherwise might not be able to do.

[Ditto132]

7 minutes ago, Silvus-Sol said:

Admittedly I pulled the numbers out of my backside. It was more to illustrate my point than to be taken as a full on fact. Looking back I should have found a better device, my bad.

Look I get it. I fully understand that not everyone can do the alerts as they are right now. I don't object to DE tweaking the length of time they are around, IMO there should always be one up and they should last for 6 hours; When one would end another begins. Especially if they plan on continuing to add stuff that needs Nitain.

What I'm saying is that it should remain an Alert based item. I'm also saying that sometimes certain pieces of gear are only available to certain kinds of players, and that is not always a bad thing. Every item does not have to be obtained by everyone. Especially not if they are unwilling or unable to put forth the effort that others are in order to obtain it. Is it fair, not completely, but Warframe isn't a game that is 100% designed around the 2 hour casual gamer nor should it be.

Oh and the Hema thing is just ridiculous. DE fudged up and added an extra 0 onto that mutagen sample requirement and are being silly. They need to fix it already and just refund the clans/players that got it already with some boosters or something.

Agree that some stuffs should be limited to certain kinds of players.
For example, I personally don't play Conclave and Raids at all. But I don't complain that I don't have any Conclave mods and Arcanes.
Those are not necessary for my usual PvE game mode.
I also joined Waframe late, I don't complain that I don't have founder items.
I will accept it, if it was reasonable.

Nitain probably should remain as an alert based resource, but this got to be balanced with the amount required for crafting/researching, frequency of newly released contents that requires it and the duration of the said alert. It is not easy to balance this type of resources due to the large gap of playtime between players with different commitment, schedules, hardcore and casual. DE might also have to factor in those new players who joined late in the future.

Imagine, a new friend that joined late in the future and there are existing contents that require ~100 Nitains. He/she might not be able to catch up with you or the community especially if he/she also couldn't play as much, yet new Nitain-related contents are being released.
As a veteran who had plenty of time to farm/grind, it feel like DE is releasing contents too slowly.
As a players who got other commitments, it feel like DE is releasing contents faster than you can consume.
Personally, I feel that DE is releasing contents faster compared to other games like Overwatch, Team Fortress 2 and MMO like WoW. In fact, I believe that players are consuming contents way too fast with all those power leveling, meta squad and super optimal farming. Maxing and forma-ing weapons and frames multiple times in an hour, really? Maybe DE should introduced more fixed time-gate to try to slow down consumption rate like Maroo weekly mission.
This would prevent players from playing too much and getting burn out, and don't have to worry too much about player having too much stockpiled.

Personally, I find that "when one alert end another begins" would loses the purpose of it being an alert, since it would be technically available throughout the whole day. Losing the "alert pop up and you do it" factor. I believe that tweaking it to be like invasion or Gift from the Lotus would be much better. Balancing the frequency/scarcity and the duration.

As for resource cost, it should not be balanced around player stockpile, especially from veterans.
All of the resource cost would probably need to be re-balanced and increased slightly, since they added the new breakable resource cache.
Hema cost is too ridiculous unbalanced.

Not sure if you read this article, i think you might be interested:
http://www.tennoclocknews.com/analysis-of-resource-costs/

[(PSN)Carnatus]

29 minutes ago, Silvus-Sol said:

It's a developing story and the lore is pretty interesting. It's a work in progress. But yeah it is more of a collection game than anything.

I'm playing the game because I genuinely enjoy playing the game. Collecting the bits and bobbles is extra incentive that give you more to do than just shoot/slash stuff. But collecting isn't the only reason I play, I play Warframe because I like playing Warframe.

Fashionframe is the best frame. Tis true.

You may not like it but it's true. Not everyone is going to get everything. Would Tempo Royal or Crimson Dervish hold the same value if they were quick and easy to get? Some things are a real b**** to get, but that's what gives them their value. And there are some players that will never have either of those stances. Does that mean we should change the droprates until it's common enough that everybody will own one with relatively low effort? Anyways...

