[Concept / Suggestion] In-depth Mag Rework

[Neonite]

I've decided to propose a rework idea for a Warframe that often gets trashed after having a (let's just say, "not-so-successful-as-intended rework") - Mag.

 

The purpose of this rework is to put more power and versatility into Mag's other abilities other than just Magnetize and allow for synergy with other Warframes (all while adding a spice of supportiveness).

 

DISCLAIMER

 

Just cause some details aren't mentioned here doesn't mean they are removed. I'm listing details that are important for the ability's concept and i'll include side mechanics only if they have big impact for gameplay.

 

Mag's Problems

 

- Passive, Polarize and Crush and pretty worthless unless for low level trashmob clearing (for which even Polarize isn't that good either)

- All damage being put into Magnetize which also seems to not be very reliable choice

- Poor self-defense

- Unfulfilled fantasy and concept

 

Rework Concept

The purpose of this rework is to turn Mag into a support-like caster that offers a unique way of protecting her teammates that synergizes amazingly with certain frames. The idea is to target frames that value shields and armor (Harrow, Trinity, Chroma, etc.) and also give Mag reliable way to do damage / crowd control.

 

Simple Changes

 

New Passive - Current Well

Enemies damaged by Mag's gunfire share damage and are being attracted towards each other.

1 - Pull

Replenishes energy per enemy hit, energy orb drops removed, ability affects a cone. Affected enemies have a part of their armor stripped and granted to Mag.

2 - Magnetize

Ability is anchored by the main target unit which becomes invulnerable and unable to act after dying, ability doesn't do absorbed % damage per second. Pull used on enemies in Magnetize does scaling damage but does not pull them out of it. Detonating Magnetizes set off a chain reaction.

3 - Polarize

Works completely differently - pulse applies a buff to allies that allows them to use a portion of their armor for shields. Enemies affected replenish shields in AoE.

4 - (New Ability) Orbit Rounds

A toggle ability that consumes energy each time an enemy is affected by it - gunfire causes targets to fly backwards and pull in other enemies on the go.

 

In-Depth details

Spoiler

 

 

Changes

 

Stats:

Base Energy - 100 > 150 

NOTE: base energy increase is meant to help her with both a bit of an increase in abilities' costs and also having a generally low energy pool as a caster Warframe (even as a Prime).

 

[NEW] Passive - Current Well

Mag's gunfire makes enemies attract eachother and share damage taken.

Damaging enemies with gunfire marks them. Marked enemies slowly attract other marked enemies within 30 meters and transfer 20% damage taken to those being attracted.

Projectiles in Magnetize can utilize this passive

Fully works with AoE weapons

Damage transfer works for any damage source including abilities from Mag and Allies

NOTE: this change is working on a few of points - first, Mag's current passive is next to useless, especially ever since we got cross-sentinel vacuum. Even though it does have niche use for when you have pets it's really awkward to utilize and most of time you wouldn't even try to do it or it wouldn't change much, and keeping it just for a niche companion choice isn't good for game health. Secondly, this passive allows Mag to further will fantasy and utility of being attractive ATTRACTING enemies and damage sharing will allow great synergy with AoE weapons / powers and Magnetize.

[CHANGED] 1 - Pull

Magnetic force pulls enemies toward you, stunning them and bringing them into melee range.

Cost: 35 Energy

Mag produces a strong magnetic field pulling every enemy in front of her in a 90 degree angle up to 15 / 20 / 22 / 25 meters away, dealing 100 / 125 / 150 / 300 Magnetic damage. 

Pull removes 10% of affected enemies' armor and grants it to Mag for 8 seconds (non-stackable with repeated casts, only resets the value and duration from individual groups affected)

Enemies affected each refund 5 energy.

