Solo Is Now Dull , And Not Rewarding Enough . Get A Squad For A Far More Easy Game.

[InFlames]

How do we know this is U8? And what point were you making?  That you had to wait on some low hitting loser, and both you guys waited out the respawn timer?

 

Because of the background the planet system was like that in U8. 

My point is that most of you need to choose better your gear instead of complaining about pretty much everything. Not satisfied ? Leave, we don't care.

We did not wait on the respawn timer hence we were playing a mobile defense mission. Was pretty much melee all the way with Rhino.

Open your friggin eyes before you call BS on sum1.

[magusat999]

I'm not going to quote what the OP said, but in spirit I have to agree with him. I'm in my second month of playing - I guess I'd be a semi-noob. I have been very stingy with purchases, I don't feel right purchasing things I can find in the game (besides login rewards). So I play through and grind to get what I need. Previous to U9, there was a logic to the Warframe world, which doesn't exist now. The planets closer to the sun had the easiest difficulty, and the difficulty increased as you go farther out. it made sense, ad was rewarding in that you could go back as a powerful Frame and farm with little difficulty, or you can CHOOSE a challenge and go for the outer planets.With the difficulty levels ramped up EVERYWHERE there is no logic anymore. With Nightmare mode being a no-choice option the game can get irritating.

 

We have to remember that just because we have played for a length of time, that doesn't mean our Frames are always high-level. A player may be bringing his Frame back up after a Forma, same goes for weapons. Having the game ramped up in difficulty across the board is a ds-service to players. Even with an OP Frame - the point of leaving the difficulty alone is being able to demolish weak enemies is a reward for your efforts to get to that level of power. Now there is no gratification for grinding your Frame to a more powerful state.

 

I think DE could have expanded the game to make more difficult areas, instead of breaking our recognition of how things were. The Universe is vast - why not expand out to other solar systems instead of making Mercury harder (for instance)? Some of those added / altered levels could be somewhere else, and they could keep the logic people were used to. I prefer a game that makes sense.

 

I have a few weapons that are pretty much maxed out. In U8, I have gone through a good number of T1 and T2 missions with little difficulty. After U9, soloing T2 is a test of survival - even T1 was tough to get through, much tougher that U8.I've done 2 solo T2 missions and they take me about 1 1/2 hours to complete. Previously I could do a T2 in 30 minutes or less - and that's because of exploring, not the insane difficulty of the enemies defenses. I can't used my maxed / potatoed / forma'ed Gorgon in T2 - it's useless now, I have to take a Snipetron Vandal. Its not fun being forced to choose a specific weapon - especially after all that time building the other one up and using it previously in the same, albeit less difficult areas.

 

There IS a s Solo mode, btw, for those of you that keep saying it is a co-op game. If a developer puts in a certain mode, then playing it should be optimized for that mode. It's lazy design to just slap the word "Solo" on the same challenge parameters as any other (and vice versa). Solo mode should be tweaked so that the Solo player can play a fair, balanced game suited to a solo player. What DE can do to counter-balance is change the rewards (well actually the drawback could be less drops and experience because of less action). I also agree that people should be able to choose a higher level of difficulty in Solo if they want to.

 

Scaling up a co-op mission just because there is a higher level Frame in there is just dumb. So what a person can one-shot Vor? They grinded hundreds of hours so they deserve to have that power. Don't take away our advantage just because we are higher level! Higher level people were dropping down to lower levels to farm - remember the other challenge - actually getting the thing you want to drop??? I still don't have Frost Prime BP, Latron Prime receiver, Reaper Prime Blade and enough Orkin cells - and I don't play "casually" - I've been grinding these from the first time I learned of the Void missions. That's a challenge right there - and now I have to dump a whole rile of ammo in a grunt Grineer on top of that? Lets get serious, DE.

 

Some of the charm of the game is gone. I was complaining in another thread about my Scindo not being strong enough - I thought it was my setup, now I find out it's by design. Infected is supposed to be a massive flow of creatures meeting swift death by blades like the Scindo or the Orthos. It was fun to tear through them as the "Charge" at you. Now even a fully maxed Scindo takes several attacks to take down one charger. The dynamic has drastically changed and it isn't fun to be standing there chopping away at one Charger - what happened to tearing through waves of infected? I'm forced to use Rhino's Stomp or Nova's Molecular Prime to "prep" the horde - something I rarely ever had to do in U8 (well I didn't have Nova in U8, but you get what I mean). This means the action has changed, and not for the best. I want things the way I began the game - my Excalibur got his Dual Ethers and tore through enemies. That was the reward for making that effort. That was fun. standing there hitting one enemy all day is NOT fun.

