Design Council Challenge Discussion and Feedback

[(PSN)xxav1xl6ivax]

Just a funny (cynical) notion for a design council challenge defense mission; having just figured what the heck, I haven't built any frames with the concept of absorbing heavy AoE, while Lobbing the same, while defending a hunk of cargo that wasn't built to do either of those either.

So on the way cynical side, I figured why not just set it up as a nuclear detonation defense mission.  Solo, or as a team of four, go in to take positions to defend a crypto pod, and then whatever superpower is so interested in wiping it out can just start hitting it and everything trying to defend it with orbital strikes from a capital ship. 

OK, so that's the absurdly cynical POV that emerges with the realization that basically any enemy faction has comparatively limitless stockpiled giant weapons, armies and tech, and so the idea that four ground Tenno warframe would really stand any chance against a serious effort made by any faction to destroy an exposed crypto pod that is sitting right on their own turf becomes sort of silly when you put just a little thought into it.

So how can the impracticality be REALISTICALLY offset in such a way that the enemy force can still be just as difficult to beat at trying to protect an asset against while on their territory, while providing a scenario which explains how and why they even bother to send any conventional forces in at all (by contrast with things like Kela De Thaym's Orbital Strikes, which would be hard enough to survive just as Tenno stuck in an arena size area, never mind having to defend something like a crypto pod sitting in the dead center of that arena against them).

But there-in may lie the answer to how to CREATE a challenging defense scenario from an already existing set of environments to use.  In short, stage a defense type mission on Merrow, of a crypto pod, or even something else for a change, that can be plausibly explained as having been discovered in the aftermath of Keyla's defeat at her own game.  The scenario and the scene are already made, there and waiting, and it becomes plausible that Grineer would have to armor up heavy to try to penetrate in to the point where Tenno have become duty-bound to defend.

 

But that is just using some imagination to creatively design a set of circumstances with new heavy challenge potentials out of what already exists.  Not really the same sort of design as how to do nearly the equivalent of just nuking a spot, but not actually doing that (but for no good reason) so that nuke-proof local counter nuke res can defend the nuke site ... until reinforcements arrive ... to do ... what? And why? Who knows ... (but then again, if it were known, it would be something that more players would care more about probably).

 

just a thought

 

 

[Zookes]

1 hour ago, (PS4)xxav1xl6ivax said:

JSo on the way cynical side, I figured why not just set it up as a nuclear detonation defense mission.  Solo, or as a team of four, go in to take positions to defend a crypto pod, and then whatever superpower is so interested in wiping it out can just start hitting it and everything trying to defend it with orbital strikes from a capital ship.

Think more tho about this!

You are the bad faction. You have a very important airbase in a very important place for military logistics. The good faction infiltrates now your airbase and is stealing sensitive cargo on the runway. It is ideal to somehow stop them, yes?

Do you....
a - dispatch ground troops to kill the invaders and try also to destroy the sensitive cargo before they escape?
b - nuke your very important airbase?

[Demon.King]

At this point I consider the design council completely taken over by trolls. Designing missions made of broken units while knowing DE will never fix said units.

I'd rather they just tried to design interesting missions, then show how broken those units are (which everyone knows already and are still ignored)

Edited May 13, 2017 by Demon.King

[Cpl_Facehugger]

35 minutes ago, Demon.King said:

At this point I consider the design council completely taken over by trolls. Designing missions made of broken units while knowing DE will never fix said units.

Actually, the winner by far votewise for enemies in this mission were Prodmen and Oxium ospreys. Nullifiers were a very, very distant second, and so were sapping ospreys. We got some oxium ospreys in the mission but they were outnumbered by sappers even though oxium ospreys won comfortably, and I didn't see a single prodman even though prods won by more than fifty percent of the vote. Practically the only thing we actually got was Sarge at the end and the eximus condition.

This is a case of DE deciding to ignore the will of the council for the council challenge. And I'm really disappointed by it because it felt like any other corpus sortie 3 eximus defense when I was looking forward to a glorious prodman flash mob.

If DE's gonna ask us (council) to design a mission, they should actually listen to our will when they implement it instead of going "oh lol, nulls and sappers even though those weren't the council's first choice."

Edited May 13, 2017 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Rolunde]

1 hour ago, Cpl_Facehugger said:

Actually, the winner by far votewise for enemies in this mission were Prodmen and Oxium ospreys. Nullifiers were a very, very distant second, and so were sapping ospreys. We got some oxium ospreys in the mission but they were outnumbered by sappers even though oxium ospreys won comfortably, and I didn't see a single prodman even though prods won by more than fifty percent of the vote. Practically the only thing we actually got was Sarge at the end and the eximus condition.

This is a case of DE deciding to ignore the will of the council for the council challenge. And I'm really disappointed by it because it felt like any other corpus sortie 3 eximus defense when I was looking forward to a glorious prodman flash mob.

If DE's gonna ask us (council) to design a mission, they should actually listen to our will when they implement it instead of going "oh lol, nulls and sappers even though those weren't the council's first choice."

 

Sounds more like DE has been poling the DC and then going with the exact opposite of the majority vote.

"Let's see... what got the fewest votes? Nullifiers and Sappers huh? OK, well there's what we're going to use then!" =p

I know we just had a melee only last time but a melee only against the Prodmen flash mob would have been a lot of fun.

Maybe throw on the Nightmare condition of Energy Drain to cut down on stuff like Valkyr and Mesa and let it really be "melee only" (although then the meta would be "took an EV Trinity with a (nuke frame here), l2 ez, ols " of course... /sigh)

 

[Demon.King]

3 hours ago, Cpl_Facehugger said:

Actually, the winner by far votewise for enemies in this mission were Prodmen and Oxium ospreys. Nullifiers were a very, very distant second, and so were sapping ospreys. We got some oxium ospreys in the mission but they were outnumbered by sappers even though oxium ospreys won comfortably, and I didn't see a single prodman even though prods won by more than fifty percent of the vote. Practically the only thing we actually got was Sarge at the end and the eximus condition.