Cone reach and width scales with Power Range

Damage scales with Power Strength

Energy restoration scales inversely with Power Efficiency

Ragdolls enemies affected

Cast time of 0.5 seconds

Doesn't interrupt movement or one-handed actions

NOTE: Pull was changed to have no after pull delay and to be in a cone, also refund energy in a way similar to Nidus' Virulence (as well as have combos with other abilities but onto that in a bit). Firstly, the delay after Cast seemed unnecessary - even though, yes, it's a crowd control passive, on its own it offers less than most CC abilities in the game so i'd rather shoot my gun asap thank-you-very-much. Secondly, i changed the way range works from ~180 degree cone and small circular area around Mag into a 90 degree cone scaling with Power Range. Yes, this is an intentional drawback due to how this ability interacts with others but bear in mind at max Power Range it can reach wider cone that it had before. Lastly, the energy restore and cost increase are meant to encourage good opportunity Pulls rather than Spamming on 1-2 enemies (with decent Pulls allowing Mag to regain energy). Although this will make her only Warframe apart Nidus to have first ability cost more than 25 energy (and especially considering she's one of starters), i don't expect that to cripple her a lot with the energy increase and refund.

[CHANGED] 2 - Magnetize

Creates a magnetic field around a target, ensnaring the target and redirecting gunfire into them to power up the field and attraction.

Cost: 50 Energy 

Mag generates a powerful magnetic field that encompasses a target and anchors it in place. The field has a 2 / 3 / 3.5 / 4 meter radius and lasts for 10 / 14 / 18 / 22 seconds. All projectiles, bullets, enemies are pulled to the center of the field. During the field's lifetime, incoming damage from all sources will be multiplied by 100% / 125% / 150% / 175%. Additionally, the pull force increases with damage absorbed. If the initial target is killed, the field destabilizes at the end of Magnetize's duration and explodes for 100% / 125% / 150% / 175% of the total damage the field has absorbed  in a 5 / 10 / 12 / 15 meter radius. The initial target then stays as a Conduit.

Casting Pull on enemies inside Magnetize will cause each enemy to burst with energy, dealing 75 / 100 / 125 / 150 Magnetic damage per enemy in Magnetize in 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 meter radius (enemies don't take damage from their own bursts). WILL NOT PULL THEM OUT OF MAGNETIZE

Detonating Magnetizes will instantly detonate other Magnetizes in its explosion radius, for same damage as the one triggering the detonation (not affected by falloff from damage against enemies).

A Conduit unit is invulnerable to damage but unable to act. Their body functions as a center for Magnetize and displacing Conduits will move Magnetizes along.

Field size and field explosion radius are affected by Power Range

Damage absorption, field detonation and burst are affected by Power Range

Field duration is affected by Power Duration

Cast time of 1 second

Detonating Magnetize will kill the Conduit

Doesn't interrupt movement or one-handed actions

Chain detonation doesn't need line-of sight

NOTE: this has quite a few changes. Firstly, the 25% of absorbed damage per second has been replaced with Pull triggering bursts (similar to the fashion of Polarize which has been now moved to this ability). This change is aimed to allow Mag have more base strength. While gun interactions are great making whole frame rely around an ability WHICH relies on your weapon to have amazing base damage is pretty odd and definitely unreliable. Also adding some more power to Pull by allowing combo and removing it pulling enemies out of Magnetize cause that's counter-intuitive. I've added chain detonation to make interesting playstyles, after considering that most of time stacking Magnetizes isn't reliable due to interaction weird / buggy and Magnetizes exploding near each other often put some to waste as all potential targets die already.

[CHANGED] 3 - Polarize

Sends out a pulse that makes enemy deaths replenish shields and protects allies' shields.

Energy Cost: 75

Mag sends out a pulse that travels outwards 10 m/s for 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 seconds. Enemies and allies touched by pulse are Polarized for 10 seconds:

Polarized allies have 15% / 25% / 35% / 45% armor applied to shields (capped at 100%)

Polarized enemies release pulses on death in 10 meter radius that restores 50 / 65 / 70 / 85 shields (can overshield)

Pulse travel time and Polarize duration are affected by Power Duration

Shield replenish and armor application to shields scale with Power Strength

Polarize always affects Mag

Cast time of 1.5 seconds and recast delay of 2 seconds

NOTE: this ability has been revamped entirely. I removed base range (the pulse comes right from Mag (or maybe her heart, as she spreads the love. And pain)). I decided to take a new approach to defense with being able to apply armor to shields and also restore shields in a more fluid way instead of just having to spam the ability.