 

The game should have a way for all Frames to succeed. I shouldn't have to get Rhino or Frost Prime in order to "get through" the game easier. There should be solutions for any Frame. Some Frames may require an elusive mod to make them batter. Others may need to rely on stealth - but there should not be a Frame that "can't make it". In the case of Rhino, for example - his Stomp has not lasting effect like Frost's sheild for example. That means he has to beat everything up - that's his way. But on the other hand Rhino has a harder time with defense mission because he has no lasting AOE power (I heard he used to?). I'm not going to explain how he can succeed, because I think DE messed up there - he cannot succeed (in Solo) because he has nothing to stop the waves from pressing forward. Now if he had un-nerfed weapons it's possible he could stomp and take out the monsters before they come out of stasis - but with the combination of Ancients that take thirty chops, invulnerability to damage while floating in Rhino's Stomp and being all armored or shielded up this is not possible with U9. It almost makes his Stomp useless. There should be a way for Rhino, and all other Frames to win in this game, and with U9, there just isn't.

 

Lastly, it's not about a player being able to handle what's thrown at him. Its about the game making sense. If I am in Mercury, I shouldn't struggle for life with a level 30 character - boss included. Neither should a party suffer because I am there with my higher level Frame. If I hit a level 20 enemy with a level 25 weapon, it shouldn't take 25 swings, or a full clip of bullets to take him out. The game engine should be intelligent enough to calculate my level, and resources to come up with an appropriate and fair challenge. A player should be able to choose their level of battle and to expect higher or lower difficulty depending on area. Oh and let me add, some people like to take their time and explore - why not make it so that if I want to hang back after the mission is over I can choose to do so? Something needs to be done so people who like to explore aren't being dragged to the extraction point at the end of missions! As soon as one of the squad steps on the extraction platform, that stupid timer starts and all the exploring is over (that's one of the drawbacks of co-op mode). I think they (DE) can come up with a solution thats more gratifying than the current one.

[JustDont]

Lastly, it's not about a player being able to handle what's thrown at him. Its about the game making sense. If I am in Mercury, I shouldn't struggle for life with a level 30 character - boss included. Neither should a party suffer because I am there with my higher level Frame. If I hit a level 20 enemy with a level 25 weapon, it shouldn't take 25 swings, or a full clip of bullets to take him out. The game engine should be intelligent enough to calculate my level, and resources to come up with an appropriate and fair challenge. A player should be able to choose their level of battle and to expect higher or lower difficulty depending on area. Oh and let me add, some people like to take their time and explore - why not make it so that if I want to hang back after the mission is over I can choose to do so? Something needs to be done so people who like to explore aren't being dragged to the extraction point at the end of missions! As soon as one of the squad steps on the extraction platform, that stupid timer starts and all the exploring is over (that's one of the drawbacks of co-op mode). I think they (DE) can come up with a solution thats more gratifying than the current one.

You last paragraph just shows how much of your wall of text is hilariously wrong.

If you're in Mercury, you won't struggle with lvl 30 character. Unless you're pacifist and refuse to attack anyone.

If you're hitting lvl 20 enemy with a lvl 25 weapon, that enemy will die very fast. At least if you're actually USING your item level capacity, because "just levels" don't mean anything in Warframe, it's mods that matter.

 

Oh, and about the rest of this paragraph -- it's absolutely pointless to try and make a game for everyone. It's even pointless to try and make a game with enough options to please everyone, because just the raw amount of work will be incredibly huge. So arguments "some people like X, so lets add X!" are pointless.

 

PS: The rest of your wall of text have similarly wrong content. "Rhino useless in defense", "No logic in difficulty", "Low-level frames are limited to low-level planets", "Some frames can't make through the game", etc. I don't even feel like commenting each of those points. Because, frankly, the best argument for each of those points would be "have you actually tried to play the game?".

[LazyKnight]

Can it be agreed at least that normal maps have tolerable spawn rates but defense mission are boarding on ridicules?  My biggest gripe with the system is wave density per spawn interval, not total wave size.  You can have truly massive waves of NPC come at even a low level player with bad gear if the speed of creating new NPC per interval is correct.

