What If We Put Aura's On Sentinels Instead

[Relkin]

And when your sentinel dies you lose the aura...Balancing point here.

 

This is true, but.  Yes there is a but.  Having an aura take up mod points is a balance of its new power, removing that and people can just go back to redonk builds (not that they don't have them with this).  Adding it to your sent and letting it be lost for the match when your sent dies is a nice balance given that sents aren't all that powerful anyways and dumping an aura onto one in lieu of something more meh is a no brainer and essentially gives you free power which isn't exactly something we need atm given how we can rofl stomp most stuff in this game.   

[DoMe_22_]

Why isn't this implemented by now !!!

[Relkin]

Why isn't this implemented by now !!!

It's Sunday....

[DoMe_22_]

It's Sunday....

So....This is more important.

[Relkin]

So....This is more important.

Do you even have a job?  

[EclipsedHusky]

This is true, but.  Yes there is a but.  Having an aura take up mod points is a balance of its new power, removing that and people can just go back to redonk builds (not that they don't have them with this).  Adding it to your sent and letting it be lost for the match when your sent dies is a nice balance given that sents aren't all that powerful anyways and dumping an aura onto one in lieu of something more meh is a no brainer and essentially gives you free power which isn't exactly something we need atm given how we can rofl stomp most stuff in this game.   

Oh I totally agree with you man. I actually LIKE the new system, makes forma have a worth more than making rooms. And it makes it so it is just "Here is your free energy, or free radar" People asked for a harder game, U9 gave us that. I for one wish the system be left alone besides possibly removing a polarity all together so it is a blank. But then they suited the aura to the frames as a way to hint at its support feature.

[kiwicanfly]

+1

[Fionntan]

/signed

[Clasbyte]

Do you even have a job?  

 

I guess so that is why he knows that something like that is more important then spending a free day :), i mean taking care of your product.

[Relkin]

Oh I totally agree with you man. I actually LIKE the new system, makes forma have a worth more than making rooms. And it makes it so it is just "Here is your free energy, or free radar" People asked for a harder game, U9 gave us that. I for one wish the system be left alone besides possibly removing a polarity all together so it is a blank. But then they suited the aura to the frames as a way to hint at its support feature.

 

Yeah, I find that people are more or less complaining one the basis of three faulty reasons.

 

1.  We gotta use Forma now and Forma is a cash grab!  Except I can't play this game for more than 60 minutes without forma dropping into my lap.  

 

2.  You screwed up mah builds!  You changed everything whats wrong with you?!  Except the games in beta and we are, beta testers.  S#&$ changes, it is our job to decide if those changes are good, bad, or just need tweaking.  Railing against a change because it is a change or messes with the synergy of a previous system even though it adds a new layer of depth to builds is shaky grounds.

 

3. (This is my favorite because its the most absurd)  We lose flexibility!! What if I wanted to use the other artifact...you know...what was it called...wait there was more than two?  OK people, lets take a step back and be REAL honest here.  How often have you actually seen people running with something other than energy siphon?  Really now, the other artifacts were pretty much trash.  This new system at its core encourages the use of other artifacts.  

 

 

The key to making the new system work is finding a way to restricting the ability to seamlessly swap between the top tier versions of these auras without penalty while still letting players use the low tier versions at will without penalty.  Perhaps implement a cap system so that the polarity doesn't "activate" until the aura is above level x.  This will allow people to mix and mash without penalty with the lower powered versions but if they rank it to max they'll have to actually make a decision regarding their build.

[Relkin]

I guess so that is why he knows that something like that is more important then spending a free day :), i mean taking care of your product.

 

Except the product is in a completely usable state, this isn't remotely game breaking and this isn't exactly a medical product either bud.  GG

[Jeahanne]

Yeah, I find that people are more or less complaining one the basis of three faulty reasons.

 

1.  We gotta use Forma now and Forma is a cash grab!  Except I can't play this game for more than 60 minutes without forma dropping into my lap.  

 

2.  You screwed up mah builds!  You changed everything whats wrong with you?!  Except the games in beta and we are, beta testers.  S#&$ changes, it is our job to decide if those changes are good, bad, or just need tweaking.  Railing against a change because it is a change or messes with the synergy of a previous system even though it adds a new layer of depth to builds is shaky grounds.

 

3. (This is my favorite because its the most absurd)  We lose flexibility!! What if I wanted to use the other artifact...you know...what was it called...wait there was more than two?  OK people, lets take a step back and be REAL honest here.  How often have you actually seen people running with something other than energy siphon?  Really now, the other artifacts were pretty much trash.  This new system at its core encourages the use of other artifacts.  

