The current weapon balance; Buffs are great, but what about nerfs?

[Condeangel]

In general, I think the formula of "buffing, not nerfing" works pretty well. Why? Because this is a "never ending" game after all. You can meet lvl 150 (probably more, no idea) enemies, yet the standart-high is meeting lvl 30. So i think that the important part is that each single weapon is viable against level 40-50 enemies. 

Also, you might have worked hard towards a goal, and then when you finally reach it, you get your precious item, being nerfed and "useless" (because lets face it. In general, a nerf makes the "object" in question useless compared to other similars). As DE have stated with the Hema situation, they wont nerf anything that is not gamebreaking, simply to not disrespect players that have worked towards it. So in the Hema case, instead of decreasing the materials required, they slightly buffed the droprate of the materials. Might feel the same for a lot of players, but feels different for me. They made it so it was not a waste of materials for those who already spend the resources. And i think that is a very good thing.

And now, the "biased" weapons. The shotguns. They have a huge damage. True. And there are 2 reasons about that. FIRST of all, the downsides: Low magazines, medium reload speed, short range. This are great downsides in warframe, because you are likely be in a 1 vs 20 ratio. Take the tigris or the hek as an example. They are the top damage shotguns imo. Why? 2 and 4 shots in the magazine. And that makes them basically a "I need a TON of damage" weapon. A situational weapon if you want. Because lets face it. Reload for 3 seconds each second is not fun. And the SECOND, the multishot. Multishot in shotguns is very noticeable, because it affects each single shot, unlike the other weapons. A rifle with a high multishot mod shoots 2 bullets 75% of the time, but not always. A shotgun with the same mod instead of 10, shoots 17 pellets. Always. That means you never "waste" the slot of the mod.

However. I do agree that the shotguns looks pretty amazing in DPS, but remember. The melees have the melee counter to increase their damage. The snipers have the dead aim multipliers, and combos too, with the ability to engage targets at long ranges. The rifles have the acuracy, the automatic rifles have the magazines, and the sidearms.. are sidearms. They are ok (yet many needs serious buffs). Each weapons has its playstyle. And shotguns are about destroying anything that is in close range, ASAP. They are the "frontline" in weapons terms.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Condeangel

[DeathGold]

On 6/29/2017 at 1:56 PM, Da_Atte said:

As of the latest update (Chains of Harrow) I was pretty excited to see some of the weapons getting buffs/slight reworks. I am grateful Mara Detron got some love for a long time as it is one of my favorite secondaries to use.

But then again, when new buffs come out, I always think what about the possible and needed nerfs for some... unnamed weapons in the game. We all know what they are so I'm not really going to go into too much detail.

The game heavily relies on burst and high damage weapons. There's really no point in using weapons that deal lower damage because the "end game" enemies will resist a lot of the damage you will deal unless you got Slash or your weapon is built with the best possible elements for killing that certain type of enemy.

While Mods make a huge difference in how you're going to build and use your weapon there's one problem in some of the weapons: the base damage. It goes both ways. Some of the weapons are extremely weak and some of them are extremely powerful. And right now there still are weapons that will be in the top-tier, defined by the community, even if you have a powerful Riven Mod in the other weapon and no Riven in the more powerful one. And in the end, even a Faint Riven Mod can make a huge difference when it comes to balance.

So. Yeah. I'm not really sure what I was trying to say. We all know this issue is a huge problem in the game and we all know there are a handful of Primaries, Secondaries and Melee weapons that will outmatch almost any other weapon in the game.

Still waiting for actual difficulty rework to the game and not just increasingly tougher enemies. Artificial difficulty isn't difficult. Just limiting.

so you mean make good weapons bad so your favorite weapons shine .... that is not balancing every weapon can be good on it's own some weapons are meant to be for new players for exemple the lato / aklato some of them are late game like tigris prime some medium weapons don't know where to sit as they have maybe high MR or they just don't do what they are supposed to do .... i mean we all know you're talking about weapons like tigris prime or soma prime .... well rivens make soma useless it's a bad weapon imo i could easily replace it with any thing else and have a better kill time tigris prime is good but you're not obliged to use it to have results i didn't use it for quite a  long time now and if i ever want to use a primary shotgun i use a strun wraith because i have a medium riven with +multishot + reload speed that  make the weapon better than the tigris p for me , imo nerfs should only be applied to weapons that are abused like the old simulor and the tonkor  , the game has many weapons that are very good and you can pick whatever you want and until i begin to see a weapon / a frame/weapon combo being abused in public squad i don't see why any of that should be nerfed 

[Da_Atte]

23 minutes ago, DeathGold said:

so you mean make good weapons bad so your favorite weapons shine ....