This is a case of DE deciding to ignore the will of the council for the council challenge. And I'm really disappointed by it because it felt like any other corpus sortie 3 eximus defense when I was looking forward to a glorious prodman flash mob.

If DE's gonna ask us (council) to design a mission, they should actually listen to our will when they implement it instead of going "oh lol, nulls and sappers even though those weren't the council's first choice."

So you're saying DE are simply using the Design Council name for their alerts so they can conveniently blame them for their trolling?...

No comment DE...

[(PSN)LeonidasxGGG]

4 hours ago, Cpl_Facehugger said:

DE's gonna ask us (council) to design a mission, they should actually listen to our will when they implement it instead of going "oh lol, nulls and sappers even though those weren't the council's first choice."

Sad to ear this... Really sad.

This time it was a doable mission do, with the right frames in the right team (Juggernaut with onky melee was a bit much). But for 3 Nitain Extratcs I think only masoquists and players actually looking for a challenge did this one - I am on of them, and it is no wonder that after a while almost only high MR (20 or higher) were even trying anymore. Fortunatelly, I got a Limbo in my squad that tottaly destroyed everything with Cataclim (93% of total damage), and the boss died in about 3 seconds... Didn't even landed a shot on him.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

21 hours ago, Demon.King said:

So you're saying DE are simply using the Design Council name for their alerts so they can conveniently blame them for their trolling?...

No comment DE...

 

Basically. They said that they would take the top two units from each category... But apparently taking the top two means they take the runner up in all cases except the boss and the mission modifier, since the winners were Prods, Shockwave Moas, Oxium Ospreys, and Sarge. And I'm not talking about small winners here. Prods won more than 50% of the vote, and the others won by almost as much.

Granted there were some oxium ospreys and shockwave moas, but it sure felt like there were more sappers and antimoas than oxium and shockwaves, even though those won by a lot.

It's really unfortunate because the mission could have had a different flavor to anything we've had before, but instead it's little different than any other high level corpus eximus defense.

[(XBOX)DeluxeKnight831]

On 5/13/2017 at 4:28 PM, Demon.King said:

So you're saying DE are simply using the Design Council name for their alerts so they can conveniently blame them for their trolling?...

No comment DE...

this. these challenges only exist for this purpose as far as i can tell . 

[(PSN)xxav1xl6ivax]

On 5/13/2017 at 3:46 AM, Zookes said:

Think more tho about this!

You are the bad faction. You have a very important airbase in a very important place for military logistics. The good faction infiltrates now your airbase and is stealing sensitive cargo on the runway. It is ideal to somehow stop them, yes?

Do you....
a - dispatch ground troops to kill the invaders and try also to destroy the sensitive cargo before they escape?
b - nuke your very important airbase?

 

My apologies for employing too casual a meaning for what is really a pretty clear and specific term - nuke. Poor choice of words on my part. I was trying to intone a basic sort of catch-all term to imply any sort of measure which would simply destroy a given theater or area of conflict.

As an example: Even though it was completely unnecessary for me to do, when designing and building my dojo I established the labs at the upper most of three levels. When stacked, the design maintains the Orokin and Energy labs well and deep within, and the Oracle and Tenno lab within a decently fortified part of the structure (using the dojo image provided as a basis for figuring approximately where things are situated). At the furthest end from the central x connector joining the three distinct lab sections is a discreet cross connector, which comes the closest to reaching the upper hull, giving access to the Chem Lab, Bio Lab, and an independent reactor. The underlying design theory behind this was that if it could be possible for the dojo to become subject to any sort of hazard (which at present it just isn't), then the Bio lab, Chem Lab, or entire isolated section, reactor and all, could be jettisoned. If anything were to go afoul with either of those labs which could compromise the dojo or any of its constituents or inhabitants, being able to merely destroy one or both of those labs, or the wing, is preferable to having to pour enormous amounts of resources, potentially entirely in vain, into containment and normalization.

Another way to look at it - Before the Glast Gambit, I wound up on an extermination mission on a ship that was so thoroughally infested as to be obviously beyond salvage. But afterwards I was left wondering, why the hell bother to send me in and extract, and then leave a plague ship floating around.  Sure, maybe luck could hold indefinitely, and it would never be discovered, but really it was a seemingly ridiculous and unnecessary risk; both to send me in, and to not destroy the whole ship (one which was mitigated post-hoc by the introduction of the colony which is able to conduct constructive salvage on such ships).

 

So when it comes to Defense missions, things have already been stretched to the furthest degrees of reason with scenarios that provide the basis for them. In other words, on one hand there is the stretch of thinking which can manage to rationalize needing to "Defend The Bomb." And there is the most common sort of defense mission, which really requires a bit of disconnect from practical thinking in order to extend beyond what would be the minimum amount of time, especially since the set-up is usually pretty hard to comprehend - "the enemy is at OUR doorstep?" No, this is their turf. If it were a dojo or Relay, that would be another story.  But we're breaking in to get ourselves positioned on their doorstep, to defend something which having discovered is there, they want to DESTROY.  And of course killing a bunch of Tenno also is frosting on the cake.

 

So when it comes to allocating gratuitous amounts of resources in order to accomplish destroying something that's already on their turf, it just becomes impossible to find any way to really take the scenario seriously, when all you really have to imagine is a "drop ship" being positioned akin to the way you might see a grand piano, or 10 ton Acme Safe dangled by a rope in a Warner Brothers cartoon. Whump! Everything below completely splatted.