[NEW] 4 - Orbit Rounds

Mag infuses her gunshots with Magnetic Force, dragging enemies together into magnetized clusters.

Energy Cost: 35 per enemy affected

When toggled on, Mag's gunfire will ragdoll targets and send them flying backwards 25 m/s (no arc for first 35 meters), while pulling in nearby enemies within 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 meters along with it.

The flight stops upon initial target impacts a surface, targets afflicted take 50% / 65% / 70% / 85% of initial shot's damage as Magnetic damage  are slowed by 20 / 35 / 50 / 65% for 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 seconds.

Target pull range is affected by Power Range, flight duration before drop is not

Slow Duration is affected by Power Duration

NOTE: an entirely new ability! This one's made purely for utility. While it may not seem much at first since it deals no damage it can work greatly at certain angles where you are able to pinpoint a few of Conduits for a BIG BOOM. This ability also allows for pure utility / CC with any weapon which is yet another weapon interaction that would be interesting to see play out in Warframe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In general Mag feels like very underdone kit and is just one of many old warframes who suffer from old, weak and blatant designs. This concept was made by me and i don't really expect much agreement on it since my perspective of balance is unfamiliar with casual online shooters and especially DE's, but i thought to share this as one of many ideas how to fix Mag.

 

[Sajochi]

No. Just no to all of it. Mag is not as useless as people think and is plenty versatile. What needs to change is the mindset that people have over her, and increase her energy pool along with making Fracturing Crush part of Crush at base and replacing it with a new augment. Let me explain, in detail, why Mag is in a pretty good spot right now and doesn't need any more changes.

 

Passive - Simple passive, could use a new change, but allows us to take pets instead of sentinels if we wish. you want to be mobile as Mag anyways, because you are made of paper. Also, stop face tanking as Mag, I see a lot of players do this and then say she's trash for not taking a hit. 

 

Pull - It's a utility move. It isn't mean to be a killing move. It's quick, cheap and effective hard CC that allows you to set up your other abilities. Mag is about Combos, and this is a good way to start your combos. The energy return on kill is a little wonky, but the point is not to kill, it's literally in the name. She already has an effective armor strip that i'll get into once we get there. Augment could use a change, because it's pretty useless, but the ability itself is fine.

 

Magnetize - here is where I see a lot of people build for. Let me tell you, if you focus on this ability too much, you will be missing out on the utility that Mag offers, and of course you'll say she is boring or trash. Magnetize is designed to make on enemy die quickly, and the resulting bubble has a DoT and a huge detonation at the end. Use it on tanky enemies to maximize it's potential. Tanky enemies killing you too fast? Did you bother to pull them so you can set up magnetize? Anyways, back on track, the damage you put into the enemy is multiplied by a base of 2x, increasing with power strength. That means with a 200% power strength build, you have a 4x multiplier of all incoming damage. If you burst the enemy in one hit (like with a drakgoon, which can output huge damage numbers, and is slash based) you have 4x the damage from your gun and anything else that was pulled into the bubble. The explosion at the end is 4x the absorbed damage, and ignores cover. it's enough to kill enemies or knock them down for another bubble party. augment is fine, since you want to decide on adding even more utility, or just have lasting bubbles for cover. 

 

Polarize - although it's a flat amount of armor and shield strip, it retained a few things that are overlooked: it has a huge shield restore for your team, the augment can make Mag incredibly hard to kill (save for slash, gas, and toxin procs.) and damage done to shields and armor explodes out, hitting nearby enemies for a base 2.5x multipler of magnetic damage. Which means, she's still a corpus nuke if enemies are bunched up, and can even deal with grineer units by removing armor and dealing even more damage. And yes, I've seen affinity numbers fly across the screen from a single polarize cast in sortie level missions, where enemy density is extremely high. It also restores shields to pds, extractors, operators, pets, sentinels, pretty much anything that has a shield that is allied to you.