Are you really that narrow minded?  

I want to ask you. What weapons do you use? What are your favorite weapons mechanic side? What do you think are the most overpowered weapons? What are the most underrated weapons?

If you're going to say same weapons to all of those questions you have no idea what balance is. EDIT: Strike the underrated part. But to the others.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Da_Atte

[DeathGold]

12 minutes ago, Da_Atte said:

Are you really that narrow minded?  

I want to ask you. What weapons do you use? What are your favorite weapons mechanic side? What do you think are the most overpowered weapons? What are the most underrated weapons?

If you're going to say same weapons to all of those questions you have no idea what balance is.

my best weapon isn't a top tier one it's the akmagnus -akbronco prime most op weapon .... it's hard i don't really know maybe the strun wraith if you have  a decent riven the most underrated weapons ? (you mean weapons that are unused but are good ?) i'd say rakta cernos , dual toxocyst and pandero (for melee i really like the venka prime and the orvius they are decent weapons)
edit : for mechanic side i'd say Azima for the beyblade and tenora  /zenith for the "proc a lot of corrosive then finish him with a big crit" side

Edited August 15, 2017 by DeathGold

[Da_Atte]

Just now, DeathGold said:

rakta cernos , dual toxocyst and pandero (for melee i really like the venka prime and the orvius they are decent weapons)

Those weapons are not underrated... So you have no idea what are the most or more used weapons. If you think those are "underrated" you have no idea of any of the weapons that are viable.

And this is what I mean. Those are not underrated. Poeple love those weapons (Orvius splitting the people though) and they definitely are not underrated and under used.

[DeathGold]

3 minutes ago, Da_Atte said:

Those weapons are not underrated... So you have no idea what are the most or more used weapons. If you think those are "underrated" you have no idea of any of the weapons that are viable.

And this is what I mean. Those are not underrated. Poeple love those weapons (Orvius splitting the people though) and they definitely are not underrated and under used.

tell me orvius isn't underrated is a straight lie no one use glaives and if they do it's "glaive prime" for the zakti combo  for venka i didn't say it's underrated  rakta cernos is never seen in public squads like after 1 year of existance i saw nearly every weapon in public but not the rakta cernos i even saw the rakta balistica dual toxocyst are overlooked coz it's "an akstilletto prime with less fire rate" pandero isn't used a lot coz people prefer the lex and they say "the recoil is too big"  while they can't use it properly
EDIT : underrated weapons don't mean the weapons you don't use ... every body have opinions yours isn't always the truth  or the only choice

Edited August 15, 2017 by DeathGold

[13QZXXTTX]

3 hours ago, DeathGold said:

tell me orvius isn't underrated is a straight lie no one use glaives and if they do it's "glaive prime" for the zakti combo  for venka i didn't say it's underrated  rakta cernos is never seen in public squads like after 1 year of existance i saw nearly every weapon in public but not the rakta cernos i even saw the rakta balistica dual toxocyst are overlooked coz it's "an akstilletto prime with less fire rate" pandero isn't used a lot coz people prefer the lex and they say "the recoil is too big"  while they can't use it properly
EDIT : underrated weapons don't mean the weapons you don't use ... every body have opinions yours isn't always the truth  or the only choice

@DeathGold 

@Da_Atte is one salty player alright. Soon after 1,000 Hour (Da_Atte is currently at 844 Hours).

After doing 1,000 Hours do you realize how repetitive WarFrames was some time. :| Simply Put it better than most Games, but it not even Complete to begin with. (By far, I know of 2 Good Dev who shut their Online Game for Changes, who knows. And a boatload dozens of DEAD X.X Games that resembled each other).

Now going by MOST Tennos and Players who had experienced WarFrames, they would say "Play Weapons that fit your style". 

And you know what, I DO NOT regret building Opticor, Angstrum, and even Tonkor Again after having to sell them. Q.Q 

 

WarFrame indeed require Patients (About 5 Years for some Game Devs). So you either Login and wait for Updates or just do some thing else in the meantime.

Thanks for stopping by.

[DeathGold]

2 minutes ago, DesFrSpace said:

@DeathGold 

@Da_Atte is one salty player alright. Soon after 1,000 Hour (Da_Atte is currently at 844 Hours).

After doing 1,000 Hours do you realize how repetitive WarFrames was some time. :| Simply Put it better than most Games, but it not even Complete to begin with. (By far, I know of 2 Good Dev who shut their Online Game for Changes, who knows. And a boatload dozens of DEAD X.X Games that resembled each other).

