New Player Experience: Thoughts from a 3rd time beginner

[MacGraeme]

Greetings!

One thing I don't expect you(Warframe Devs) get much from your loyal player base, the vast majority of whom are not new players, is feedback on the new player experience.  And most new players are probably not yet invested enough to find the forums and provide feedback.

However, the new player experience is critical to perception of the game for the wider audience of people who have not yet played it and who might give it a try, or spread their impressions by word of mouth.

I believe with a much improved New Player Experience, Warframe could reach a far larger audience and receive the recognition it truly deserves.

So here are my thoughts and suggestions.

I come at this as a "third time beginner".  That's right, I have started playing Warframe twice before, once on PC, once on Console, and now again on PC.

Each time, I could sense the immense care that went into the game design. I could taste (barely) the potential joy that would come once I had mastered the mechanics of the parkour movement systems.  I could just feel the depth of game play waiting for me, even as I was overwhelmed with options in the armory and market, with no idea what to do.

But... the learning curve, and perhaps the absence of a compelling "hook" in the initial questline, along with competing life priorities, ended up with me dropping the game before doing more than lightly scratch the surface.

I am writing this precisely because I have that very strong feeling that this is an incredible game, a strong interest in game design, and despite being a 3rd time beginner, I feel a strange passion and affinity for what Warframe represents, in terms of its development team semi-independent "underdog" status, free to play model, etc.  Plus the gorgeous aeshetics.

I'd like to see Warframe reach a greater audience.

tl;dr

In very broad tl;dr terms, here are my suggestions:

1) Make revamping the new player experience a high priority. (draw in those Destiny players looking for the game Destiny should have been!)

2) Make the initial story exciting and dramatic -- a real "hero's quest" springboard to draw a player in and launch them into the greater game beyond.

3) Make the tutorial aspects of the initial missions better, much better -- a player completely new the control style, whether on PC or Console, should get a chance to feel they "get the hang of it" before being thrown into the fire, so to speak.

Below I expand on #2, and #3:

#3 first... because it is easier (plus I actually have a story for #2)...

Basic skill "Mini-games" 

The idea is to give the player a place/situation in which to practice the basic moves over and over, in a motivated way.  How is this different from the current tutorial mission(s)?  Presently, I see a sign saying "press this or that key(s) to do X" and there may or may not be one obvious obstacle or target of that action. And while I *could* go back and repeat it over and over... that does not fit with the sense of urgency to reach the mission objective.

I recall that there is some sort of training room... maybe it is a virtual training room... (I haven't reached it yet this time around... that's how early days it is right now).

What I recall about the training room was each maneuver only really needed to be completed once, maybe twice, then you were done. Check box marked off, so to speak.

The things is, half the time I accomplished what was asked more by accident than anything, so I didn't really come away feeling like I knew how the maneuver worked.

Here is what I'd like to see, taking "bullet jump" as an example: maybe a whole series of obstacles, walls with holes to bullet jump through.  Maybe the holes are lightly shielded, so I need to speed/momentum of a bullet jump to make it through. Then maybe some floating target-org-thingies that I have to hit to "pop" with bullet jumps... and they get faster, smaller, and dodge more over time.  Create a story reason why the player might take some time, along with an implied scoring mechanic, so that it becomes a mini-game in and of itself.

Create a "mini game" for each basic maneuver -- even jump, double-jump, slide, and so forth.  (See story ideas below for how this might fit)  And ultimately combine them into one mini-game.

"But isn't this what the early missions already do?"

Not really.  The missions put presssure on the player to finish (even thought he player could ignore that pressure).  The various little tutorial signs telling the player about various button presses to do various actions leave much to be desired.  I see it, try it once, and move on.  It is very easy to forget about the various skills and finish the first 5-10 missions almost with nothing but sprint, melee and using just one of the ranged weapons.

I believe I completed Vor's Prize in my last incarnation as a Warframe Noob, and really did not feel like I had a good sense of the basic mechanics. 

One thing I distinctly recall, and is happening again -- I completely forget about my special ability, "Ability A".  Part of the problem here is it is easy to drain energy, then by the time I replenish energy, I have forgotten the abilit exist.  Plus it is entirely unnecessary for completing the first missions.

• [EDIT]: Tutorial levels desperately need to provide numerous blue "energy balls" (not sure what they are called), so new player gets a chance to practice using the ablities!!
  • The inability to recharge is prime reason I tend to forget the abililties exist.  And the abilities tend to be useless since I never get a chance to practice with them.

Now, back to those minigames...

The idea behind the mini-games is they would be fun enough in and of themselves that even experienced players may want to come back and maximize their score -- perhaps just for the sake of being on a "high score" list, like arcade games of old.

But more importantly, it gives new players a chance to become competent at the controls, at their own pace, while still having fun. (again, see below for how this can make sense in a story and lore context, so that the mini-games are not just arbitrary and unrelated to anything else)

 

Need Real In-Game Tutorials/Walkthroughs for Modding, Arsenal, Market & other Ship Systems

This one is more self-explanatory, but, for example, opening the Modding station or Arsenal for the first time (even when it is the 3rd first time) is overwhelming and far from obvious what to do.

This time around, I confused the Modding Station with the Arsenal.  Why?  In part because the "tutorial" button from the Modding station told me about things to do that could only be done in the Arsenal! I spent I don't know how long in the foundry trying to find the "Auto Install" because that's what the messages tutorial for the Modding station told me to do. All the while I had Orbis breathing down my neck every five seconds about how imperative it was that I do some upgrades.  "I'm trying! So f---ing shut up already or tell me something useful about how and where!"