 

Crush - Another utility ability with some damage. The point is not to kill, it's to stop all enemies in range from doing a damn thing so you can think. "But you're motionless during the cast!" So are the enemies, and they get knocked down, and have to get back up, which gives you time to set up cover with magnetize, pull them for more CC, get the hell out of there if you need a breather, anything you can think of while they are busy getting back up because you lifted them in the air and then dropped them like a mic. Fracturing crush augment reduces enemy armor and keeps them rooted in place over a duration. Get this, that augment caps out at 80% armor reduction (the wiki has finally been updated on this!) It also stacks with itself, which means you mainly need 1 FC and 1 Polarize to remove armor. Forever!

 

Now for combos

 

Combo #1 Pull +Magnetize x2: Pretty simple. Pull a bunch of enemies, then cast magnetize on priority targets. This allows you to make cover and deal with problem units while also massacring the little guys.

 

Combo #2 Polarize + Pull: After casting polarize, immediately cast pull to grab a group of enemies and bring them in your wave. 9/10 times, you will kill that cluster with the wave crash, 1/10, you have weakened enemies that you can set up other abilities on.

 

Combo #3 FC + Polarize (can do x2 if needed): This is the full armor strip combo. Very useful when done fast enough, leaving weakened enemies that you can shoot dead. don't try this on corpus though. Or do, it's your life.

 

Combo #4 The full rotation special: This is a little tricky and results may vary. Mag has enough energy to do this once from full or forever with a trinity. 

1. Cast Pull to bring enemies to you
2. Cast Crush to hold them in place
3. Cast polarize for some debuffing
4. Cast Magnetize on your chosen bubble buddy.
5. Grofit

With this combo, you are ensuring enemies are in range of crush, debuffing them for your team, and making some cover while killing that stupid [insert your most hated enemy here]. Cost a lot of energy, but damn does it feel satisfying to pull off.

 

So no to your rework suggestions. Mag is in a good spot. She needs more energy, and once shield gating comes, she will be very valuable. She has a very active play style. She isn't a cookie-clicker frame anymore. Master her, and you find hat she is probably one of the best designed frames now. And again, utility is as important as damage, and use all of your abilities to get Mag's full potential.

Thank you.

 

Spoiler

Also, do you want another hydroid where her kit revolves around one ability? This is how you get a kit that revolves around one ability.That's the most boring way to play. Period.

 

[Neonite]

2 hours ago, Sajochi said:

No. Just no to all of it. Mag is not as useless as people think and is plenty versatile. What needs to change is the mindset that people have over her, and increase her energy pool along with making Fracturing Crush part of Crush at base and replacing it with a new augment. Let me explain, in detail, why Mag is in a pretty good spot right now and doesn't need any more changes.

 

Passive - Simple passive, could use a new change, but allows us to take pets instead of sentinels if we wish. you want to be mobile as Mag anyways, because you are made of paper. Also, stop face tanking as Mag, I see a lot of players do this and then say she's trash for not taking a hit. 

 

Pull - It's a utility move. It isn't mean to be a killing move. It's quick, cheap and effective hard CC that allows you to set up your other abilities. Mag is about Combos, and this is a good way to start your combos. The energy return on kill is a little wonky, but the point is not to kill, it's literally in the name. She already has an effective armor strip that i'll get into once we get there. Augment could use a change, because it's pretty useless, but the ability itself is fine.

 

Magnetize - here is where I see a lot of people build for. Let me tell you, if you focus on this ability too much, you will be missing out on the utility that Mag offers, and of course you'll say she is boring or trash. Magnetize is designed to make on enemy die quickly, and the resulting bubble has a DoT and a huge detonation at the end. Use it on tanky enemies to maximize it's potential. Tanky enemies killing you too fast? Did you bother to pull them so you can set up magnetize? Anyways, back on track, the damage you put into the enemy is multiplied by a base of 2x, increasing with power strength. That means with a 200% power strength build, you have a 4x multiplier of all incoming damage. If you burst the enemy in one hit (like with a drakgoon, which can output huge damage numbers, and is slash based) you have 4x the damage from your gun and anything else that was pulled into the bubble. The explosion at the end is 4x the absorbed damage, and ignores cover. it's enough to kill enemies or knock them down for another bubble party. augment is fine, since you want to decide on adding even more utility, or just have lasting bubbles for cover. 