Now going by MOST Tennos and Players who had experienced WarFrames, they would say "Play Weapons that fit your style". 

And you know what, I DO NOT regret building Opticor, Angstrum, and even Tonkor Again after having to sell them. Q.Q 

 

WarFrame indeed require Patients (About 5 Years for some Game Devs). So you either Login and wait for Updates or just do some thing else in the meantime.

Thanks for stopping by.

warframe always required patience that's not new playing the way that fit your style is what kept this game running for 5 years there is a variety of weapons to choose from but trying to ruin other playing experiences by asking the devs to nerf any weapon you don't like isn't good  some people say this weapon is bad others say "i don't like this weapon" other say "this weapon is op" and others say "i find this weapon to be fairly strong" it's all about opinions but new players always repeat what a random dude tell them they told me "soma prime is op" bought a set for 50 plat put 4 forma into it tried every build i could imagine didn't like  it  i didn't say it's a bad weapon i just said i don't like playing with it every one have opinions and you're free to rebuild your tonkor for me i never liked this weapon not because it was broken op or so it's because the bounce and the mechanics 

[Da_Atte]

1 hour ago, DesFrSpace said:

@DeathGold 

@Da_Atte is one salty player alright. Soon after 1,000 Hour (Da_Atte is currently at 844 Hours).

After doing 1,000 Hours do you realize how repetitive WarFrames was some time. :| Simply Put it better than most Games, but it not even Complete to begin with. (By far, I know of 2 Good Dev who shut their Online Game for Changes, who knows. And a boatload dozens of DEAD X.X Games that resembled each other).

Now going by MOST Tennos and Players who had experienced WarFrames, they would say "Play Weapons that fit your style". 

And you know what, I DO NOT regret building Opticor, Angstrum, and even Tonkor Again after having to sell them. Q.Q 

 

WarFrame indeed require Patients (About 5 Years for some Game Devs). So you either Login and wait for Updates or just do some thing else in the meantime.

Thanks for stopping by.

What were you trying to say? No seriously, I understood nothing. Something about using weapons you like or what..? How was I salty when I just stated some of the weapons are so useless and rather hard to acquire that they can't be beginner weapons and some of the weapons are far more efficient than others. Karak Wraith for example isn't easy to acquire yet it is not that good. Even with great Riven Mod it still feels under performing.

1 hour ago, DeathGold said:

tell me orvius isn't underrated is a straight lie no one use glaives and if they do it's "glaive prime" for the zakti combo  for venka i didn't say it's underrated  rakta cernos is never seen in public squads like after 1 year of existance i saw nearly every weapon in public but not the rakta cernos i even saw the rakta balistica dual toxocyst are overlooked coz it's "an akstilletto prime with less fire rate" pandero isn't used a lot coz people prefer the lex and they say "the recoil is too big"  while they can't use it properly
EDIT : underrated weapons don't mean the weapons you don't use ... every body have opinions yours isn't always the truth  or the only choice

I said Orvius splits people in half. The half likes, the other half doesn't. I didn't say it was overrated nor underrated. And that's nothing. Even if you never see weapons some weapons you think the weapons you mentioned are unpopular? No. Even though Lex (for example) is used a lot doesn't mean the second, or even the third, choice is underrated. There are plenty of weapons people think that are underrated but if you ever look at the trade chat you will see a lot of people buying Riven Mods for the weapons you just mentioned. Maybe not the Cernos because of the Disposition.

[DeathGold]

14 hours ago, Da_Atte said:

What were you trying to say? No seriously, I understood nothing. Something about using weapons you like or what..? How was I salty when I just stated some of the weapons are so useless and rather hard to acquire that they can't be beginner weapons and some of the weapons are far more efficient than others. Karak Wraith for example isn't easy to acquire yet it is not that good. Even with great Riven Mod it still feels under performing.

I said Orvius splits people in half. The half likes, the other half doesn't. I didn't say it was overrated nor underrated. And that's nothing. Even if you never see weapons some weapons you think the weapons you mentioned are unpopular? No. Even though Lex (for example) is used a lot doesn't mean the second, or even the third, choice is underrated. There are plenty of weapons people think that are underrated but if you ever look at the trade chat you will see a lot of people buying Riven Mods for the weapons you just mentioned. Maybe not the Cernos because of the Disposition.

