(PSN)abbacephas Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Déjà vu. I have yet to hear a reasonable and logical explanation as to why a Warframe that channels a particular element should, by default, be immune to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Graysmog Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said: Déjà vu. I have yet to hear a reasonable and logical explanation as to why a Warframe that channels a particular element should, by default, be immune to it. The only way that would possibly make any sense is if the Warframe was made entirely of the substance itself. Yet Volt is a lightning rod, not lighting itself, so there goes that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abbacephas Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 1 minute ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: The only way that would possibly make any sense is if the Warframe was made entirely of the substance itself. Yet Volt is a lightning rod, not lighting itself, so there goes that. I agree with you. Channeling Void Energy to generate a particular element does not grant immunity to that element's effect when used against a Warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Graysmog Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Just now, (PS4)abbacephas said: I agree with you. Channeling Void Energy to generate a particular element does not grant immunity to that element's effect when used against a Warframe. Thanks for agreeing man, but I honestly do wonder if there is any way to explain it without the argument devolving into "well it just makes sense to". Arctic Eximi aren't immune to slows, Fire Eximi can be burned, Energy Leech Eximi can have energy stolen from them, the list goes on. The fallacies are true for both sides of the spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abbacephas Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 1 minute ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: Thanks for agreeing man, but I honestly do wonder if there is any way to explain it without the argument devolving into "well it just makes sense to". Arctic Eximi aren't immune to slows, Fire Eximi can be burned, Energy Leech Eximi can have energy stolen from them, the list goes on. The fallacies are true for both sides of the spectrum. The only other analogy that comes to mind are the Jedi. They and the Sith both can use and manipulate the Force and yet neither side is immune to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Graysmog Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said: The only other analogy that comes to mind are the Jedi. They and the Sith both can use and manipulate the Force and yet neither side is immune to it. Yeah, but then you can explain that away with how our Powers work in general. We can choose to hurt what we want with our Powers, as we can turn people into Allies on the fly or not allow our abilities to affect another Warframe outside of Conclave, so I don't know if that can necessarily apply as well in this scenario. I would consider it to work the same with the Jedi and Sith, but I think if you use Force Push or Force Lighting on someone you don't want to hurt, it'll of course be less effective (or at least I'd imagine it'd be due to you putting less effort into it), yet it'd still hurt them in some way. It definitely is a fun topic to discuss though. Just for the sheer amount of head scratching it can cause, haha. Edited July 13, 2017 by (XB1)Graysmog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodofWiFi Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 31 minutes ago, Miser_able said: So I guess mesa should be immune to bullets 31 minutes ago, Miser_able said: Excalibur be immune to sword Those two things are not the same as fire, ice, toxin, electricity. You can't build up a resistant to being shot or stabbed. 31 minutes ago, Miser_able said: Volt should instant kill hydroid, Frost should freeze hydroid, Ember should melt Frost. People go from one extreme to the other I swear. Volt wouldn't kill Hydroid, Frost couldn't Hydroid and Ember could not melt Frost. 26 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: We just have to assume No we don't assume. 26 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: Also, you do know how anti-matter works, right? You do know we're in a video game right? You seem to be trying to do a switcheroo trying to bring real world logic just after you proposed a paragraph of nonsense. 28 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: He is not literally made of ice, try again Never said he was. I said he was the embodiment of cold. Does that translate to "he's made of ice". No. 30 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: It's just effectively immune to something at that low of a temperature And as far as I can tell, liquid nitrogen is very cold stuff. 31 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: I'm running with logic and reasoning. Bear in mind you say this after proposing that the reason why Grineer units aren't set on fire because the Operator has some god like power that allows them to control what flames can burn, which is basically like someone saying their gun doesn't kill friendly NPCs because they can control when bullets are lethal. 34 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: They obviously aren't a good baseline when they're not meant to make sense in the first place. Thats why I posted in the first place. To make a little sense. I proposed that frames dealing with cold heat toxin etc etc, should have an immunity to them on the grounds that the more you use something harmful, the more you build up a resistence to it. But apparently people can't seem to understand the difference between that and things that kill you instantly like bullets and swords. 36 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: Doesn't exist, huh? Never said it didn't exist. Also I still can't see anything in thise descriptions that says the Void Energy remains Void Energy when it gets absorbed by the Warframe, which we know it doesn't otherwise all Warframes would be using the Void Beam. 38 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: Also, what @Miser_able said. What he said is not very intelligent. He went to an extreme in an attempt to make a point, without considering the fact that you can't build up a resistance to bullets, swords or anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodofWiFi Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 29 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said: Déjà vu. I have yet to hear a reasonable and logical explanation as to why a Warframe that channels a particular element should, by default, be immune to it. Because exposure to the elements should make the more resistant to it. If they can resist their own powers they should be able to resist the element when it's outside of their control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodofWiFi Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 25 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: The only way that would possibly make any sense is if the Warframe was made entirely of the substance itself. Yet Volt is a lightning rod, not lighting itself, so there goes that. So in one statement you say that the only way someone could be truly resistant to cold, is if they are made of ice. And then you compare Volt to a lightning rod, which is supposed to absorb electricity and funnel it into the ground. Yet volt cannot do that and just takes it. So logically if he is on a metal surface of a Grineer Galleon, he should not be suffering any damage from an Arc at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abbacephas Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said: Because exposure to the elements should make the more resistant to it. If they can resist their own powers they should be able to resist the element when it's outside of their control. Why? They are no longer in control of that element. As such, they should be affected by it by virtue of the fact that they no longer possess control over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Graysmog Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Just now, TheGodofWiFi