Change Warframe rank requirement on Sorties to Conclave Rating per equipment

[Scylax]

I was unable to join a sortie with my unranked Nekros Prime which I just forma'd. I have 50 mod capacity on Nekros which is more than enough to be combat effective. I have my full Rank 30 loadout equipped except for Soul Survivor and Fortitude which aren't too important (Soul Survivor because I have Vazarin's New Moon, and Fortitude because Nekros tanks health anyway). The current limitation is too naive on which frames it allows -- someone could join with an unmodded Rank 30 warframe for instance. 

Equipment requirements for sorties should be based on something similar to the old Conclave Rating of equipment (now removed) rather than rank, as (the old) Conclave Rating was more intelligent at evaluating equipment's combat effectiveness than pure rank.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Scylax

[InDueTime-EN-]

MR is not the same as Rank. But I agree with this. Sometimes Sorties are a very good exp farm. 

[Shikkoku]

It's a good idea, if you think about the old conclave system, which had limitation and a method to show your equipment's worth. It would be a good use, to make sorties a lower limit, so you can be sure that you can count on your squad-mates... It would keep away new players from "end-game" content, until they powerful enough to make it through. 
But old conclave rating had it's flaws... if you wanted to max it out you would end up wit wired/useless builds... but still better than the maxed warframe as the only limitation. 

BTW MR is Mastery Rank, I think you meant Rank. 

 

[Elvangreen]

Sure, just let me unequip me secondary so my rank is low enough for the challenge?..

There were many problems with the conclave rating system, and stories are not intended to be leveling missions.

[Scylax]

5 minutes ago, Shikkoku said:

BTW MR is Mastery Rank, I think you meant Rank. 

Yeah, I meant Rank -- messed up trying to abbreviate it.

 

3 minutes ago, Elvangreen said:

Sure, just let me unequip me secondary so my rank is low enough for the challenge?..

Sorties are endgame missions -- there's no maximum "power level" you can't go above. This is a request to change the requirements for sorties only -- not other missions.

 

4 minutes ago, Elvangreen said:

There were many problems with the conclave rating system, and stories are not intended to be leveling missions

Sorties are not stories/quests -- they're endgame missions. Endgame is 90% ranking up equipment.

[Shikkoku]

4 minutes ago, Elvangreen said:

Sure, just let me unequip me secondary so my rank is low enough for the challenge?..

There were many problems with the conclave rating system, and stories are not intended to be leveling missions.

I think he meant a lower limit not an upper, so weak players can't get in your team on public and won't make hard times for the rest of the squad... and if you just formaed 5th time your  warframe and you are MR 20 with al mods fully ranked You still can get on the sortie. As It's stornger than a non-formaed but rank 30 warframe. 
 

[Jiminez_Burial]

6 minutes ago, Elvangreen said:

Sure, just let me unequip me secondary so my rank is low enough for the challenge?..

There were many problems with the conclave rating system, and sorties are not intended to be leveling missions.

This sums it up.  If you want to level your equipment, don't have it be at the detriment to those other players who joined sorties for their intended purpose - as a high level "challenge".

The only way I would agree with sorties allowing non-30 frames would be if the lobby was pre-made/invite only.  Otherwise don't subject us to a bad time simply because you couldn't be bothered bringing in proper equipment.

@Scylax I'm pretty sure it's a case of @Elvangreen getting the placement of the 't' incorrect (sorties / stories), not him thinking they're story missions.  

Edited August 25, 2017 by Starfreak911

[Shikkoku]

32 minutes ago, Scylax said:

I was unable to join a sortie with my unranked Nekros Prime which I just forma'd. I have 50 mod capacity on Nekros which is more than enough to be combat effective. I have my full Rank 30 loadout equipped except for Soul Survivor and Fortitude which aren't too important (Soul Survivor because I have Vazarin's New Moon, and Fortitude because Nekros tanks health anyway). The current limitation is too naive on which frames it allows -- someone could join with an unmodded Rank 30 warframe for instance. 

Equipment requirements for sorties should be based on something similar to the old Conclave Rating of equipment (now removed) rather than MR, as (the old) Conclave Rating was more intelligent at evaluating equipment's combat effectiveness than pure MR.

I think you should compose your post more specifically because as I see it can confuse some people, but it's a good idea IMO. 

