Chains of Harrow feedback (HEAVY SPOILERS)

[Djolltax]

Shhh go away if you're not supposed to be here...

Spoiler

So this quest was brilliant. Haunting atmosphere, great new characters and, well, pretty ballsy to add an autistic (or similar) character into the game. Certainly something new there.

Something I'd just like to request or enquire about: The ending, where our Operator is sat on the desk clearly possessed by our father. Can we make that a random, reoccurring thing? Both me and my friend totally freaked out when it happened, and I feel like for players who have completed Chains of Harrow it might be nice as a little lore tid-bit. I know you like your teasers.

Keep up the good work DE.

^{_{Rap... Tap... Tap...}}

 

[redeyedtreefrog]

Out of curiosity, can you give more information on this event involving our operators? I never got anything of that sort; the only thing I experienced similar was that a ghostly voice said "hey there kiddo" on completing the quest. As far as I could tell, no visions.

[OGPlebian]

3 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

Out of curiosity, can you give more information on this event involving our operators? I never got anything of that sort; the only thing I experienced similar was that a ghostly voice said "hey there kiddo" on completing the quest. As far as I could tell, no visions.

I second this motion

[dreampuke]

7 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

Out of curiosity, can you give more information on this event involving our operators? I never got anything of that sort; the only thing I experienced similar was that a ghostly voice said "hey there kiddo" on completing the quest. As far as I could tell, no visions.

A copy of the operator was sitting on either the codex or market desks with black eyes. It disappeared after the player breaks line of sight.

 

Edited June 29, 2017 by dreampuke

[K4GZL]

 

[Genoscythe]

Well, the quest was OK. At first It was really atmospheric, but the teleporting-invincible enemy that spawns right in your face everytime you move 5 meters cheese broke it really quick.

 

I found the bossfight ridiculously cheap. DE really need to step up the game when it's about bossfight becuase it's either invincibility phase cancer, our weapons and all the equipment we farmed for aren't worth anything when it really counts e.g. we get taken all our abilities and guns away (operator-only mode) or it's some kind of puzzle where equipment also does not count. I really would like to see at least one really well done fight where all our abilities and guns count.

 

The quest design feels like DE don't have much experience in how to dose quest content. I mean going ghostbusting three times in a row was just too much, the second and third time it felt not new or exciting anymore, just repetitive. The same thing happend with the octavia quest bossfight. Sequencing everything right the first time would have been enough, the second and thirds time were just boring.

If you don't have enough content to make multiple missions interesting, why try to artificially stretch it and make it feel like a chore?

Edited June 29, 2017 by Genoscythe

[redeyedtreefrog]

Just now, dreampuke said:

A copy of the operator was sitting on either the codex or market desks with black eyes. It disappeared after the player breaks line of sight.

ah... so two apparitions then?

Spoiler

I would assume it's our parents, somehow, but I'm interested in seeing what this means... and of course, I'm interested in what the effects are of taking up harrow's protective duty.

 

[redeyedtreefrog]

1 minute ago, Genoscythe said:

I found the bossfight ridiculously cheap. DE really need to step up the game when it's about bossfight becuase it's either invincibility phase cancer, our weapons and all the equipment we farmed for aren't worth anything when it really counts e.g. we get taken all our abilities and guns away (operator-only mode) or it's some kind of puzzle where equipment also does not count. I really would like to see at least one really well done fight where all our abilities and guns count.

 

It's absolutely game-flow breaking and feels out of place.

DE has two options in regards to letting you face a boss head on: it can either die to one shot of a tonkor or tigris, or it can require minmaxed 3+forma mastery-locked gear with primed mods to be able to beat it in an acceptable time. Invincibility phases, as frustrating as they are, at least let the boss survive for more than the time it takes for a tonkor grenade to bounce. People still thought they were bad fights, though; so they added in some new boss fights which are more puzzle-based. Making a quest-related bossfight happen in operator-only mode is the ONLY way that DE has right now to make a fight that is equally challenging for all players, unless they did a puzzle-based bossfight that involves no actual fighting.

 

5 minutes ago, K4GZL said:

 

Also, I don't know what happened to its face, but dear lord is that a freaky smile.