 

Edited July 21, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Azraill]

The game should have a way for all Frames to succeed. I shouldn't have to get Rhino or Frost Prime in order to "get through" the game easier.  

 

 

I'm not going to remark on the Defense aspect, most anyone would agree solo defense is next-to-impossible at least late game Solo due to the sliver of health the cryopod has: if your not using Frost, Vauban, Nyx (Pro-only : Volt and Map/enemy based only : Ember) 

 

But on this particular bit.. Any frame, with Redirection and Fast Deflection : and a single good, leveled weapon can survive any mission solo that is NOT defense, and excluding Tier III (Though even that may be possible, depends on frame, mods, and weapon set.) but even if you want to argue that (which I wouldn't.. my level 4 Volt just went on a spree across the highest level planets including all races, from rescues to sabotages to exterminates and it just took being careful not to get caught off guard. Also solo'd Io and Xini to wave 5 without hassle but that's no shock really since it's pretty much a snooze fest with good weapons through those waves.) It's simply that certain frames are more geared toward solo. I can't deny that, each frame has it's purpose I've said it repeatedly.

 

+1 Ash is best placed in the hands of a stealth player, but he has Smoke bomb to get him out of trouble and repositioned, great for solo artists but requires knowing the right mods for your weapon sets as his skills will best be used surviving, not using up most your energy on the ult unless in a dire situation.

 

+1 Loki is a support frame best placed in the hands of the tactical but can also stealth, just not nearly as well as Ash. Still he is supposed renoun for being able to solo due to his decoy regardless (Stealth- due to Shade issues.)

 

+0 Trinity is a pure support frame, the fact she can do more is grand: but it's all she's suppose to be. Can't personally attest to her abilities solo.

 

+1 Ember is a sheer dps dealer, she can handle solo well, but she's very one sided in what she's capable of: if the damage doesn't win it out for he, her weapons better.

 

+1 Volt is a jack of all trades, if his weapons fail, his ult might wipe a room, if he gets cornered, shields in both direction can save him, if he gets overwhelmed, speed might get him out. A true solo expert, for quick-reflexes anyway.

 

+1 Frost is a easy solo master, with proper mods gearing for recasting Snow Globe anyway.

 

+0/1 Sayrn : Due to molt, she is much like Loki though I cannot personally comment as I have yet to build her. So she doesn't get a point here, but I'm sure people do it.

 

+0/1 Vauban I can't speak on, don't have him, don't care to know really. The frame never interested me. ;3

 

+1 Nyx is an amazing frame, I've got a bit before she's done building but based on what I know she should be a great frame for soloing due to her abilities to turn her enemies against each other and stands out to me as the best Solo female frame.

 

+1 Rhino ... he's just a tough SOB, yeah he can solo. 

 

+1 Banshee .. much like Ember she can deal massive damage with skilled aim and her Ult: it's all up to the player how well she does, but is actually quite good solo with proper use.

 

Still doesn't look like your cornered into two frames... given all of these work well, some better than others sure: Frost being 'required' I would have to say is just due to the player being careless and playing superhero in Solo, and I say that as the owner of Excalibur - Frost - Ash - Volt - and Nyx .. all have worked wonderfully solo, cept Nyx, I'll know more on that in in a couple days. But forsee no issues. In the end, all frames get around 800+ shields with full redirection, if you take the maps slow you shouldn't die: ever. If your just running out guns blazing at the pace of being with a team - yeah, your going to die.

 

Edited July 21, 2013 by Azraill

[magusat999]

You last paragraph just shows how much of your wall of text is hilariously wrong.

If you're in Mercury, you won't struggle with lvl 30 character. Unless you're pacifist and refuse to attack anyone.

If you're hitting lvl 20 enemy with a lvl 25 weapon, that enemy will die very fast. At least if you're actually USING your item level capacity, because "just levels" don't mean anything in Warframe, it's mods that matter.

 

Oh, and about the rest of this paragraph -- it's absolutely pointless to try and make a game for everyone. It's even pointless to try and make a game with enough options to please everyone, because just the raw amount of work will be incredibly huge. So arguments "some people like X, so lets add X!" are pointless.

 

PS: The rest of your wall of text have similarly wrong content. "Rhino useless in defense", "No logic in difficulty", "Low-level frames are limited to low-level planets", "Some frames can't make through the game", etc. I don't even feel like commenting each of those points. Because, frankly, the best argument for each of those points would be "have you actually tried to play the game?".

