Can Seer get chance to 1.5m AoE knockdown ?

[taiiat]

5 hours ago, Djego27 said:

I did not state that you did and also did not think you would have the intention of doing so. However it would be much easier for DE to just use existent damage types instead of putting a new one in the game

This is not because I am a just super good at the game, but because specific weapons, even if they considered as bad by the first look at them or the majority of the player base are actually fairly strong in proper application, even if base damage values might suggest otherwise.

Void Damage isn't a new Damage Type, it already exists.... your Operator uses it.

eeeh, any Weapon with a big Damage Multiplier added onto it is good. a Lato is pretty good if you apply a big Damage Multiplier to it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Djego27]

Well void damage is not on any weapon. Given that damage types normally come with unique death animation(like the slash proc, fire proc, corrosive proc), it is not on the wiki with strengths and weaknesses and it would probably have a lot of issues to fix(like not for example that the damage buff of accelerant does not work on bosses since the rework with the stun resistance) if we actually would use it a lot.

In my example both frames had access to the same damage multiplication(since accelant is AOE and even if it would have been weaker or stronger on the other frame, as long as both use the same scaling multiplier at the same time, what is given since they overwrite each other, it is comparable for ability and weapon damage), so the difference is just how you mod it, how good the player is with it(what is fairly hard to judge) and base stats on the weapon. While WOF is a factor kt is certainly not something you make 600+ or 400+ kills in a like 8 minute sorti interception with, at what point it did look literally just farming focus on the old drako.

The mara detron got 105 base damage what is worse then the aklex prime, it got 2.5% crit what is worse then the aklex prime, it got 10% status what is worse then the aklex prime, it got 8 rounds instead of 16 what is again worse then the aklex prime, it got a lot of spread while the aklex is incredible accurate at any range.

So how can a weapon like this beat the aklex prime even remotely in damage? The answer to this is mostly because the aklex is played like a one shot gun, utilizing the full fire rate would create a lot of missed shots, while the mara detron does not miss(because it hits the hole screen at range), however if you want to hit with full damage you need to be within 5m of a target at a point where you can actually utilize the full fire rate and the quick relaods(since you just mag dump even with 11 rounds after modding non stop) what also triggers viral on targets that can take more hits at what point you do bigger damage that the aklex prime at base and the high power from the weapon only comes from careful aiming and crits what takes time and rng, while the mara detron is much more straight forward, get close, utilize nearly assault rifle rof on a 12k(24k with the viral proc) on Ember with a single shot weapon while pulling the mouse downwards to compensate for the incredible kick in a controlled manner to hit targets for maximum damage.

Every weapon can be incredible with a high damage buff, while this is true it is a different story for elemental and or status weapons. You can not mod a brakk viral, radiation, fire, similar as you can not get that much punch out of a mara detron against a faction like infested with a universal damage buff, because this would make it highly reliant on radiation and viral for damage, while on Ember it is just optimal to disable 90% damage reduction and double both weapon as well as ability damage output while 80% of the damage comes from another element on the weapon. Same as you can not make a boar prime competitive with a vaykor hek for raw damage output(even with sonar you will still miss the weak spots with 80%+ of your pellets), while it at least on Ember can be fairly competitive in kill speed at L100+ against armor, because damage against armor(what all normal scaling abilities would raise) is not important if the gun disables armor anyway and the fire scaling that is stronger then pure all damage buffs to deal with what is left of the EHP after disabling the armor.

In the end, a gun that does come with incredible CC and utility what allows you to kill much higher levels does simply scale different then a gun that does just does damage and with damage buffs you just push the point where it falls off later down the road.

Edit: The mara detron is one of the strongest scaling secondary weapons on Ember because it got radiation base damage(if you consider the staticor as just plain stupid overpowered with it's double status mechanic on hit and AOE) and even outside of Ember it is very effective because it provides the utility of what is normally only present on a low damage status weapon on a weapon that can challenge most of the weapons in the game for effective dps on targets at higher levels. It is also the only shotgun in the hole game that can make status modding without hitting 100% status before multi shot look good, what is mostly the case because it comes with a very useful elemental proc(and dose CC and de buff targets), different to the IPS of the brakk.

