MR Lock on Planets

[Althial]

I've been noticing some things that are a little concerning, such as seeing MR 0s - MR 4s being dragged along with their friends to high leveled places such as Sedna, Eris and Pluto. I think that people being able to bring newly-joined Tenno to high leveled places to rank gear and or farm for materials might ruin the fun for the MR 0 to 4s by making them feel that they can't do anything / deal damage.

I propose to put an MR lock of 5 or higher on Pluto, Sedna and Eris to prevent this, but I'd like to hear other people's opinions on this. Also to further back up my point: 

Notice the damage done and the revives. Thanks, looking forward to reading replies :D 

[(XBOX)OmniDevil]

I honestly don't think it matters. It really comes down to personal preference. If a MR0-4 doesn't want to power level through stuff, that's on them. If they don't care, they'll tag along. Removing the option ends up limiting those options. For those stuck because of low MR not meeting requirements or can't get past a difficult missions, they'll either keep working at it on their own or ask a higher MR friend/player to help. Either way, it's a similar issue.

[KIREEK]

MR is the ammount of gear you leveled up, the game was made so that even the basic starter weapons are enough to defeat enemies on such planets, a player can be MR0 and be an effective killing machine.

You cannot evaluate a player effectiveness based on MR, you can only do this by watching said player, no other way.

I don't want to bring the old argument of "does MR matter?", all i'm saying is that whoever things like that isn't very experienced to begin with.

Raids and certain quests are behind some MR requirements yes, but the planets behind MR walls make no sense, especially since the numbers you are giving as a sugestion (MR5) is a higher value than the MR lock for raids.

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by KIREEK

[Althial]

It ends up being a liability to the squad when 7 of those 8 revives were all him / her (1 was from me :-)], I still think that an MR lock should be necessary to prevent it. Besides, an MR 0 is doing Vor's Prize and other quests before they move onto TWW and TSD (which both have an MR lock of 5 and are locked through junctions between Sedna, Pluto and another one I can't remember).

[Althial]

1 minute ago, KIREEK said:

the game was made so that even the basic starter weapons are enough to defeat enemies on such planets

The thing is, it isn't enough. (S)He had 2 total kills in a 10 wave defense and brought complete unranked gear when he/she joined, so clearly, the player just started (I took the screen 6 waves into the defense)

 

[KIREEK]

7 minutes ago, Althial said:

It ends up being a liability to the squad when 7 of those 8 revives were all him / her (1 was from me :-)],

oh?

In that case the solution is easier than you might expect, you never saw those topics where players complain that others are too good? Like spaming certain abilities, using certain AOE weapons, sliding attacks, moving fast,....

If you incorporate that into your gameplay and destroy every enemy in sight, you will lower the probability of someone dying in the mission.

Quote

The thing is, it isn't enough. (S)He had 2 total kills in a 10 wave defense and brought complete unranked gear when he/she joined, so clearly, the player just started (I took the screen 6 waves into the defense)

It is enough, i tested myself with my own mk1 branton, i didn't say a modless weapon, i mean using the basic weapons and only grind for the mods, could a mr0 player be enough, the answer is yes, but obviously this depends on the player himself.

Edited July 31, 2017 by KIREEK

[Althial]

That's not the case. We're in an XP farm, we're leveling stuff, we purposely bring bad stuff along with us to level. Also, keep in mind, that a frame with only 100 heath and 100 shields along with 225 armor gets shredded pretty easily when you put it off against level 35 enemies when it's unmodded.

Also, this person didn't know how to bullet jump or double jump yet. Pretty difficult to survive considering all of those variables.

[KIREEK]

6 minutes ago, Althial said:

That's not the case. We're in an XP farm, we're leveling stuff, we purposely bring bad stuff along with us to level. Also, keep in mind, that a frame with only 100 heath and 100 shields along with 225 armor gets shredded pretty easily when you put it off against level 35 enemies when it's unmodded.

Also, this person didn't know how to bullet jump or double jump yet. Pretty difficult to survive considering all of those variables.

That's nowhere near MR related.

It's not the MR lock that will solve anything, MR doesn't unlock bullet jumps, more shields or competent gameplay.

[Althial]

Erm.. It was related to the topic. I was referring to the unranked MR 0 player who hopped in and got shredded. He had unmodded everything. I was just trying to prove that he was very new to the game and that he was probably only one mission in.

[Archistopheles]

Didn't hurt the game 3 years ago.

Game seems to be doing well despite having this.

[ZenDash]

Yes, this needs to be a thing. I believe new players should experience lower tier planets first and then gradually climb their way to the top instead of having higher tier stuff spoiled to them in the very few hours of their gameplay. This only makes the game stale faster and plus us more experienced wouldn't have to deal with them dying at every butcher/moa that sneezes on him on high level missions.

[Althial]

48 minutes ago, Archistopheles said:

Didn't hurt the game 3 years ago.

Game seems to be doing well despite having this.