For one thing, you disqualified yourself from making any reasonable sense when you used the term "wall of text". that tells me your to lazy to read and sounds like there may be some comprehension issues. i'm not saying you HAVE comprehension issues - just that it sounds like it. Obviously you didn't read my "wall of text" (did you notice the OP has a "wall of text" too?) so you can't possibly make a decision on what was said.

 

YOU and others writing like you, love to come in and tell others that they are wrong based on your "theories". I write what I write based on my EXPERIENCE. Whatever you say is not going to change what I have experienced, and what anybody else has either. Just because the Wiki says the things you wrote about doesn't mean that's how things are in practice; it certainly doesn't mean that's the way it is for everybody.

 

No the game can't be made for everybody - but that doesn't mean it should be made explicitly to please YOU either. your little smug, elitist statement underlines the fact that you are coming from the "I like difficulty - I don't care what makes it difficult, even if its a broken game" camp - which BTW is not the majority of players out there. I left room for you in my "wall of text" with suggesting scaling (as have others) so I don't know why you are moaning about what I said - oh, yeah, you were too lazy to read it.

 

If your going to answer someone's reply, and $#*(@ about how long it is, at least consider this: how many posts DID you read before replying? I read EVERY ONE. if you were too shiftless to read mine before commenting on it, the you could have no possibly read the rest of the posts, because that one gigantic wall of text there, isn't it? And people complaining about walls of text is so late 80's, dude - get over it and either respond with an intelligent reply or just remain silent. RIF. Your stupid quip is not going to change anybody from writing "walls of text" (especially in a BETA REPORTING FORUM, duh....

 

NOT TO MENTION - Your reply is uninformed and lacks any converse proof. just because you say so doesn't mean that's the fact. unless the just patched Mercury- why don't you go fight Vor and tell me what level he is?

Edited July 21, 2013 by magusat999

[Azraill]

-snip-

 

Soooo is my post up next or .. 

Well...

 

You know, it just felt so left out. That's all ;3 

 

Anyway! Who's up for some muffins? They lighten the mood right? .. right? Helloooo.. oo..oo..ooooo...

 

Guess everyone fled the burning building.. ah well.. more muffins for me. 

[magusat999]

 

 

 

I'm not going to remark on the Defense aspect, most anyone would agree solo defense is next-to-impossible at least late game Solo due to the sliver of health the cryopod has: if your not using Frost, Vauban, Nyx (Pro-only : Volt and Map/enemy based only : Ember) 

 

But on this particular bit.. Any frame, with Redirection and Fast Deflection : and a single good, leveled weapon can survive any mission solo that is NOT defense, and excluding Tier III (Though even that may be possible, depends on frame, mods, and weapon set.) but even if you want to argue that (which I wouldn't.. my level 4 Volt just went on a spree across the highest level planets including all races, from rescues to sabotages to exterminates and it just took being careful not to get caught off guard. Also solo'd Io and Xini to wave 5 without hassle but that's no shock really since it's pretty much a snooze fest with good weapons through those waves.) It's simply that certain frames are more geared toward solo. I can't deny that, each frame has it's purpose I've said it repeatedly.

 

+1 Ash is best placed in the hands of a stealth player, but he has Smoke bomb to get him out of trouble and repositioned, great for solo artists but requires knowing the right mods for your weapon sets as his skills will best be used surviving, not using up most your energy on the ult unless in a dire situation.

 

+1 Loki is a support frame best placed in the hands of the tactical but can also stealth, just not nearly as well as Ash. Still he is supposed renoun for being able to solo due to his decoy regardless (Stealth- due to Shade issues.)

 

+0 Trinity is a pure support frame, the fact she can do more is grand: but it's all she's suppose to be. Can't personally attest to her abilities solo.

 

+1 Ember is a sheer dps dealer, she can handle solo well, but she's very one sided in what she's capable of: if the damage doesn't win it out for he, her weapons better.

 

+1 Volt is a jack of all trades, if his weapons fail, his ult might wipe a room, if he gets cornered, shields in both direction can save him, if he gets overwhelmed, speed might get him out. A true solo expert, for quick-reflexes anyway.

 

+1 Frost is a easy solo master, with proper mods gearing for recasting Snow Globe anyway.

 

+0/1 Sayrn : Due to molt, she is much like Loki though I cannot personally comment as I have yet to build her. So she doesn't get a point here, but I'm sure people do it.

