Can someone explain the base damage vs. crit damage debate?

[MooseCadets]

Hello, I've been using a lot of crit weapons lately and a lot of builds/people say to not use extra base damage mods like adding extra impact damage. They say something like it doesn't scale(?) and it's better to put more crit damage mods on it. Although my friends and other people say the crit damage is based off of base damage so it's better to put some in those mods instead of all crit damage. Can someone explain?

[(PSN)jFresh215]

The difference as an equation: 

Crit mod= +120% damage every time you get a crit. Damage spread on weapon is 100 slash 100 impact 100 puncture= 300 damage total. 300+120%=660 total damage on a crit

IPS mod= +120% damage to slash damage. (100+120%)+100+100=420 total damage. And this is without any other damage increasing mods. The difference is greater and greater the more damage you put on.

[(PSN)jFresh215]

With crit damage you are multiplying all damage every time you get a crit. With added IPS damage mods, you are only adding to that damage type. 

 

[MooseCadets]

Just now, (PS4)jFresh215 said:

With crit damage you are multiplying all damage every time you get a crit. With added IPS damage mods, you are only adding to that damage type. 

 

Oh so with crit damage you multiply all of the puncture/impact/slash/corrosive (lets say) rather than just adding to the impact base damage for cits?

[(PSN)joshw1400]

Of course you want based damage. It'll for sure increase the crit damage output. You'll also want elements which are better than the IPS mods for crits.

[Sintag]

The major issue with raising base damage is that while it does positively affect critical hits, it also takes more slots and mod points to make it worthwhile (IPS) and isn't as effective overall as raising crit damage.  Additionally, the good mods that bump up IPS are either sold by Baro or Rares.  The rest just aren't worth touching unless you have literally nothing else.

 

This being said, for some guns that don't spec towards Crits well, feel free to raise elements and Slash damage to make killing a tad easier, and a base damage build for those guns (Braton Prime, Karak Wraith, etc) can work far better than raising up Crit damage.

[(PSN)jFresh215]

2 minutes ago, MooseCadets said:

Oh so with crit damage you multiply all of the puncture/impact/slash/corrosive (lets say) rather than just adding to the impact base damage for cits?

Basicall,  yes.

[MooseCadets]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)jFresh215 said:

The difference as an equation: 

Crit mod= +120% damage every time you get a crit. Damage spread on weapon is 100 slash 100 impact 100 puncture= 300 damage total. 300+120%=660 total damage on a crit

IPS mod= +120% damage to slash damage. (100+120%)+100+100=420 total damage. And this is without any other damage increasing mods. The difference is greater and greater the more damage you put on.

Thanks guys, I see what you are saying. I'll pay more attention to see if the percentage added to IPS is worth not putting in more crit, but I can see now the difference. Thanks.

[NeoSmile]

1 minute ago, (PS4)jFresh215 said:

The difference as an equation: 

Crit mod= +120% damage every time you get a crit. Damage spread on weapon is 100 slash 100 impact 100 puncture= 300 damage total. 300+120%=660 total damage on a crit

IPS mod= +120% damage to slash damage. (100+120%)+100+100=420 total damage. And this is without any other damage increasing mods. The difference is greater and greater the more damage you put on.

ips + crit ((100+120%)+100+100)+120% = 924

i guess this was what he was asking for
althoug on a weapon like that i would have used elements instead of slash/impact/puncture unless building for that specific status

great equation though

[(PSN)jFresh215]

Just now, NeoSmile said:

ips + crit ((100+120%)+100+100)+120% = 924

i guess this was what he was asking for
althoug on a weapon like that i would have used elements instead of slash/impact/puncture unless building for that specific status

great equation though

The way I understood it was using crit damage instead of extra IPS damage. Like slotting in bladed rounds over the IPS mods. 

[NeoSmile]

Just now, (PS4)jFresh215 said:

The way I understood it was using crit damage instead of extra IPS damage. Like slotting in bladed rounds over the IPS mods. 

i read it as him asking if they worked together so we both looked at it differently

no harm done, and also still, great trying to help people

[(PSN)jFresh215]

Couldn't agree more. At least both questions are answered. 

[AerinSol]

The "debate" boils down to the mods in the modding system. There are fewer crit mods you can put on than damage mods and like jFresh showed, they deliver more damage while having more space to add mods.

Take the single Vital Sense mod. To an average weapon it jumps the crit damage to 4.4x in a single slot covering 9 points. Any other damage mod, including elemental, take the same 9 while only giving a 90% damage boost.

[apo86]

6 minutes ago, MooseCadets said:

Thanks guys, I see what you are saying. I'll pay more attention to see if the percentage added to IPS is worth not putting in more crit, but I can see now the difference. Thanks.

It all comes down to math and I'd suggest you play around with a DPS calculator for a bit. Generally you do want a healthy balance between crit and base damage. Obviously building for crit on a crit-viable weapon is good, but you do not want to have Serration, Split Chamber, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Hammer Shot, Critical Delay, Argon Scope and Bladed Rounds. You need base damage to make all that crit work, because 800% of garbage DPS is probably still not that great.

The thing is just that IPS mods are usually not the best way to get more base damage because elemental mods in most cases simply add more damage and on top of that give you fancy procs and flexibility in building for the enemy weaknesses.

So the argument is not crit>base, it's elemental>IPS - in most cases.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

The fact that only "basedamage" and crit participate in most status calculations may play a big part in this as well.

Just on a sidenote: Status beats crit by far imo, at least on melee. Condition overload is a hell of a mod.