 

 

The key to making the new system work is finding a way to restricting the ability to seamlessly swap between the top tier versions of these auras without penalty while still letting players use the low tier versions at will without penalty.  Perhaps implement a cap system so that the polarity doesn't "activate" until the aura is above level x.  This will allow people to mix and mash without penalty with the lower powered versions but if they rank it to max they'll have to actually make a decision regarding their build.

Ok I don't understand. If you're argument above states that there's nothing wrong with the current system, why do Auras need changed at all? Sorry, I'm just honestly curious.

[direcyphre]

I think the only times I've seen people run something other than energy siphon is when they don't have it yet. Enemy radar is at least mildly useful, the new aura version being slightly cheaper than the warframe mod version.

[EclipsedHusky]

The key to making the new system work is finding a way to restricting the ability to seamlessly swap between the top tier versions of these auras without penalty while still letting players use the low tier versions at will without penalty.  Perhaps implement a cap system so that the polarity doesn't "activate" until the aura is above level x.  This will allow people to mix and mash without penalty with the lower powered versions but if they rank it to max they'll have to actually make a decision regarding their build.

They could make this sort of thing happen, make it so the Aura can go to the level it use to be at as an artifact, any higher and the polarity activates.

[Lumireaver]

When I said this prior to U9 they called me fool.

[SJunior]

It is most definitely an issue, especially if the said new player is aiming for a different frame, each frame component costs 15k, with frame blueprints ranging to 25k, 70k for a single frame, not to mention some players would probably buy different weapons too, I know a lot of new players with friends who already play the game are suggested to buy the braton and ditch the MK-1, I do not think that restricting auras on sentinels is the proper way to do this, it would force a new player to decide between new gear and a sentinel. 

What is so wrong with that, Exactly?

 

I know when I was new I had to choose between wether I wanted to save up for a gun, Or save my credits for a new Frame when I farmed the parts. I chose the Gun. And then eventually, I saved up and got a new frame afterward.

 

It's just about prioritizing what you want first. You can live without a new Frame just as much as you can an Aura. Or a new Gun. If you really want the Frame first then by all mean get it first. And the senti later.

 

But you shouldn't expect to get it all right away.

 

 

Alright, if you have not read my argument on this, here are the main points. Some people do not have the credits, new players shouldn't prioritize sentinel JUST to use auras, even if they do get a sentinel for the benefits regenerating shield, they would need the mod for it first, that could take a while.

 

Why shouldn't they? It would finally make Sentinals worth-while to make. Besides having a cute little companion. And you can fully play and win almost all the levels without an Aura. I wasn't even aware of equiping cards/Aura until around mastery 3.

 

Bottom line for me anyway, Is it's just a small little buff, That isn't monumental to playing. Giving it to a support item like Sentinals, That aren't monumental to playing either, Wouldn't hurt.

 

-SJ

Edited July 15, 2013 by SJunior

[Clasbyte]

Not a beta they earn cash with it, but beside that.

 

Simplest solution, keep everything as it is, add the mastery rank as extra points to the frame problem solved, gamer happy with some extra points also helps to get better geared up for the new difficulty and we still need forma to reach the max power....

 

And i wish forma would drop in my lap every 60 mins.... its more like once a week for me.

 

Except the product is in a completely usable state, this isn't remotely game breaking and this isn't exactly a medical product either bud.  GG

 

Yeap you are right, dosent change the fact that stuff is broken and should get fixed :) not the auras ok they work as "intended" :D. But i guess that is a cultural thing. But of course you cant finish or fix a software project in one go, its not like a dry wall installation.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Clasbyte

[Relkin]

Ok I don't understand. If you're argument above states that there's nothing wrong with the current system, why do Auras need changed at all? Sorry, I'm just honestly curious.

 

Ah, let me clarify.

 

 I did not state their was no problem with the artifact, just that peoples arguments against it are faulty.  As I stated #2 is shaky ground, this system does add to build depth.  With that said, I feel that the trade must be relatively fair in that we gain what we lost in a different fashion or are given something better.  Frankly given the high cost of auras with polarity's I think we not only lose more (and as a result we see low user adoption and a voiding of the validity of this new system) but we actually have the same problems with the old system!