 

Polarize - although it's a flat amount of armor and shield strip, it retained a few things that are overlooked: it has a huge shield restore for your team, the augment can make Mag incredibly hard to kill (save for slash, gas, and toxin procs.) and damage done to shields and armor explodes out, hitting nearby enemies for a base 2.5x multipler of magnetic damage. Which means, she's still a corpus nuke if enemies are bunched up, and can even deal with grineer units by removing armor and dealing even more damage. And yes, I've seen affinity numbers fly across the screen from a single polarize cast in sortie level missions, where enemy density is extremely high. It also restores shields to pds, extractors, operators, pets, sentinels, pretty much anything that has a shield that is allied to you.

 

Crush - Another utility ability with some damage. The point is not to kill, it's to stop all enemies in range from doing a damn thing so you can think. "But you're motionless during the cast!" So are the enemies, and they get knocked down, and have to get back up, which gives you time to set up cover with magnetize, pull them for more CC, get the hell out of there if you need a breather, anything you can think of while they are busy getting back up because you lifted them in the air and then dropped them like a mic. Fracturing crush augment reduces enemy armor and keeps them rooted in place over a duration. Get this, that augment caps out at 80% armor reduction (the wiki has finally been updated on this!) It also stacks with itself, which means you mainly need 1 FC and 1 Polarize to remove armor. Forever!

 

Now for combos

 

Combo #1 Pull +Magnetize x2: Pretty simple. Pull a bunch of enemies, then cast magnetize on priority targets. This allows you to make cover and deal with problem units while also massacring the little guys.

 

Combo #2 Polarize + Pull: After casting polarize, immediately cast pull to grab a group of enemies and bring them in your wave. 9/10 times, you will kill that cluster with the wave crash, 1/10, you have weakened enemies that you can set up other abilities on.

 

Combo #3 FC + Polarize (can do x2 if needed): This is the full armor strip combo. Very useful when done fast enough, leaving weakened enemies that you can shoot dead. don't try this on corpus though. Or do, it's your life.

 

Combo #4 The full rotation special: This is a little tricky and results may vary. Mag has enough energy to do this once from full or forever with a trinity. 

1. Cast Pull to bring enemies to you
2. Cast Crush to hold them in place
3. Cast polarize for some debuffing
4. Cast Magnetize on your chosen bubble buddy.
5. Grofit

With this combo, you are ensuring enemies are in range of crush, debuffing them for your team, and making some cover while killing that stupid [insert your most hated enemy here]. Cost a lot of energy, but damn does it feel satisfying to pull off.

 

So no to your rework suggestions. Mag is in a good spot. She needs more energy, and once shield gating comes, she will be very valuable. She has a very active play style. She isn't a cookie-clicker frame anymore. Master her, and you find hat she is probably one of the best designed frames now. And again, utility is as important as damage, and use all of your abilities to get Mag's full potential.

Thank you.

 

  Hide contents

Also, do you want another hydroid where her kit revolves around one ability? This is how you get a kit that revolves around one ability.That's the most boring way to play. Period.

 

Thanks for thoroughly reading my suggestions to make a detailed reply about it. A reply like this was to be expected though, but the reason why these changes were suggested is because Warframes' design is as versatile as a fork most of time. Mag herself has only ONE good ability which is Magnetize. It actually allows her to do damage and reliably CC without spamming and has active contribution towards ability. The ability itself has most of good design down, but when it comes to it, it's really most Mag can do. Sure, you can pull around enemies all day, keep crushing them. But when that lvl 100 bombard fires at you, not even 6000 polarize casts will save you.