 

+0/1 Vauban I can't speak on, don't have him, don't care to know really. The frame never interested me. ;3

 

+1 Nyx is an amazing frame, I've got a bit before she's done building but based on what I know she should be a great frame for soloing due to her abilities to turn her enemies against each other and stands out to me as the best Solo female frame.

 

+1 Rhino ... he's just a tough SOB, yeah he can solo. 

 

+1 Banshee .. much like Ember she can deal massive damage with skilled aim and her Ult: it's all up to the player how well she does, but is actually quite good solo with proper use.

 

Still doesn't look like your cornered into two frames... given all of these work well, some better than others sure: Frost being 'required' I would have to say is just due to the player being careless and playing superhero in Solo, and I say that as the owner of Excalibur - Frost - Ash - Volt - and Nyx .. all have worked wonderfully solo, cept Nyx, I'll know more on that in in a couple days. But forsee no issues. In the end, all frames get around 800+ shields with full redirection, if you take the maps slow you shouldn't die: ever. If your just running out guns blazing at the pace of being with a team - yeah, your going to die.

 

 

I wasn't specifying Rhino or Frost as the only ones to be able to "make it", those were just examples. Actually I've had trouble with Rhino in the (new) T2 missions - those enemies are much tougher than U8. but that point was simply that a player shouldn't find out the Frame he / she chose is a dud that can't win. Any Frame should have a way to win,o one way or the other.

[Azraill]

I wasn't specifying Rhino or Frost as the only ones to be able to "make it", those were just examples. Actually I've had trouble with Rhino in the (new) T2 missions - those enemies are much tougher than U8. but that point was simply that a player shouldn't find out the Frame he / she chose is a dud that can't win. Any Frame should have a way to win,o one way or the other.

 

 

Soloing any mission is almost nothing about the frame: save for Defense & Tier III

 

Volt at level 6 can solo Tier 2 : Any frame can solo it. Though not at that level, heres why: Volt manages because he can toss a shield up, and gun with a level 30 weapon: Frost can because he can do the same thing. Vauban can win because he can do similar. Loki & Saryn (might) could because of their decoys.

 

The rest of the frames require level 30 with high level redirection and fast deflection mods but then they can solo it, no matter what warframe you pick. Provided you don't go in suicidal running you (should) be fine. That's not me being elitist, just being honest. Defense missions need the cryopod to have more health, and low level missions may need scaling back, but the rest feels well balanced and yes the high end 30+ missions are suggested to have catalysts / formas : but they are also hinted at that by the dev's to by the level 30 cap and as it starts rising past level 30's into the 40-60 ranges you need that catalyst to match the levels: and preferably be a few over the levels at least with mods befitting the goal. 

 

So it is a challenge, but it shouldn't be one that needs changing and I say this from the standpoint of being in the process of leveling two different frames purely solo. It is tougher, requiring a bit more planning / situational awareness but it feels well balanced.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Azraill

[RazorTip]

why don't you go fight Vor and tell me what level he is?

Of course he'll fight Vor....with a fully leveled 'frame with potatoes/mods/sentinels to make it look "easy". 

 

Soooo is my post up next or .. 

Well...

 

You know, it just felt so left out. That's all ;3 

 

Anyway! Who's up for some muffins? They lighten the mood right? .. right? Helloooo.. oo..oo..ooooo...

 

Guess everyone fled the burning building.. ah well.. more muffins for me. 

 

 

Gimme one of those, I happen to like toasty muffins with burned crisps.

 

 

...they don't have raisins in them, do they?

Edited July 21, 2013 by RazorTip

[Azraill]

Of course he'll fight Vor....with a fully leveled 'frame with potatoes/mods/sentinels to make it look "easy". 

Don't know who this quote is to, but um.. sure.. how would you like me to fight Vor? I'll record it if fraps allows me.

 

Are we talking buy a lvl 1 Braton + pistol + skana and roll in with my brand new Nyx in .. 9 hours. 

 

Note: I'm also the same person who says the low level stuff may need scaling back, and that defense pods need more health so that in solo they can take 'some' beating without going poof. But still, happy to test things out.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Azraill

[JustDont]

NOT TO MENTION - Your reply is uninformed and lacks any converse proof. just because you say so doesn't mean that's the fact. unless the just patched Mercury- why don't you go fight Vor and tell me what level he is?

Excuse me for not quoting your (again, please feel free to be offended if you wish) entire wall of text.

 

But I'll still address your points.