[Elvangreen]

2 minutes ago, Shikkoku said:

I think he meant a lower limit not an upper, so weak players can't get in your team on public and won't make hard times for the rest of the squad... and if you just formaed 5th time your  warframe and you are MR 20 with al mods fully ranked You still can get on the sortie. As It's stornger than a non-formaed but rank 30 warframe. 
 

in that case, let me slap on Reflex guard, its completely useless but had a really high conclave rating...

Player skill outweighs their builds most of the time anyway.

[MagPrime]

No, thank you.

With how the Conclave rating system works, someone can slap on the most ridiculous build and Warframe, be totally ineffective and cause mission failures. 

Yes, Sorties are excellent xp.  But there are other places on the Star Chart that are just as good, if not better, specifically for leveling up your items.  Those three missions are supposed to be end game content that forces you to bring your best gear, mods and A game, not to toss on your 3rd Forma and let everyone else carry you.

[Shikkoku]

2 minutes ago, Starfreak911 said:

This sums it up.  If you want to level your equipment, don't have it be at the detriment to those other players who joined sorties for their intended purpose - as a high level "challenge".

The only way I would agree with sorties allowing non-30 frames would be if the lobby was pre-made/invite only.  Otherwise don't subject us to a bad time simply because you couldn't be bothered bringing in proper equipment.

In some occasions rank 0 warframes can be much stronger than rank 30 ones... (MR 20 + 5 forma + potato vs. MR 2 + 0 forma + no potato) So if we want to stop weaklings do sorties a Rating system which takes into account what mods you have on your WF and on your weapons would be better than, no max ranked frames... I mean you can go unmodded in the current system, and you would die constantly making it annoying for others... 

[Scylax]

8 minutes ago, Starfreak911 said:

don't have it be at the detriment to those other players who joined sorties for their intended purpose - as a high level "challenge".

Equipment not being rank 30 does not equate to it being bad. I have 1500 armor (Health Conversion), regenerate health constantly (+3 /s Rejuvenation, +5 every time an enemy dies near me (Nekros passive), + health orb spam from Desecrate), get a panic button with Vazarin's ability which makes me invincible for a few seconds + restores my health, and have an extra fallback with Quick Thinking. As I mentioned earlier, I am only missing two mods from my MR 30 build which are both negligible -- I utilize 50 mod capacity at rank 0 which is more than plenty.

 

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

With how the Conclave rating system works, someone can slap on the most ridiculous build and Warframe, be totally ineffective and cause mission failures. 

I can join with a rank 30 squishy frame with no mods and cause mission failures. Rank requirements don't stop that.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Scylax

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, Scylax said:

I can join with a rank 30 squishy frame with no mods and cause mission failures. Rank requirements don't stop that.

No, they don't.  But they don't encourage people to totally gimp or run with negative builds just to gain access.  When you have a Rank 30 Warframe, you have multiple mod points to have a half way decent build, you choosing to not use them has no bearing.

[Shikkoku]

Just now, MagPrime said:

No, thank you.

With how the Conclave rating system works, someone can slap on the most ridiculous build and Warframe, be totally ineffective and cause mission failures. 

Yes, Sorties are excellent xp.  But there are other places on the Star Chart that are just as good, if not better, specifically for leveling up your items.  Those three missions are supposed to be end game content that forces you to bring your best gear, mods and A game, not to toss on your 3rd Forma and let everyone else carry you.

Well you are right, someone could do that, but why would they? 

If the limit to go for a sortie isn't too high in Conclave rating, and conclave rating has no other effect on the mission, it doesn't matter. 

In the current system an MR 2 guy Who yus ranked to 30 his frame, can go for Sorties without any Mods equipped? (of course why would they, bet there is the possibility) 

Which one is better? 

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, Shikkoku said:

Well you are right, someone could do that, but why would they? 

If the limit to go for a sortie isn't too high in Conclave rating, and conclave rating has no other effect on the mission, it doesn't matter. 

In the current system an MR 2 guy Who yus ranked to 30 his frame, can go for Sorties without any Mods equipped? (of course why would they, bet there is the possibility) 

Which one is better? 

Actually, in the current system, the lowest MR a player can have and still access Sorties is MR 5. 

Honestly though, I think restrictions should be removed when someone starts an Invite/Friends Only lobby.  In Public, there should be some kind of lock.

Edited August 25, 2017 by MagPrime

[Shikkoku]

Just now, MagPrime said:

Actually, in the current system, the lowest MR a player can have and still access Sorties is MR 5. 