It didn't happen in the past because there weren't too many players, but now that this is one of the most played games on Steam (daily) the chance to see this and the need for something to be done about it is amplified / a lot more common. But, I respect your opinion. Thanks for your insight :D 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Althial
Grammar

[TheyCallMeGunny]

Taxi is less common than ever since Junctions prevent beat-to-unlock. As Archistopheles said:

43 minutes ago, Archistopheles said:

Didn't hurt the game 3 years ago.

Game seems to be doing well despite having this.

I bring my real-life friends and my girlfriend along on missions. So you'll often see a few MR3/4/5 tagging along with me on Nightmare missions. But thing is, I carry the weight, so they are a burden to no one. In fact, they hardly ever need revived, but the randoms almost always do regardless of MR.

And it's not like 90% of us weren't taxied at one point. I got into Warframe when Ember was still a guy. Taxi was the primary means of advancement for the majority of the community at that time as everyone still learned what was what, and as any mission beaten on a taxi became permanently unlocked to you.

Seems it worked out pretty well. Game and playerbase have done just fine.

Also, MR is no indication of skill or knowledge whatsoever. Look at the standard tactic of "fodder": Where people have decided on their favorite weapon before they can even unlock it, and then just grind everything else unmodded and sell it straight away, never testing or verifying a single game mechanic in 500 hours of play. Get to MR15 and  have never actually learned a thing because they haven't tried to. Meanwhile, some MR5 guys out there are looking up mods, asking questions, understanding the mechanics of the game, and making versatile builds that show their understanding of how the game works, because they WANT to learn.

[Archistopheles]

14 minutes ago, Althial said:

It didn't happen in the past because there weren't too many players

No, you misunderstand.

It happened all the time. We all did it at one time or another to help a friend or a rando. We've been doing this since day 1. It hasn't hurt the game yet.

[Althial]

 

4 minutes ago, TheyCallMeGunny said:

Also, MR is no indication of skill or knowledge whatsoever

The reason I pointed out the MR was that he just started. I highly doubt any MR 0s with Mk. 1 gear (all unranked at that) have any mods or understanding of the game yet. I also felt the need to explain that because they had an unmodded (health and shield wise) Excal. So, by that logic, I'd assume they just started and don't know anything about the game yet, while considering his movements in-game which consisted of holding down the shift button and single-jumps.  

So, frankly, I'm going to have to disagree there. But this is a specific case, I can't bet on all MR 0s knowing nothing, but all the physical evidence I saw was clear that he didn't know much. But, thanks for your insight. :-)

[Althial]

But honestly, it's plain and simple. I get it that taxi's should be involved, but I don't think there should be taxis for an MR 0. At least put a lock of a minimum of MR 3. I don't understand why low leveled players who have just scratched the surface of the game need to XP farm when they could progress naturally with a friend and not be carried along the way. Along the way they could learn things, get better gear, and farm at the places they have unlocked. No need to zoom ahead and go to the highest leveled enemies on the starchart. Defeats the purpose of progression and any sense of getting gradually better and (in my opinion) ruins the game. But, again, that's just my opinion.

[TheyCallMeGunny]

15 hours ago, Althial said:

But honestly, it's plain and simple. I get it that taxi's should be involved, but I don't think there should be taxis for an MR 0

That I'll give you. But I think there's a better way to restrict it, based upon your previous quote:

 

15 hours ago, Althial said:

 

The reason I pointed out the MR was that he just started. I highly doubt any MR 0s with Mk. 1 gear (all unranked at that) have any mods or understanding of the game yet. I also felt the need to explain that because they had an unmodded (health and shield wise) Excal.

Mod scoring for lower MRs. Much like warframe capacity, being equal to the greater of MR or frame rank: You could have a "either be this MR or have a total mod score."
__________________

I'm going to be totally honest, those friends I bring along have one advantage some other low MR players might not: I traded them some really good mods, the ones I consider "staples" (Maxed Flow, Vitality, Intensify, even some rarer ones like Berserker or whatnot. All in all probably 30 rare eachs and a good 10 or so of the uncommon and common ones that still remain staples, as well helped them get their basics up and running like a good sentinel with vacuum to make their grind a bit faster.

And of those friends who are new, 3/4 of them are actually pretty good at the game mostly because they have me and maybe 10 other guys with experience who they have had to help explain things before they ever even played. Bit, the nickname for my one friend, listens quite intently when the older guys explain mechanics. Like the difference between corrosive damage and a corrosive proc: He actually knows they do two different things: And even went out of his way when he was still installing the game to check the Damage 2.0 charts to fill the time.

If not for his friends, his warframe might not do so well on Nightmare missions, even despite his understanding of mechanics, and I'll totally admit that.

But that's the thing, there isn't much of a way to tell who has been helped and who just randomly tagged along.

---Also, there is an MR limit for non-taxi players. You have to be MR5 to open one of the junctions, I believe it's Uranus. If you aren't, you can only go past it with a friend as party leader. As you have to craft an MR5 weapon to unlock the junction itself.