 

Here is why. I'm more than willing to give up a few mod points for a useful artifact (and yes, the new auras are far more useful than their predecessors) but I'm less willing to forma and re-level for something that is semi powerful but devastating in groups at the cost of no longer being able to contribute to group stacks of any other build without incurring a huge penalty.  It essentially gives us the same trap that we had with the old system where everybody used the energy siphon.  

Instead, my friend can lock in max level rifle amp and when we decide we need more DPS I can use a low level one at minimal cost.  In other situations where we want to spam abilities, he can use a low level siphon and I'll have my max level siphon equipped.  This system allows for and encourages team play and group contributions while still balancing new found power. 

 

So you see, my problem isn't the 3 arguments that everybody is squawking on this forum but is instead that this mod system doesn't fix what was broken but in an attempt to do so further compounds the issue.

[Relkin]

Not a beta they earn cash with it, but beside that.

 

Simplest solution, keep everything as it is, add the mastery rank as extra points to the frame problem solved, gamer happy with some extra points also helps to get better geared up for the new difficulty and we still need forma to reach the max power....

 

And i wish forma would drop in my lap every 60 mins.... its more like once a week for me.

 

Do you run defense --> then voids?  Because I have everything from bosses at this point (with the exception of the latest content of course) so that's pretty much what I do with my time.  

[Apsalus]

+1  Make it so, DE.

[Jeahanne]

I've run a few Artifacts myself, but the only ones I found next to entirely useless were scavenger ones (because I awlays pack ammo boxes anyway) and the ones like Steel Charge for melee damage and such (which were unnecessary for me at least). I used Corosive Projection, Infested Impedance, Energy Siphon and one other I can't remember the name of (it was that third one from the event that handed out the three possible new Artifacts) as the situation suited. I think the fact that people use(d) Enerygy Siphon so much isn't a crack so much on the old Artifact SYSTEM, but on the old artifacts THEMSELVES. If anything else had been as effective as it should have been from the start, then you wouldn't end up with people using the same Artifacts (or Auras) over and over and over again.

 

I think polarizing the new Auras is an attempt to force diversity by making it impossible to afford the energy cost of a high level Aura that doesn't fit your frame's polarity slot without Forma (and still won't fit until they fix the UI so you can tell what slot you're Forma-ing is actually the Aura one and not a normal one). I personally think, however, that this was the wrong way to do it since it doesn't force diversity but just Forma usage to get what Aura you want.

 

This is why I think being able to put Auras on Sentinels AND Warframe would be a better idea than the current system because:

 

A.) Less energy cost. Because let's face it, even as a beginner we NEVER have had enough points to mod like we want to, and perhaps that's not entirely bad. After all, having restrictions makes you have to really think about your build and your priorities, However, it takes a LOT of work to make even a normal build, and with most peope thier builds are already maxing out thier frames, sometimes even maxing them out in forma'd slots, which leaves little wiggle room and explains all the current raging. I'm not arguing to give us free mod points or anything, but I do think that people have a point when they say how frustrating it is to try to make mod points appear out of thin air for something that used to be free. It's a bit like going to McDonalds for a free ice water and they charge you a dollar. It might not be a lot of money, but being billed for anything that used to be free always feels like a rip-off.

 

B.) It would give Sentinels more utility than they currently have. As it is, Sentinels are only there to shoot things (sometimes), boost sheilds, stealth, and provide cover when reviving someone. I don't see much downside to making them MORE useful, especially if it's optional in the ability to use it to carry Auras and has some balancing factor that doesn't make putting an Aura in your Sentinel more useful than your frame.

 

C.) Letting Sentinels carry Auras would allow for greater mod flexibilty on warframes, which in turn allows for greater playstyle flexibility for players. Again, so long as there is a balance (like a dead Sentinel ending/reducing your Aura buff, ect. whereas having the Aura on your frame would not), I see no downside in doing this.

 

D.) Letting Sentinels use Auras would allow players a more diverse pool of Auras to choose from, promoting diversity of Aura usage. For example, my Trinity has a built in triangle Aura polarity, which limits what mods I can use. However, if I had a Sentinel with a polarity slot of bar or v, my options would be way more open on what I could use at-will than I would if I had to reforma my frame anytime I got a new Aura that didn't match my polarity (and I see this as something that is bound to happen as new Auras make their way into the game). This means I could effectively be a better team player (and better supporter) because I could be more flexible in equipping the best things for each situation. If I could utilize my Sentinel as well, it would work in the same way you might switch mods on your weapons depending on what enemy you fight; like adding in some fire damage to help deal with infested, or lighting for Corpus, ect.. Again, as long as there is a balance (like only being able to actually USE one Aura at a time), I fail to see a downside to this. As people who don't want a Sentinel (or can't afford it or whathaveyou), aren't forced too, they just take a hit on mod points. But for the people who want mod points above all else they have an alternative, even if it isn't a stable a garuantee at having thier Aura buff the whole mission.