Polarize itself is terrible as an ability, going (not even so much) into the game the armor removal becomes less than a corrosive proc due to its flat value going up against the tremendous amounts of armor past level ~130 or so, the shield replenish is close to meaningless against the insane damage that starts at even level 80 or so and the shield burst for corpus and stuff is also close to garbage in numeric values.

When it comes to Crush, it's an ability that has reasons to both be discarded and used, kind of like Oberon was mostly just 4 spamming before his rework. Yes, it has good cc and decent range. However, it does F***-all for damage, the CC is glitchy and the concept itself doesn't really fit in too much considering Magnetize does its job of holding enemies in place.

Magnetize seems to be the only reason most people who even still play Mag don't discard her. It's a powerful albeit kind of unreliable ability (enemies run away from pull / projectiles kill you even though it's your ability). It's the ability that pins Mag is not 'trash' yet in most people's eyes and making a kit where it relies on this ability isn't that bad. I'd rather call it 'core' ability, which doesn't mean that it demeans other abilities from value without them using to compliment the core one. Good example would be Oberon's 3 and 4 working with his 2 - the ability is useful on its own and also to compliment others.

Mag kit in general feels very old when compared to newer frames. Their abilites, each has its own purpose and function. Mag's kind of a splatter of a bit of same stuff between them all.

The rework suggestion itself was meant to explore the thoughts of community on more complex combo-based kits that utilize cores and corridor synergies. I'll take any feedback into consideration when suggesting other reworks.

 

P.S. DE #*($%%@ up with Hydroid rework so no, i don't want Mag to be like him. Hydroid's rework was even cheaper than Oberon, and it's odd cause they're both quick and simple reworks just to sell prime access. And here i thought DE would've learned their lesson with Oberon rework.

Edited August 17, 2017 by SubExodus
errors, correction

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

I don't like this one bit. I really believe that Mag is in an okay place and she isn't as bad as you're saying.

Pull Changes -

Uh... this makes pull the best CC in the game effectively since you will always be able to infinitely spam it. So no, Pull is in a great spot already, and is among some of the best in-game CC for a first ability, rivaling Condemn and Minelayer.

Magnetize Changes -

You said it yourself. Magnetize is "Mag's one good ability", although it isn't. This change you suggested was not really needed. You can make Mag into a room-nuking disarming Warframe with this ability and Magnetized Disarm. No changes needed.

Polarize Changes -

You know, instead of this, most people agree with just flat out removing any damage from the ability and replacing it with percentile based armor and shield removal. This would be the optimal choice since it does not compromise DE's room-nuke pet peeve and keeps the ability pretty similar to the original.

Crush Changes -

Your new "Orbit Rounds" ability is not the best, for starters, you need a gun to actually use it. And second, it's essentially the same as the passive, which also didn't need a change. Crush should do more damage. That's it. And besides, DE has stated they aren't adding new abilities to pre-existing Warframes after Limbo....

I'll point you over to my thread, where I keep all of Mag's abilities while also adding some good changes.

 

[Neonite]

On 10/30/2017 at 6:28 PM, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

I don't like this one bit. I really believe that Mag is in an okay place and she isn't as bad as you're saying.

Pull Changes -

Uh... this makes pull the best CC in the game effectively since you will always be able to infinitely spam it. So no, Pull is in a great spot already, and is among some of the best in-game CC for a first ability, rivaling Condemn and Minelayer.

Magnetize Changes -

You said it yourself. Magnetize is "Mag's one good ability", although it isn't. This change you suggested was not really needed. You can make Mag into a room-nuking disarming Warframe with this ability and Magnetized Disarm. No changes needed.

Polarize Changes -

You know, instead of this, most people agree with just flat out removing any damage from the ability and replacing it with percentile based armor and shield removal. This would be the optimal choice since it does not compromise DE's room-nuke pet peeve and keeps the ability pretty similar to the original.