"the half likes it" you mean you ? you're half the community ? coz every dude i ever asked told me "mastery fodder bro" karak wraith is a good weapon and it's not hard to acquire it's an event weapon given for free or just do an invasion when it spawn that's not hard for me or any new player "feels under performing" you forgot the "imo" in this phrase ... have you ever saw some one saying "WTB orvius riven" no it's only scoliac (coz it's the only whip with decent disposition" and already strong weapons) the lex was always considered "top tier" by the majority of the community and now the aklex underrated mean that it's unused by most fo the community but a weapon that is actually good and wake up cernos rivens sells very well and fast not because of the disposition because the people know they can make it op with a riven if you have the perfect roll and i never saw some one wanting to buy / sella  riven for the pandero or orvius or the venka

[Da_Atte]

1 hour ago, DeathGold said:

"the half likes it" you mean you ? you're half the community ? coz every dude i ever asked told me "mastery fodder bro" karak wraith is a good weapon and it's not hard to acquire it's an event weapon given for free or just do an invasion when it spawn that's not hard for me or any new player "feels under performing" you forgot the "imo" in this phrase ... have you ever saw some one saying "WTB orvius riven" no it's only scoliac (coz it's the only whip with decent disposition" and already strong weapons) the lex was always considered "top tier" by the majority of the community and now the aklex underrated mean that it's unused by most fo the community but a weapon that is actually good and wake up cernos rivens sells very well and fast not because of the disposition because the people know they can make it op with a riven if you have the perfect roll and i never saw some one wanting to buy / sella  riven for the pandero or orvius or the venka

Tell me something new. But say, how many clips does it take to kill a level 150 Gunner Eximus with Karak Wraith with Godlike Riven? And then compare it with a weapon like [INSERT POPULAR WEAPON HERE] that actually performs better than Karak Wraith even without Riven Mod. That is what I mean about the balance. Some weapons just can't be compared to others since there is an invisible tier list for the weapons. Some of them may be Mastery Fodders but then the others are just ridiculous. I was in a Raid that had 4 people with Tigris Prime. So much for the variety.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Da_Atte

[DeathGold]

20 minutes ago, Da_Atte said:

Tell me something new. But say, how many clips does it take to kill a level 150 Gunner Eximus with Karak Wraith with Godlike Riven? And then compare it with a weapon like [INSERT POPULAR WEAPON HERE] that actually performs better than Karak Wraith even without Riven Mod. That is what I mean about the balance. Some weapons just can't be compared to others since there is an invisible tier list for the weapons. Some of them may be Mastery Fodders but then the others are just ridiculous. I was in a Raid that had 4 people with Tigris Prime. So much for the variety.

1 you're so salty bro chill and what you say mean karak need a buff not other weapons need a nerf  and bringing weapons to the raids is useless ...

Edited August 16, 2017 by DeathGold

[Fallen_Echo]

21 minutes ago, Da_Atte said:

. I was in a Raid that had 4 people with Tigris Prime. So much for the variety.

And?

I was in a sortie where everybody used the hek. It was not even a shotgun only sortie, they all just used that.

We have lots of weapons what are medicore, slightly useable, trash or straight up mastery fodders. Out of our 300 weapons i believe the useless guns take up atleast 50%. 

I cant count anymore how many times i have seen my favorite weapons in the hands of all my squadmates.

If we take out all useless guns and only take the well performing ones the chances that you will see them in the hands of others go up.

Just ask people in the region chat on which bow you should use and they all going to tell you to get the dread or the rakta cernos because the others are just mastery fodders.

 

[Da_Atte]

5 hours ago, DeathGold said:

1 you're so salty bro chill and what you say mean karak need a buff not other weapons need a nerf  and bringing weapons to the raids is useless ...

Or maybe you just don't understand anything and I have to use idiotic examples? What I'm saying is a bunch of weapons need a buff, some need nerf, and some need a complete rework.

4 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

And?

I was in a sortie where everybody used the hek. It was not even a shotgun only sortie, they all just used that.

We have lots of weapons what are medicore, slightly useable, trash or straight up mastery fodders. Out of our 300 weapons i believe the useless guns take up atleast 50%. 

I cant count anymore how many times i have seen my favorite weapons in the hands of all my squadmates.

If we take out all useless guns and only take the well performing ones the chances that you will see them in the hands of others go up.

Just ask people in the region chat on which bow you should use and they all going to tell you to get the dread or the rakta cernos because the others are just mastery fodders.

 

And you just proved my point. The balance is crap because there's only a handful of "viable" weapons when asked from the majority of the community.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Da_Atte

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, Da_Atte said:

And you just proved my point. The balance is crap because there's only a handful of "viable" weapons when asked from the majority of the community.

Ah sorry i thought you meant that some weapons are fodders while the others are simply overpowered.

Theres just too many weapons what needs strong buffs but the most vocal minority here focuses on "OP" weapons and nerfs.