Edit2: Same is true for the prisma grakata what is considered as bad gun, even if it will outperform a soma prime at higher levels by the proc rate  of corrosive vs armor and because it provides 100% CC uptime against anything that is remotely close to what you shoot at.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Djego27

[Djego27]

After thinking about it again, lets do some math and use the example from the wiki for a L108 heavy gunner:

8405 armor what equals a 96.35% damage reduction with 48040,5 HP what would be around 1.4M effective HP.

With Hornet Strike, Barrel Diffusion and Lethal torrent you end up with 760 base damage(assuming we do not add void extra damage mods or you have a riven that affects multi shot or base damage, assuming you consider magnum force like me as a damage loss on head shot orientated weapons). This would mean 63 hits. If we head shot 32 hits, if we mod it with viral(what probably everybody would) it means 16 shots. Since we do not have viral up from the first shot and we will not land a head shot with any single shot, lets say it takes 20 rounds, that is on a current seer with ice storm(11 rounds) and quick draw and stunning speed(1.5s reload) around 10s with void damage.

It does however nothing against Infested and only would be useful against armored corpus units.

A corrosive or radiation base damage seer with 50% status in return could be modded with 100% status and corrosive in any single build, what means you get a corrosive proc out of nearly every shot. After 8 corrosive procs(lets say 10 shots fired) you already got less then 500 armor on the target. Where you still have 10 rounds left compared to the example above that will do round about 30k damage(if you add into consideration that armor will be next to non existent after the next 5 shots and corrosive got bonus damage most likely more). This is even before we consider adding viral for even quicker kills or cold/fire/electric for very desirable CC that might not affect kill speed that much but is useful in it's own rights.

So I am actually suggesting the stronger gun then you do, with things that are already in the game and it would be more flexible against other factions as well, given radiation is good vs robotics(this includes oxium ospreys and brusas both the highest EHP targets of the hole faction), can disable shield osprey proto shields in sortis(what are just as annoying as healers, given that they block all slash, gas and toxin damage from penetrating the shield) and can disable eximus or healer auras what is incredible good at high levels. If it would be corrosive at base(what I think is a bit less flexible then radiation) you can add the radiation effects with mods as well and corrosive is again fairly useful against heavy infested units and is the highest scaling anti armor solution as status effect before completely ignoring armor with finisher damage(slash procs, finishers etc.) or in your example void damage, while still offering other options like viral, gas, toxin or additional CC effects.

Given that 50% status chance makes it usable without all the dual status mods it would be a fairly good entry level status weapon for a newer player, completely different to the grakata, that might be MR2 but has it's power completely locked behind a grind wall for specific mods at what point the new player will already run around with a soma or better weapon and will most likely not look back.

I for myself still work on a akbronko riven(got 50% reload speed and mag size so far with status duration, would it be status chance it would be perfect). If I get my god roll(what you can not even buy for plat, given that everybody thinks damage, multi shot and crit are the only good rolls on weapons) for the gun I will not completely replace my mara detron with the akbronko prime(while I did completely replace the akbronko prime with my mara detron back in the days) because oversized proc rates are not really that useful outside of armor and the mara detron is a very flexible status weapon(that works well enught with non stackable status effects while being one of a hand full of weapons in the game that can be modded viral, radiation, fire what is incredible powerful on Ember) with the full punch of a high damage secondary. The akbronko is much more limited after status modding in regards to total damage on the gun, especially before solving the reload and mag size problems what just cripple it for no good reason at all both for having fun with it at lower levels as a plain fun secondary shotgun that looks cool as well as at high levels, where it is the best anti armor scaling hand cannon in the game. This is good(if you overlook that you need a riven to make the akbronko prime work with Ember, similar as the boar prime what is just stupid in my opinion) because it given 2 very strong secondary weapons, that both share that they are looked down at by the majority of the community as bad weapons a place to coexist in the hands of people that like her function and value her performance at high levels as what it is, what is actually fairly good compared to other options.

Void damage in comparison would scale better then any other weapon in the hands of a new player against armor and only armor, it would scale better if you use a lot of damage multipliers(roar, sonar, mprime, stealth etc.) while outside of this would be the much less appealing then other options that got just straight more base damage, what is again the only benchmark for the weapon against non armored targets, since it does not offer anything else interesting.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Djego27