Not a rant, but I miss the old void. Do you?

[xxdarrenxx]

On 3/29/2017 at 5:12 PM, Airwolfen said:

Do you want a tinfoil hat with that statement?

While I couldn't verify it for DE, you can leave the tinfoilhat. Computers don't simply RNG, they can only execute logic. This is their advantage, as no calculator will give 1 + 1 = 3, but it means everything can (Theoretically) be "predicted". To get as close as "real" RNG as you can with a machine, u need something from "nature" like for example voltage fluctuations as the initial input, or use things like PI to guarantee a non-recurring pattern.

Now this is not even really relevant here. It's not that much off a secret that programmers will manipulate the RNG to keep people in the game. This can be done by upping drop % silently when you haven't got valuable stuff in a while.  Sometimes with games for the economy, they even drops  also when too much off a single item comes in the game to keep the economy in check.

With true RNG you'd see from time to time (albeit rare) an item that's extremely rare, be very common, because RNG chooses no sides, and there would be certain moments, where "the stars allign" and it's everywhere. Anecdotally, there was a guy who got struck by lightning 3 times in his life, and another person who won the no1 prize in a lottery several times.

A different example is casinos. Slot machines regulate, that when such a spike of a lot off winnings in a short time does occur, it will manipulate to not give out money for a while or until a certain threshold of money is back in the bank.

Never forget, that to us it's a game, but for them it's a business. It's not black and white and I believe they will do stuff for our entertainment solely, but no business let's their game depend on randomness when they can program for full control. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by xxdarrenxx

[Airwolfen]

2 hours ago, xxdarrenxx said:

While I couldn't verify it for DE, you can leave the tinfoilhat. Computers don't simply RNG, they can only execute logic. This is their advantage, as no calculator will give 1 + 1 = 3, but it means everything can (Theoretically) be "predicted". To get as close as "real" RNG as you can with a machine, u need something from "nature" like for example voltage fluctuations as the initial input, or use things like PI to guarantee a non-recurring pattern.

Now this is not even really relevant here. It's not that much off a secret that programmers will manipulate the RNG to keep people in the game. This can be done by upping drop % silently when you haven't got valuable stuff in a while.  Sometimes with games for the economy, they even drops  also when too much off a single item comes in the game to keep the economy in check.

With true RNG you'd see from time to time (albeit rare) an item that's extremely rare, be very common, because RNG chooses no sides, and there would be certain moments, where "the stars allign" and it's everywhere. Anecdotally, there was a guy who got struck by lightning 3 times in his life, and another person who won the no1 prize in a lottery several times.

A different example is casinos. Slot machines regulate, that when such a spike of a lot off winnings in a short time does occur, it will manipulate to not give out money for a while or until a certain threshold of money is back in the bank.

Never forget, that to us it's a game, but for them it's a business. It's not black and white and I believe they will do stuff for our entertainment solely, but no business let's their game depend on randomness when they can program for full control. 

Yes, however. unlike those slotmachines the values of the relic system were... extracted... on day 1. And they are static values (confirmed multiple times). Static values can also be changed of course But I can tell you that Reddit will be talking about it when that happens.

_{With extracted I mean datamining and most developers do not really like datamining.}

[Hayabusa97]

Yeah, I wasn't too big a fan of the old void system. Felt like a chore.

[Comrade]

The old void system is what lead to me burning out, every single time. Throwing more than one of the parts into an endless t4 mission killed it for me as I couldn't just run it in a pub and I didn't feel like sifting through recruiting chat or waiting for clanmates to get on, so I'd run non-endless keys for hours and get precisely squat. The new system is pub-friendly which caters to a massive portion of the userbase and provides users with a specific set of rewards that they can work towards. I'm not a super solid believer in the "smoke and mirrors" as while farming a certain relic can sometimes be difficult, I've found that running radiant relics is still more reliable at dishing out higher rarity items than anything else. Granted, I agree that the void should have a special, grand feeling to it as right now it's a tileset stuck on the map with very little introduction. Perhaps a quest that grants travel to the void (a la The Second Dream and Lua) would serve as a useful function to newer players and give the missions more purpose than farming argon crystals.

[SeaUrchins]

I enjoyed the old void because I could milk its rewards almost infinitely, getting dozens of rewards from a single key.

Now with current throw 1 relic to get 1 reward it's just meh.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

On 29/03/2017 at 0:02 PM, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

Yes and no.

Yes because, personally, I think the trace and radiant system is nothing but smoke and mirrors.  DE controls the actual drop % percentages behind the scenes, there's no actual difference between using an intact relic and a radiant.  Same drop chance.  I also despise the need to grind traces to level relics.  Being the redundant, double-grind that it is

No because I loathed key leeching.  The relic system did away with that.

Exactly what I was thinking. I sometimes have the feeling that when something gets released, the drop rate percentages are kind of strange. Of course that the data sample I have is not enough to draw concluions but its that feeling you know.

Something between the two systems would be better. Make endless more relevant while avoiding key leech. 

[Ryme]

8 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

You still had to farm keys for the void unless you were one of the Many leeching off others.

As for void traces... Pft you don't Need them you Want them. They only give a minor boost to potentially getting a better item and unless you are running a dedicated group on a certain key it is actually a waste. I rarely use the traces I have and half the time I get the best outcome without a modified relic and I'll get the worst while running a modified one (RNGesus just loves to mess with us)

You call it leeching, I call it being able to take turns with a friend on who has to farm for keys. And unless you're just running missions solo, you do "need" traces to refine your relic to the proper quality to get into or recruit groups of other people farming for the same item.

 

[(PSN)mr_chainsaw555]

On 3/29/2017 at 10:41 AM, (PS4)strasserhouse said:

I still remember looking at the void keys when you got them as a low level. Wondering what amazing loot you could get from them. Finally grabbing your gear, and experiencing the void for the first time. The Beautiful golden tint, ambient music flooding your ears, and a brand new foe waiting for your arrival. Having Four whole teirs of missions at your disposal Tier One though Tier Four. Picking different missions would give you different mysterious loot. The mystery, and the challenge to farm in old void missions is something like veteran players such as myself are looking for again in warframe. The old void was of the best reasons for me to come home from my classes and think to myself "I cant wait to go play warframe for hours."  Those were the days of when old void missions used to be preeminent. And a vast majority of people who miss the old void but the new system is not the same. 

 

The old void needs to see some sort of resurrection. The new players would sadly not understand why the old void was just so much fun. It provided challenges, and loot for us trying, a way to level up, and help new players at the time, giving them loot they would of never imagined that could be in their own possession. It honestly fit the lore quite well, you find prime parts, in a Primed Utopia. Now what, you find a prime parts in a piece of scrap metal that looks no bigger than an apple. And those do not fit the missing feeling players have with the new void system.

 

 

And so i leave this post to anybody who would like to give me their input on such a big topic that players are still wanting to talk about and does not know where to start.  

 

 

Do you want the old void back?

me, going back to the old void? after me trying to get the boar prime stock before it got re-vaulted? not on your life

[Andaius]

When they introduced the new relic system I got parts for weapons I was grinding for the past year in a few weeks, and with only casual work have almost gotten caught up to date with the current prime weapons and frames. People who cry about only using one key, seem to forget you have to play 20 minutes for a chance you could in 5 minutes in the relic system to get what you needed. With a better chance too if you put in traces. You also build up traces naturally the same way you get ducats with low level gear you get pretty much all the time on relic runs. You also can get tons and tons of relics doing just about anything.