Defense wave should NOT end before we have a chance to hack

[Xekrin]

Merely frustrating whenever it was a bursa that we were attempting to hack before the sudden end of a rotation, now it is just infuriating when attempting to hack Ambulas at the end of a rotation wave and this happens.

The wave should not be considered 'over' until any hackable enemy has been hacked and has done its little dance before finally exploding.  Or even better, if no other enemies are left, just make it explode instantly after being hacked.

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Preemptive responses

• No, I don't want to waste a cipher on a two tiled hack.
• Continuing to the next wave/rotation shouldn't be the 'fix', sometimes you just cannot stay for 10 more minutes.
• Yes this was only wave 15, but it can happen at wave 50 or wave 150 as well.
• No it shouldn't be the responsibility of the squad to play operator hockey with a 2nd to last enemy just to give us time to hack.

Does this cover all the 'git gud' responses?  Probably not, oh well.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Xekrin

[Phatose]

OK, how would you stop troll players from initiating a hack on that last hackable enemy, going as slow as possible, aborting at the last second and then restarting, thus preventing mission completion?

Edited May 10, 2017 by Phatose

[Hakanasa]

4 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

... any hackable enemy

For Ambulas, certainly agreed 300%. Bursas, not so much.

[Terranos-Rift]

8 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

The wave should not be considered 'over' until any hackable enemy has been hacked and has done its little dance before finally exploding.  Or even better, if no other enemies are left, just make it explode instantly after being hacked.

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Good suggestion as it also covers Bursas that spawn at the end of every 5th wave at med to high lvls.

Or just give an extra 60 seconds to avoid the possibility of players trolling as mentioned a couple of posts up.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Terranos-Rift

[(XBOX)neoxal]

37 minutes ago, Hakanasa said:

... Bursas, not so much.

Sometimes Bursas have a small chance to drop cool mods like Tempo Royale and if the wave ends before the Bursa explodes, then you lose that chance :c

[(XBOX)neoxal]

42 minutes ago, Phatose said:

OK, how would you stop troll players from initiating a hack on that last hackable enemy, going as slow as possible, aborting at the last second and then restarting, thus preventing mission completion?

I will add a cooldown time before he is able to try again, or I will only allow one hack attempt per player on a Bursa, in the end hacking Bursas is not quite relevant for the objective of the mission. 

[Aurea_Hiigara]

I hacked Ambulas in the three seconds you get before the round ends so many times.

Even despite my leet hacking skillz I completely agree - if a hackable enemy is available the round shouldn't end. As Neoxal points out, Bursas have a VERY interesting loot table when they get hacked.

[Xekrin]

1 hour ago, Phatose said:

OK, how would you stop troll players from initiating a hack on that last hackable enemy, going as slow as possible, aborting at the last second and then restarting, thus preventing mission completion?

You do not get infinite time loops doing this.  If you are too slow the bursa will 'die' even if you do not finish the hack.  As for Ambulas, a failed hack 'revives' him, and he attacks again.  

As to how to stop troll players, not exactly my problem.  DE can decide how to handle that.  Troll players should not be the limiting factor to adding a QoL change to the game.

1 hour ago, Aurea_Hiigara said:

I hacked Ambulas in the three seconds you get before the round ends so many times.

As have I, but those one or two times you are too slow or the wave ends faster than you can hack, it breeds fury.  But you agree, which is nice either way.

[Phatose]

5 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

You do not get infinite time loops doing this.  If you are too slow the bursa will 'die' even if you do not finish the hack.  As for Ambulas, a failed hack 'revives' him, and he attacks again.  

As to how to stop troll players, not exactly my problem.  DE can decide how to handle that.  Troll players should not be the limiting factor to adding a QoL change to the game.

Have to disagree in principle.  A change which empowers trolls doesn't improve quality of life.

 

[Xekrin]

2 hours ago, Phatose said:

Have to disagree in principle.  A change which empowers trolls doesn't improve quality of life.

You quoted it, yet somehow I get the feeling you did not actually read the important parts.

YOU CANNOT INFINITE TIME HACK ANY HACKABLE ENEMY.  Bursa blows up after like 10 seconds REGARDLESS of hacking failure, and Ambulas revives.

And even if someone were crazy enough to kill ambulas, hack it, let the timer run down, kill it again, hack it again and repeat the process, DE can easily just make it like the bursa with a 10 second 'hack it or it explodes' deal.

Either way, Troll no win.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Xekrin

[Sunako.Kirishiki]

What I would suggest is, just freeze everything when the wave selection menu pops up.

Just like they did to the relic selection screen in endless fissures, everything freezes when you're selecting relics. That would be a nice QoL change in my opinion. Also, people's melee combo counter won't lost if they add this "freeze" feature when wave ends.

[Xekrin]

8 minutes ago, -Metalhead- said:

What I would suggest is, just freeze everything when the wave selection menu pops up.

I've been meaning to suggest this as well, along with the 5 second countdown prior to wave ending (in fissure missions), but frankly I think defense waves are too long as-is and I abhor having to forcibly increase that delay.  

I suppose a flat end of rotation time increase would work just as good.

Freezing though should have happened at the same time they added it to fissure endless anyway.

[Phatose]

1 hour ago, Xekrin said:

You quoted it, yet somehow I get the feeling you did not actually read the important parts.

YOU CANNOT INFINITE TIME HACK ANY HACKABLE ENEMY.  Bursa blows up after like 10 seconds REGARDLESS of hacking failure, and Ambulas revives.

And even if someone were crazy enough to kill ambulas, hack it, let the timer run down, kill it again, hack it again and repeat the process, DE can easily just make it like the bursa with a 10 second 'hack it or it explodes' deal.

Either way, Troll no win.

I read it, just disagreed with a specific portion of it.  In particular, the principal that troll players should not be the limiting factor on a quality of life change when a change allows trolls to use the change to reduce the quality of other player's lives. 

It's nice to know that infinite lock up via Bursas won't happen.   If air dropped Ambulases are to stay, the countdown or some other limiting factor is a necessity to keep the change an improvement on quality of life, and never a detriment.

I'd actually suggest one further change.  While the end of round is waiting on a hackable target, multiple players should be allowed to hack said target at the same time.  That way, any player always has the option of hacking the target and cannot be blocked, which should allow faster hackers or those willing to use ciphers to accelerate the process. That way it doesn't needless slow down the end of a round more then necessary. 

[Xekrin]

1 hour ago, Phatose said:

I read it, just disagreed with a specific portion of it.  In particular, the principal that troll players should not be the limiting factor on a quality of life change when a change allows trolls to use the change to reduce the quality of other player's lives.

Fair point, so let me clarify a bit.  When someone suggests a change to a current mechanic that could theoretically allow trolls or jerks or what have you further their agenda, consider that such a change will also come with additional troll-aware precautions.

If the original idea does not come with one, feel free to suggestion your own.  At the time of my creating this thread, my only intent was to remove the hassle missing out on hackable enemies' loot, and being forced into the next rotation just to access it.  I wasn't really thinking about how easily players will ill intent could exploit such a change.

That really should be left in the capable hands of developers, and if not, other players.  So my original intent behind what I wrote earlier was don't let the possibility of trolls be something that immediately turns you or someone off an idea.  There are ways to stop trolls too that don't require denying reasonable ideas.