Crush Changes -

Your new "Orbit Rounds" ability is not the best, for starters, you need a gun to actually use it. And second, it's essentially the same as the passive, which also didn't need a change. Crush should do more damage. That's it. And besides, DE has stated they aren't adding new abilities to pre-existing Warframes after Limbo....

I'll point you over to my thread, where I keep all of Mag's abilities while also adding some good changes.

 

I do agree Pull changes were unnecessary. The ability is as decent as Magnetize and don't necessarily need changes, but her passive is an insult. Most other warframe passives offer something unique that either changes how frame functions (Nidus) or has some synergy / interaction with abilities (Harrow), or just offer a bonus that can be used in some situations (Nova / Volt). Mag's passive has a determined and a consistant use, yes, but it does not offer anything helpful, it's just a convenience that's offered better by the cheapest sentinel mod, Vacuum, This passive just says "Hey guys here's a warframe-based vacuum, you can now use pets without running around like a madman to pick up drops, right?". That would be all great but the ability itself isn't even that convenient to use since it pulls things from your bullet jump's starting point. If it worked all the way through or atleast worked all the time. This is a classic case of DE implementing something that should be just changed or improved or maybe just replaced. Of course i believe there's a lot of people like you who want this to stay instead of being replaced, but this is the kind of thing most of community wants on all warframes. Having a single warframe have it would make it even worse and DE probably just settled for a half-arsed version.

 

As far as Crush goes.... It's bad. Really, really bad. And i'm not talking just about numbers - yes, 3000 Magnetic damage is abysmal but i was told any times Crush is great for CC. It is definitely same thing as Oberon's Reckoning, i mean it also lifts up enemies into air, deals some damage, gives knockdown but there's a reason Reckoning got a mechanic of armor removal, it's cause abilities like these are not "GREAT" CC, they're barely average. Why would Crush even be a contender to like 90% other CC abilities in the game?

Rhino Stomp slows enemies down, for longer time, in a an easier to shoot position and also in a position where you can headshot them. Bastille does same. Abilities that pull (Vortex, Larva) synergize with aoe weapons and abilities, what does Crush do? It momentarily stops them, but the fact that you also have to stop is pretty terrible. And that enemies don't even stop for that long is also terrible. It doesn't synergize with any of her other abilities cause Magnetize does its job for "keeping enemies in one place" but that doesn't matter cause Mag has nothing to synergize it with (except the terrible aoe damage from 3). Only her allies possibly could. And they would do that way better with Magnetize than Crush.

 

And as for the policy of "not giving new abilities to older frames", it's possibly one of the most pointless and stupid things i can imagine. Gen 2 warframes (onward from Ivara) make the previous ones look incredibly stale with their mechanics, and give a feeling of unfulfilled concept / abilities not really matching it.

 

P.S. If Orbit Rounds suck cause they need a weapon, i'll just leave these here: Toxic Lash, Penance, Artemis Bow, Exalted Blade, Hysteria, Landslide, Shattered Lash, Primal fury, Peacemaker, Razorwing

Edited November 1, 2017 by SubExodus

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

4 hours ago, SubExodus said:

P.S. If Orbit Rounds suck cause they need a weapon, i'll just leave these here: Artemis Bow, Exalted Blade, Hysteria, Landslide, Shattered Lash, Primal fury, Peacemaker, Razorwing

You don't need a weapon for any of these, actually. It's just encouraged that you use one. I never said it "suck". It's not the best and I personally don't feel like it's worth the 100 energy.

Toxic Lash and Penance are some exceptions I would make since neither of them are Ultimates, and your Orbit Rounds seems to kinda' be the focus of the kit here. Also, Penance does convert damage into health for the team.

[Neonite]

On 11/2/2017 at 2:41 AM, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

You don't need a weapon for any of these, actually. It's just encouraged that you use one. I never said it "suck". It's not the best and I personally don't feel like it's worth the 100 energy.

Toxic Lash and Penance are some exceptions I would make since neither of them are Ultimates, and your Orbit Rounds seems to kinda' be the focus of the kit here. Also, Penance does convert damage into health for the team.

Orbit Rounds would provide massive CC with a setup that's just a gun