[Genoscythe]

2 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

DE has two options in regards to letting you face a boss head on: it can either die to one shot of a tonkor or tigris, or it can require minmaxed 3+forma mastery-locked gear with primed mods to be able to beat it in an acceptable time. Invincibility phases, as frustrating as they are, at least let the boss survive for more than the time it takes for a tonkor grenade to bounce. People still thought they were bad fights, though; so they added in some new boss fights which are more puzzle-based. Making a quest-related bossfight happen in operator-only mode is the ONLY way that DE has right now to make a fight that is equally challenging for all players, unless they did a puzzle-based bossfight that involves no actual fighting.

 

They could also make bosses that are actually thought for well equipped players for once (and I don't mean upscaled like in sorties, but default hard). I just don't like the feeling that all my weapons, my powers and the time I invest into becoming better aren't worth anything, do you?

 

Apart from that, did you find the bossfight challenging? It was just kiting melee enemies while shooting and then kiting again to regenerate. It can't get more basic.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Genoscythe

[-Temp0-]

Either I'm blind or smth but I never got this thing.

Quote

I found the bossfight ridiculously cheap. DE really need to step up the game when it's about bossfight becuase it's either invincibility phase cancer, our weapons and all the equipment we farmed for aren't worth anything when it really counts e.g. we get taken all our abilities and guns away (operator-only mode) or it's some kind of puzzle where equipment also does not count. I really would like to see at least one really well done fight where all our abilities and guns count.

I just hate everything where Operator is involved. You can't even run ffs, everything is cluncky as hell and it's just ugh.

[redeyedtreefrog]

4 minutes ago, Genoscythe said:

Apart from that, did you find the bossfight challenging? It was just kiting melee enemies while shooting and then kiting again to regenerate. It can't get more basic.

I found it to be a neat bossfight; not a hard one, which I find to be a good thing in a quest such as this. Making a bossfight incredibly hard would lock out a portion of your playerbase until they got those weapons which would qualify them as "end-game players"... which then locks them out of harrow unless they buy him with platinum. Good for DE, bad for new player experience(which, spoilers, is where a good amount of their sales probably come from anyway). 

And there was a fair amount of simple strategy in it; weave around the pillars to keep out of sight of the cernos wielders, get close-ish to them and void dash for knockdowns and an easy kill. Void dash or void-blast the dagger wielders, and dodge around to avoid the waves sent out by the enemies with dark-swords. It's enough strategy for a bossfight such as that.

[Genoscythe]

8 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

I found it to be a neat bossfight; not a hard one, which I find to be a good thing in a quest such as this. Making a bossfight incredibly hard would lock out a portion of your playerbase until they got those weapons which would qualify them as "end-game players"... which then locks them out of harrow unless they buy him with platinum. Good for DE, bad for new player experience(which, spoilers, is where a good amount of their sales probably come from anyway). 

And there was a fair amount of simple strategy in it; weave around the pillars to keep out of sight of the cernos wielders, get close-ish to them and void dash for knockdowns and an easy kill. Void dash or void-blast the dagger wielders, and dodge around to avoid the waves sent out by the enemies with dark-swords. It's enough strategy for a bossfight such as that.

Actually you could jsut sprint around without getting hit by anything, cernos wielders did not lead, so as soon as you moved they didn't hit you, then you could just shoot the melee wielders while moving, it was really dead simple and did not require any tactic, just patience.

 

I don't have a problem with the majority of the playerbase being locked out of something by skill or progress, because that makes it more rewarding to acquire. Feeling rewarded is actually one of the core aspects of a game, and no matter how epic item X is, if everyone and his mom own it, it's just standard stuff and doesn ot feel special.

 

But I think you can see the balancing problems here: It is indeed hard to balance a boss when the players strenght in damage ranges from 30 per shot to a 3000k with a good melee crit. I found the kela fight the best one yet. While it is raw combat-wise (bad telegraphing, generally just chaos) it unites invincibility, puzzle and actual combat by an almost acceptable degree. I just would like to see more refinement there in the future, e.g. warframe powers affecting some enemies or bosses is highly inconsistent

[MsAligned]

apparently none of you have had to deal with 4 or more at a time.  apparently none of you noticed they actually do lead you on ranged attacks.  apparently none you noticed they can block all attacks.  apparently none of noticed they have knockback/knockdown on their attacks.  and none of you said they are all one hit kills!  and just run away, how? since they run faster than you.  and, of course, you forgot to mention how the energy blast curve around the pillars to hit  you.  so clearly you did not do the mission I have and your comment about skill is just bullS#&$!  I forgot one, the archers shoot you while stealthed. 

Edited June 30, 2017 by MsAligned