1) I hope you DO understand that about EVERYONE here in forums speaking from his own experience (all while some "offended" people prefer to downplay others' arguments as "theorycrafting") . Surprise, our experiences may actually not match, because we play the game differently.

 

2) A lengthy and pointless post can't be called anything else than "wall of text". Granted, your post of course wasn't entirely pointless, but the ratio of factual arguments to "I-feel-it's-wrong-now" complaints was not good.

 

3) On the quoted part. So, you didn't even play the game after they hotpatched Vor? "Speaking from experience", indeed.

 

4) Again on the quoted part. Your post doesn't contain any proof and/or facts, so why do you feel entitled to receive proof as a counterargument?

[Troublechutor]

After 20 pages I'm late to this party, but I'll share this observation I had before I abandoned ship (waiting on Update 10).

 

Solo as loki works like this.

 

No invisibility = death.

Invisibility = coma.

 

If you are running missions rated AT your level, Loki will die in one hit from most heavies unless running full defensive mod (boring, I'm not going to shoot it out with guys at this level anyway, and it's not fitting for loki anyway, if you want a combat frame, play ANYTHING but a loki.)  So if you are playing race-car parkour loki, you're just one sneaky heavy-gunner-slam from death at all times.  Seriously a major challenge and it does force you to think carefully about how you progress on a level. 
 

BUT!

 

If you just pop invisibility (and make sure you leave your sentinel at home, they don't mix well with loki...) you are invulnerable and you can lazily murder everything in sight.

 

The only limiting factor to this play style is the number of blue orbs that mobs drop as you kill them and/or the power efficiency of your loki (energy siphon is a must now, which I hate)
 

BUT BUT!

 

If you try to solo defense, you are screwed.  Decoys don't have any staying power and about half the mobs will ignore any decoy not placed in open terrain.  You can delay a mob for a few seconds, but where this works best is in ANYTHING BUT DEFENSE.  Defense solo requires you to rapidly kill everything in a 360 degree sphere around the target while managing aggro, which you can't do because decoys drop too fast and dropping aggro with invis will get the target killed in mere seconds while you wildly flail and spam at the hoard. 

 

Solo play is screwed up.  Its that simple.  Solo-defense needs to have some kind of mechanic that allows the player to manage aggro or mitigate damage to the target.  At the very least, the regen rate of the target MUST be tied to the number of players in the mission... and should get a seriously strong buff between waves (if not a full heal).

 

Solo rescue needs to be reworked somehow.  The AI pathing on the hostage isn't very good, its fragile, it doesn't defend itself, and it doesn't have a full suite of movement mechanics to allow it to keep up with a swift/agile player. 

 

[suggestion] If the player puts down a way-point, the hostage will teleport to that location if it can not successfully path to it within a set time frame.  Not everyone can switch teleport idiot hostages around the map.  Also, when a way point goes down, the hostage should NOT MOVE from that spot until instructed to do so.  This would allow the player to clear a room of major dangers like toxics or deal with a wave-rush without having to worry about the idiot hostage jumping into a napalm death trap.  This would be a temporary fix until you can fix what ever is wrong with those idiots.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Troublechutor

[Mjr_116]

It isn't a matter of casual versus "hardcore" it is quality over quantity

 

What the OP is trying to get to is that there needs to be better enemies instead of simply more enemies.

 

Instead of having a bunch of enemies rushing right into your bullets, have enemies that can properly use some semblance of tactics on the battlefield.

 

Enemies that will stay in cover while being fired upon while their allies move out of your sight to attack.

 

Heavy units that push forward only when the lighter units are firing on Tenno positions so they aren't cut down in the open easily.

 

Commanders that are an encounter changing force on the battlefield, able to change the squads tactics to gain a better position.

 

Snipers that fire and displace so it isn't as easy to find them.

 

The Grineer are a military force to be reckoned with, maybe they should fight like one.

 

The robots of the Corpus should behave better than "run into the open and fire gleefully at the enemy until killed"'

 

I'd rather have the challenge of out thinking and out maneuvering a few enemies instead of the difficulty of laboring through murdering hundreds of brainless ones.

 

Again, its not a matter of difficulty its a matter of how that difficulty is achieved

Edited July 21, 2013 by MjrPackage

[JustDont]

It isn't a matter of casual versus "hardcore" it is quality over quantity

 

What the OP is trying to get to is that there needs to be better enemies instead of simply more enemies.

 

Instead of having a bunch of enemies rushing right into your bullets, have enemies that can properly use some semblance of tactics on the battlefield.