said: So in one statement you say that the only way someone could be truly resistant to cold, is if they are made of ice. And then you compare Volt to a lightning rod, which is supposed to absorb electricity and funnel it into the ground. Yet volt cannot do that and just takes it. So logically if he is on a metal surface of a Grineer Galleon, he should not be suffering any damage from an Arc at all. I said immune. Not resistant. Resistance and immunity are two completely different things. Lighting rods also channel electricity to a certain area, just like Volt with his abilities, so the comparison was apt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodofWiFi Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 Just now, (PS4)abbacephas said: Why? They are no longer in control of that element. As such, they should be affected by it by virtue of the fact that they no longer possess control over it. Thats what I'm saying. Why is it when Frost places ice patches on the ground, which then become part of the enviornment, he does not get slowed down? How can Saryn posses toxins inside her, yet be affect by toxin procs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miser_able Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said: What he said is not very intelligent. He went to an extreme in an attempt to make a point, without considering the fact that you can't build up a resistance to bullets, swords or anything like that. First off, rude. Second, last time I checked you can't build up a resident to being set on fire, electric currents, or being frozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodofWiFi Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: I said immune. Not resistant. Oh sorry, my mistake. Still wrong though. You don't have to be made out of something to be immune to it. People who practice mithridatism aren't made out of snake venom but can become completely immune to it through controlled dosage. 9 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: Lighting rods also channel electricity to a certain area, just like Volt with his abilities, so the comparison was apt Yes but brought up another logical fallacy in the fact he should be completely immune to arcs when standing on any metal surface, instead channeling the electricity into enemies. In fact that's not a bad idea for a new passive. Edited July 13, 2017 by TheGodofWiFi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miser_able Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said: How can Saryn posses toxins inside her, yet be affect by toxin procs? Not all toxins are the same. Poisonous animals can be effected by other types of toxins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodofWiFi Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Miser_able said: First off, rude. Second, last time I checked you can't build up a resident to being set on fire, electric currents, or being frozen. If you wield fire and can create it from your body, you obviously should have an immunity to it. For else how would even be able to wield such power in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodofWiFi Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Miser_able said: Not all toxins are the same. Poisonous animals can be effected by other types of toxins. You got my point. All the toxins in Warframe are the same. Unless of course you have a list showing that the toxin Saryn has is not the same as a toxic eximus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Graysmog Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said: Oh sorry, my mistake. Still wrong though. You don't have to be made out of something to be immune to it. People who practice mithridatism aren't made out of snake venom but can become completely immune to it through controlled dosage. Yes but brought up another logical fallacy in the fact he should be completely immune to arcs when standing on any metal surface. That's a person's immune system. Not a piece of biomechanical Orokin machinery that's more akin to a suit than an actual person. Such a statement doesn't apply when we're talking about heat and cold, something completely different from one's cells being able to combat a virus. We're talking about material resistance, not biological resistance. That's now how a lightning rod works. It's not immune to electricity at all, it just reroutes it to another location. If it was completely immune to electricity it wouldn't be able to transfer it at all because it has no conductivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Graysmog Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said: You got my point. All the toxins in Warframe are the same. Unless of course you have a list showing that the toxin Saryn has is not the same as a toxic eximus. They obviously aren't, though. There's the Toxin Injectors on Earth, Grineer Toxin for Tyl Regor's Lab, I mean, for crying out loud, not all toxins can possibly be the same when we have different Antitoxins at our disposal. Now you're just being facetious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Graysmog Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said: If you wield fire and can create it from your body, you obviously should have an immunity to it. For else how would even be able to wield such power in the first place? You're trying to compare a regular human being to a Warframe, a living biomechanical shell meant to specifically channel these kinds of abilities and use them effectively without harming themselves in the process. I can't be the only one seeing the problem here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodofWiFi Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: That's a person's immune system. Not a piece of biomechanical Orokin machinery that's more akin to a suit than an actual person. So now you're telling me what the Warframes are now? Notice the very important word there "Bio". 3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: Such a statement doesn't apply when we're talking about heat and cold It does when you can shoot fire out of your hands but apparently don't have an immunity to it. 4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: We're talking about material resistance, not biological resistance. We're talking about both. 4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: That's now how a lightning rod works. It's not immune to electricity at all, it just reroutes it to another location. And you'll notice that I ammended my comment to reflect that by saying it would be an interesting passive if Volt were to reroute an arcs energy into any Grineer standing on a metal surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodofWiFi Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: They obviously aren't, though. Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Graysmog Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Just now, TheGodofWiFi said: Source? http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Antitoxin_(Gear) Multiple Antitoxins, multiple Toxins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodofWiFi Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 1 minute ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: Warframe, a living biomechanical shell meant to specifically channel these kinds of abilities and use them effectively without harming themselves in the process. Again you're now trying to say what a Warframe can and cannot do when we know nothing in the regard. So if a Warframe is designed to handle these abilities without causing harm to themselves, is it not logical to assume that they should therefore be immune to elements they wield even if not created by them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodofWiFi Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Antitoxin_(Gear) Multiple Antitoxins, multiple Toxins. Or multiple solutions to a single toxin strain with different strengths. For I cannot see any sort of labels saying "This is for the toxin produced by Ancients". Or "this is the antitoxin for when you step in a puddle on a Grineer Shipyard." Edited July 13, 2017 by TheGodofWiFi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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