OK it doesn't matter if MR2 or MR5 the thing I wanted to point out that players with near to zero experience in the game can access sorties... 
And they do, this is part of the reason why I usually just solo them (if possible) 

[MagPrime]

Just now, Shikkoku said:

OK it doesn't matter if MR2 or MR5 the thing I wanted to point out that players with near to zero experience in the game can access sorties... 
And they do, this is part of the reason why I usually just solo them (if possible) 

In order for someone to access Sorties, they have to complete The Second Dream quest.  In order to get that, they have to find and scan a random spawn enemy on Uranus (pun not intended)

I run a clan specifically for helping new players, and I have several friends that play, and I've yet to see any of them access Sorties before they're at least MR 7 or higher.  So, my apologies, but I see your comment as hyperbolic based on my experiences and observations over the past few years.

[(PSN)HSomDevil]

So is this about under-powered players in sorties or about OP wanting to level up warframes in sorties?

If it's the latter I'd say level your warframes somewhere else since that literally is the only high level content which doesn't allow this and even then you can use it to rank your weapons.

[Shikkoku]

23 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

In order for someone to access Sorties, they have to complete The Second Dream quest.  In order to get that, they have to find and scan a random spawn enemy on Uranus (pun not intended)

I run a clan specifically for helping new players, and I have several friends that play, and I've yet to see any of them access Sorties before they're at least MR 7 or higher.  So, my apologies, but I see your comment as hyperbolic based on my experiences and observations over the past few years.

Well i guess you're right... still, it would be good to use some similar maybe upgraded method like the Conclave rating was, even with keeping the max rank requirement. So weak players wouldn't be allowed to do sorties. 

[Scylax]

I'm aware I can level up my equipment anywhere -- I would rather be playing the game than farming affinity just so I can play the game when my rank 0 Nekros is more than capable of running sorties.

[MagPrime]

Just now, Shikkoku said:

Well i guess you're right... still, it would be good to use some similar maybe upgraded method like the Conclave rating was, even with keeping the max rank requirement. So weak players wouldn't be allowed to do sorties. 

I don't think we should go with the idea of "weak players should be allowed to do Sorties" simply because there is a viable alternative; remove restrictions from Invite/Friends Only lobbies.

This prevents people from jumping in with no mods and forcing people to carry them and encourages people to actually use Recruiting, Clan, Alliance and even Friends list so that they can build a team and do as they please.

[Shikkoku]

3 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

I don't think we should go with the idea of "weak players should be allowed to do Sorties" simply because there is a viable alternative; remove restrictions from Invite/Friends Only lobbies.

This prevents people from jumping in with no mods and forcing people to carry them and encourages people to actually use Recruiting, Clan, Alliance and even Friends list so that they can build a team and do as they please.

Maybe you misunderstood something, I don't want weak players to be allowed to do sorties, especially on public. But there are no restrictions now, only that the warframe have to be rank 30 and they have to be past Second Dream (as you said). I think we should have restrictions that prevent weak players to do sorties at least in public. And a Conclave rating like system would be good for that. (With the requirement of max level, maybe even on weapons, so nobody would go there for XP farming.

[MagPrime]

Just now, Shikkoku said:

Maybe you misunderstood something, I don't want weak players to be allowed to do sorties, especially on public. But there are no restrictions now, only that the warframe have to be rank 30 and they have to be past Second Dream (as you said). I think we should have restrictions that prevent weak players to do sorties at least in public. And a Conclave rating like system would be good for that. (With the requirement of max level, maybe even on weapons, so nobody would go there for XP farming.

No, I understood. 

However, the definition of weak is subjective.  Should we use yours exclusively?  You mention low MR players, so I assume your definition of weak is tied to ones mods.  A friend of mine views a weak player as someone that doesn't strategize, while another defines a weak player as someone who doesn't conform to the meta. 

Who's right? 

Who's definition should we use?

My suggestion negates the need to define any kind of weakness and simply provides alternatives that could appeal to a wider portion of the player base, because it provides more freedom.

[Jiminez_Burial]

4 hours ago, Shikkoku said:

In some occasions rank 0 warframes can be much stronger than rank 30 ones... (MR 20 + 5 forma + potato vs. MR 2 + 0 forma + no potato) So if we want to stop weaklings do sorties a Rating system which takes into account what mods you have on your WF and on your weapons would be better than, no max ranked frames... I mean you can go unmodded in the current system, and you would die constantly making it annoying for others... 

Yes rank 0 frames can be better modded based on MR, forma and reactor, but they still don't have any abilities other than an unranked 1st.