That's all nice and dandy, but --

 

Are you SERIOUSLY expecting for DE to somehow make a shooter bot AI better than all the existing shooter bot AIs in the world??

There's a reason no one managed to successfully repeat F.E.A.R's fresh approach to AI.

Because it's hard to make. Like, really really hard.

[Mjr_116]

That's all nice and dandy, but --

 

Are you SERIOUSLY expecting for DE to somehow make a shooter bot AI better than all the existing shooter bot AIs in the world??

There's a reason no one managed to successfully repeat F.E.A.R's fresh approach to AI.

Because it's hard to make. Like, really really hard.

Not for tomorrow no, and there is no expectations I'm not entitled to anything. However, a game that is always in development could be the perfect place to implement it. It's easier to give up and say that it's broken and the Dev's are entirely too stupid to pull it off instead of hoping for something better, but this is a feedback forum so my ideas and hopes stand.

[LazyKnight]

That's all nice and dandy, but --

 

Are you SERIOUSLY expecting for DE to somehow make a shooter bot AI better than all the existing shooter bot AIs in the world??

There's a reason no one managed to successfully repeat F.E.A.R's fresh approach to AI.

Because it's hard to make. Like, really really hard.

The infested realy need a better AI they are dumb as bricks, I know that is intended with lore and all but they are basically zombies. Corpus are in the same camp as the infested with those MOA that are basically fire and forget missiles that have no desire or care for self preservation. I am not asking for the NPC to do tricks or anything dealing with complex stagey, all I am asking is make them at least try to stay alive if injured.

 

Grineer get at least a passing grade, I have seen games with far worse standard NPC tactics.  

Edited July 21, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Psychotoxin]

i soloed Tyl today... with my nyx... god it was horrible... good that i had my glaive, but that didn`t save me from the butt-raping, oh no... no ammo, the sentinel just `sploded, and 4 grineer heavies come in. mind control 1 (not enough energy for chaos, and chaos isn`t an insta-win button, since guys closer to you, have a chance of attacking you), but behind the heavies, was a S#&$-tonne of mooks. like 20-30 of those elite grineer...

and that was before i got to tyl. once i reached him, had to masterfully dodge him, while standing atop a box, and glaive him as soon as possible. somehow managed to kill, him (he dropped nothing of value: - Polymer bundle- and -Pressure Point-) and as soon as he died the room was swarmed again... and let the butt-raping commence again.

anyways, i failed the mission, sat back, and though about stuff...

Fake difficulty was the first thing coming to mind. having waves of mooks, that are too damn healthy/shielded is not fun... mix in some elite mooks, and the fun moves even further away from this. and mods that really are just straight upgrades, without really thinking? got a new gun? level it up and PUT EVERYTHING ON THAT SUCKA`! yeah... fun just went to a new continent...

what DE could do - as OP said: tactical squads (2 ballistas switch-covering a group of 2 grineer lancers, 2 grineer troopers and an elite lancer, with maybe a gunner staying back, to intervene if S#&$ goes fan-wards for the grineer) this would be awesome because; a) smarter AI (actual tactics) b) a group that is hard to deal with, but it isn`t impossible c) if you`re in a squad, you can call roles for each member (me with nyx taking control of the heavy gunner, or the elite lancer, while a friendly frame either takes out the snipers, or focuses on the common mooks)

^ this would be difficult (and of course it should be ramped up for groups, since 7-8 guys aren`t that much of a challenge to a well-coordinated group, unless they`re 7 heavies/bombards/napalms)

weapons should be balanced - some nerfed, and some buffed, but not by a lot, since a lot of the guns are pretty fine (and i kinda like stressing out, while reloading my snipetron on a mid-level mission. will i make it, and be able to take out these guys, or should i rather relocate, while i reload)

enemies shouldn`t be as healthy, but shouldn`t be made of cotton candy and snot as well. buff/nerf needed here as well.

and there were some talks about elemental mods being more utility, than damage. that would add to the difficulty if done properly (hmm, should i go for a fire mod, that could spread to a group of enemies, damaging them with a dot. or should i put a freeze mod, that`d snap-freeze a single guy...? decisions, decisions...)


anyway, warframe has to grow from Fake difficulty, to a real difficulty. i see that some people are deterred by it now, and i too don`t feel as inclined to play it lately, i mostly come back, just for the awesome people in my clan. and while i love it, and want to see it grow, i don`t want it to become something that could be described with:

"HURR! ME HARDCOR GAMR! THIS HARDCOR GAME! NUBS GO HOME TO YUR CASUAL GAME! MANY ENEMYS BAD ONLY FOR WEAK NUBS! HARDCORE GAMR LOVE WHEN GAME UNFAIR AND DISBALANCED!" (that actually is what you "hardcore" gamers sound like)

remember that a hardcore game requires you to master it, not just be good at grinding. for now, warframe is more grind-tastic, than a challenge to master. Dark souls was a very good comparison in this case, since it beats you up, but extends a hand and says: "c`mon! one more time. you`ll do better this time!" while Warframe currently beats you down and yells: "Yeah! That`s right! Just try and come at me, bro! Just you try it!"

my two cents are out...

[InFlames]

still no one cares.

[LazyKnight]

still no one cares.

You not caring doesn't mean no ones cares. Self centered much?

[InFlames]

You not caring doesn't mean no ones cares. Self centered much?

butthurt much? .-.

why are you attacking me? no one cares with this because the system is just fine as it is. Don't try to mess up whats fine.

[Nagisawa]

butthurt much? .-.

why are you attacking me? no one cares with this because the system is just fine as it is. Don't try to mess up whats fine.

Would help if A) You'd stop making your opinions into incorrect 'facts'.  B) Be less defensive and hostile to people who don't have your personal experience.  C) Actually be open minded about this.

 

But obviously, you've closed your mind because....  Actually, I have no idea why.  There are about 20 pages of this, with SEVERAL people claiming they're having issues, more than people saying 'it's ok', and yet...  You're obviously not seeing any of it.  Something wrong with your monitor perhaps?  Clicking too fast on the next button?  I don't know.

[Relkin]

Just solo'd mercury and earth starting with a lvl 1 mag, lvl 1 latron prime, lvl 1 skana prime, and lvl 1 lato prime.  Took a bit of time but I can't say it was especially grueling man.  In your OP you rail against your definition of "hardcore" players (apparently if you have a max level frame you become hardcore lulz) and imply that wanting difficult content bc your max lvl frame can steamroll everything seems, well weird. 

 

Relying SOLELY on +dmg +hp +quantity of mobs isn't an acceptable means to raise difficulty sure, I can get behind that.  I would also like to hear peoples alternatives (rarely has anybody offered any unfortunately).  

 

I think scaling difficulty down for lower end missions is a no brainer and increasing rare drops outside of mods at higher end difficulty (not just % to drop anything, but % to get rarer loot as well which currently they do not do)  should of course be done. I'm on the fence regarding scaling difficulty down by number of players though tbh.  Yes solo play is an option and I understand that but this is primarily a MP game, when I play solo its generally bc either my friends aren't on or because I want to stealth play/need a challenge.  

 

So I do agree with some of your points but not all, I also can't say I'm a huge fan of the demanding/arrogant tone of the OP looking down on a large swath of the player base. 

[InFlames]

Would help if A) You'd stop making your opinions into incorrect 'facts'.  B) Be less defensive and hostile to people who don't have your personal experience.  C) Actually be open minded about this.

 

But obviously, you've closed your mind because....  Actually, I have no idea why.  There are about 20 pages of this, with SEVERAL people claiming they're having issues, more than people saying 'it's ok', and yet...  You're obviously not seeing any of it.  Something wrong with your monitor perhaps?  Clicking too fast on the next button?  I don't know.

 

I don't really care what others think.

[LazyKnight]

butthurt much? .-.

why are you attacking me? no one cares with this because the system is just fine as it is. Don't try to mess up whats fine.

I have been farming  Ceres, nuovo nightmare solo for the last 6 hours with out any decent drops failing to getting blaze, doesn't help your making trolling post.

 

The game need REAL challenge and it needs to be scaled appropriately, that is why do I not paly in parties often it actual makes the game have some risk and requires more skill than just hitting the 4 key when solo. The game is so easy that in parties I have no motivation whatsoever to play past one mission and nearly everyone is running XIN against the dumbest faction in game.

 

The game needs serious work and I am sick of the entire point of the game just farm gear go to xin run for keys add infinity. They need to get rid of the grind of killing dumb aim bots in swarms and try something that require stagey and is not reliant on an endless grind.

 

The current mess they made of the lower planets level 10-30 requires a revision ASAP and shouldn't be left as is for more than a week.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FakeDifficulty

Edited July 22, 2013 by LazyKnight