At this point I've said all I needed to say and made my points. Now it's up to the little green thumbs and DE. Good lil debate though.

When I think about the rate at which story and lore is added to the game, an image of an IV drip comes to mind. Drip, drip, drip.

Granted, what's there now is pretty neat. It's just not enough to be it's selling point. If they regularly added more story to the game then maybe. But they don't. So it's the new stuff that keeps us coming back instead.

Everything about Warframe requires collecting. Fashion frame included. It's a core part of the game.

Rare mods and Nitain Extract are two very different matters entirely, since Mods drop randomly, are earned from challenges, and purchased. Saying that some people will never have a certain mod is ridiculous. So long as they keep playing, they'll get it one way or another.

Nobody here is asking to get everything with little effort. People who can't spend countless hours everyday playing actually have to work harder and smarter than anyone else to succeed, because they have a limited timeframe to accomplish their goals.

While everyone else is flying through the progression system, they're left trudging along behind. Saying that they want something for nothing is just being nasty and self centered.

[Volinus7]

Off topic but since someone mentioned....

It really interests me whenever someone says "I like playing Warframe".

"Isn't this game all about zero morality genocide?" pops up every time.

Same as above, the rate of lore is like one pico gram per year so tenno are still remain as psychopath space douchebags.

 

"Fashion Frame is the best or endgame" has meaning and reference, it's because gameplay is unbalanced and grinding is obviously boring so the last thing left is to dress up your murderous dolls and the remote kid at the bottom of uncanny valley.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Volinus7

[Danjal777]

13 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Off topic but since someone mentioned....

It really interests me whenever someone says "I like playing Warframe".

"Isn't this game all about zero morality genocide?" pops up every time.

Same as above, the rate of lore is like one pico gram per year so tenno are still remain as psychopath space douchebags.

 

"Fashion Frame is the best or endgame" has meaning and reference, it's because gameplay is unbalanced and grinding is obviously boring so the last thing left is to dress up your murderous dolls and the remote kid at the bottom of uncanny valley.

Yes.

Fashion Frame is considered endgame because no one expected to be able to customize to the degree that you always see something new out there that just looks great.

Good thing our murderdolls are getting an actual storyline to dilute the genocide!

[blackheartstar_pc]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

"Getting all the stuff" is pretty much Warframe's entire thing.

Not being able to get the stuff is just not an option. Everyone should be able to get the stuff. Otherwise, what are you even doing? Running through the same old tilesets over and over, killing the same old enemies with a new coat of paint and some stat tweaks?

I'm going to disagree with you here. Almost comes across as a participation trophy styled argument. There are plenty of things in this game you will not be able to get unless you are a Founder, buy every Prime Access, or have traveled to the first Tennocon. Some things should only go to those who put in more time and or effort above what most others can or will.

[row49382]

On 3/13/2017 at 9:18 AM, Eminem2420 said:

Ok. You can continue to ignore problems with the game. I'm not going to waste my time.

You should realize that he is only responding to your original post. You claimed that there are a large percentage of players that don't play anymore. He presented an argument with data to disprove you. It had nothing to do with ignoring problems.

[(PSN)Carnatus]

12 hours ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

I'm going to disagree with you here. Almost comes across as a participation trophy styled argument. There are plenty of things in this game you will not be able to get unless you are a Founder, buy every Prime Access, or have traveled to the first Tennocon. Some things should only go to those who put in more time and or effort above what most others can or will.

I'm sorry. Explain to me where in the post you quoted I said people shouldn't have to make an effort?

I swear, if I had a nickel for everytime this kind of nonsense was posted...it gets annoying. No- for the 8 billionth time, nobody is asking to get anything without putting in a fair amount of work.

And how is effort involved in Prime Access packs or the Founders packs or even Tennocon? Are you saying that those who struggle financially are lazy? I'd have totally gone to the first Tennocon and bought a Founders pack, if I hadn't been living on white rice and ramen during that time.

Excuse us for being peasants I guess.

[Yaerion]

Do not rage-post, and use the relevant subforum (Feedback, if you want the attention from DE).

Stomped.