 

None of this has anything to do with whinging or crying or raging. It has everything to do with trying to take a system that has potential in it already, and make it better. I fail to see how this is such a horrible idea.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Jeahanne

[Jeahanne]

Ah, let me clarify.

 

 I did not state their was no problem with the artifact, just that peoples arguments against it are faulty.  As I stated #2 is shaky ground, this system does add to build depth.  With that said, I feel that the trade must be relatively fair in that we gain what we lost in a different fashion or are given something better.  Frankly given the high cost of auras with polarity's I think we not only lose more (and as a result we see low user adoption and a voiding of the validity of this new system) but we actually have the same problems with the old system!

 

Here is why. I'm more than willing to give up a few mod points for a useful artifact (and yes, the new auras are far more useful than their predecessors) but I'm less willing to forma and re-level for something that is semi powerful but devastating in groups at the cost of no longer being able to contribute to group stacks of any other build without incurring a huge penalty.  It essentially gives us the same trap that we had with the old system where everybody used the energy siphon.  

Instead, my friend can lock in max level rifle amp and when we decide we need more DPS I can use a low level one at minimal cost.  In other situations where we want to spam abilities, he can use a low level siphon and I'll have my max level siphon equipped.  This system allows for and encourages team play and group contributions while still balancing new found power. 

 

So you see, my problem isn't the 3 arguments that everybody is squawking on this forum but is instead that this mod system doesn't fix what was broken but in an attempt to do so further compounds the issue.

I have to admit I completely agree with you, and your suggestion is a good one. They never really fixed the old system in the sense that we still end up locked into using a few specific mods instead of being able to use (or in the old case having good alternatives to) a variety of mods. It still needs major rework.

 

(Please note, my above post wasn't aimed at anyone in specific, but at the general grumbling I've been reading across this post for the past few hours.)

[Clasbyte]

Do you run defense --> then voids?  Because I have everything from bosses at this point (with the exception of the latest content of course) so that's pretty much what I do with my time.  

 

Have literally around 70 keys at the moment and cant manage to use em fast enough... but i am not yet finished with all bosses yet so that might be an issue that i dont spent there enough time, i am missing nyx to have em all and i like a complete warframe pool

[oKibbles]

Don't like auras going with sentinels because some people don't
even use sentinels because it affects their gameplay (Loki). Also
if your sentinel dies, then you lose the aura. My recommendation
as I'm sure many have already said, just take off the polarity and
remove the fact that it consumes power. If you're worried that the
aura is too strong for low ranked frames, maybe have it coincide
with the warframe's rank. Maybe something like this?

Rank 0 Warframe = 1 Power Cap to Aura
Rank 5 Warframe = 2 Power Cap to Aura
Rank 10 Warframe = 3 Power Cap to Aura
Rank 15 Warframe = 4 Power Cap to Aura
Rank 20 Warframe = 5 Power Cap to Aura
Rank 25 Warframe = 6 Power Cap to Aura

Rank 30 Warframe = 7 Power Cap to Aura.

This is merely an idea, could go good or bad o_o

[Jeahanne]

Don't like auras going with sentinels because some people don't

even use sentinels because it affects their gameplay (Loki). Also

if your sentinel dies, then you lose the aura. My recommendation

as I'm sure many have already said, just take off the polarity and

remove the fact that it consumes power. If you're worried that the

aura is too strong for low ranked frames, maybe have it coincide

with the warframe's rank. Maybe something like this?

Rank 0 Warframe = 1 Power Cap to Aura

Rank 5 Warframe = 2 Power Cap to Aura

Rank 10 Warframe = 3 Power Cap to Aura

Rank 15 Warframe = 4 Power Cap to Aura

Rank 20 Warframe = 5 Power Cap to Aura

Rank 25 Warframe = 6 Power Cap to Aura

Rank 30 Warframe = 7 Power Cap to Aura.

This is merely an idea, could go good or bad o_o

This is why it's been suggested over and over to have a CHOICE about putting Auras on your warframe OR your Sentinel. That way no one feels forced and either side of the arguement feels they have an acceptable alternative to doing something they'd hate.