There are similar issues with the market.  Too much information and too many things to look at... mostly irrelevant to new players.  Maybe give some of these stations a "beginner" and "advanced" view, with the beginner only showing things a brand new player is likely to need or be interested in.  Let the player decide when they are ready to see more. And have Orbis give a step by step visual walkthrough of (for example in the Marketplace, how to buy things, what difference currencies actually are and how to use them, and so forth).

 

Communications & Multiplayer

• By default, for a new player, do or do not...
  • Do not show chat log before I know what is going on or how to even access it!
    • Provide an in-game walk through at an appropriate time about using the chat features
  • Do not throw new players into missions with random matchmaking.
    • By default, make it solo play,
      • but prominently display a button giving the option to be matched with other players.
  • Do put players into a "pre-game chat room" before jumping into the mission, when they are using matchmaking
    • This should be a prominent window... obviously the next thing to pay attention to.  
    • Let players talk a bit and decide if they have compatible play style before clicking a button to start the mission.
      • I might want to say "hey, I'm a noob, and I want to experience the mission... might slow you down unless you are the same"
    • Do give players a preference screen when they turn on matchmaking...
      • Matchmaker then puts together people with compatible options:
        • "High skill, mad dash to completion"
        • "Willing to guide new players at their own pace"
        • "looking for a guide, not a rush/carry"
        • "Help me level quickly -- Need a high skill carry"
        • "Willing to carry n00bs who want to rush through missions quickly"
        • "I want to experience the story, take time to see what's going on"
  • Do provide a Recruitment UI instead of chat channel
    • I can't be the only one that finds a barrage of LFM message mostly useless
    • A UI would provide...
      • A variety of checkbox preferences for what is being looked for by recruiters and recruitees
      • A matchmaker that can be activated and will randomly through people who's preferences match into a chat room
        • player can then decide to group up, join clan, or whatever
        • ...or leave chat room to be randomly matched with someone else (or some-clan-else) with matching preferences
        • it's a bitt of a "chat-roulette" but with strong bias to matching pre-selected preferences

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Interlude

Yes, this is actually quite a long post.  And I find it strange that I care enough about this game I've barely played to write this... but so be it.  Says something about the impression the game makes on me, at least.

"Isn't that an argument why the new player experience is fine?"

Not really. I think I'm a bit unusual in this regard.  Also, I did give up on it twice already.  However, I do think I am evidence of an as yet much larger untapped base of players who might come to love this game.

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Opening Story -- Tutorial Questline & Dramatic "Hook"

This opening quest line just came to me in the last few hours. I hope you will agree this would be a good story for a new player to run through and really get excited about playing the game.

Keep in mind, that, in addition to the "dojo" (see below) all of these missions should include some obstacles/objectives that *require* the use of specific movement & combat abilities to bypass/complete.  Maybe the player has to wall climb to reach a certain checkpoint, or there is an enemy or object that must be destroyed with a specific attack. Or there can be low passageways that require sliding, because you cannot get through them moving slowly in a crouch.  Other places where slow moving, crouch/stealth is essential, rather than just being on way of going about it.

The "Old Master"(see below) will be crucial in reminding the player of the needed abilities.  And there should be obvious UI element the player can pop up to remind of the key combos needed to perform the maneuver needed at any particular point.

There is dialog throughout this quest line establishing the "Old Master" as a mentor figure for the player, creating an emotional connection.

The drama and "hook" to really grab players attention comes in step 8 (spoilers!), the penultimate mission of the quest line.

0. Setup

Player selects their initial warframe.

Player is put into a setup wizard to...

1. Quickly select keybinding from among a few presets (the current defaults are terrible!) 
   • This will include an image of virtual mouse/keyboard or game controller, with keys/buttons clearly labelled, giving player an immediate idea what they can do in game
     • Only show most important controls for new player
     • Make it obvious how player can bring up this screen any time to remind them of the controls (and what abilities/moves exist!)
2. Make sure mouse/joystick sensitivities & orientation are comfortable for player before they are thrown into any action and forced to hit [escape] and go to the options menu.
3. Teach the player other important basics, like how to bring up the options menu, how to pause game, and so forth
4. Other things I am not thinking of right at the moment...

1.  Prolog

Instead of player being awakened by Lotus moments before the Greneer arrive, the player is awkened by the Old Master tenno.  The Old Master was following a lead that the Greneer were after something important, and wanted to find it before they did... and it turns out to have been the player (it might also be an object near where the player was trapped/sleeping).  The Old Master tells the player that Greneer are on the way, and they have to make their way back to the Tenno fleet.  The Old Master is damaged, so most of the time with only be able to give advice as the two travel together to escape their current predicament.

The Old Master calls the player "Young Tenno"... even though technically the player is older -- has been sleeping for longer than the Old Master has been alive!  But the player was *young* when trap and put into sleep/stasis, so is effectively still young.

2. Mission 1

Player and Old Master must leave the underground labyrinth in which Player had been asleep/trapped.  This is largely a movement based mission.  Maybe a few "local" enemies or security bots to fight.  If there is to be fighting, Old Master gives player his own melee weapon -- melee only fighting in this mission.  Maybe use melee to destroy some inanimate objects, open containers to collect some items/resources.  (This is not the "mini-game" I spoke of earlier.  That is coming)

Obstacles should be designed to *require* use of specific maneuvers to overcome. The Old Master will demonstrate moves, returning to player to demonstrate again if player is sitting their confused. Popup messages will explain the button presses needed, while the Old Master explains in a Lore-friendly in-world manner.

Old Master dialog: humorously teases a slow player, sometimes a little impatient, always wise.

Goal of this mission:  give player a real feel for the potential fun of the movement options.  

There should be at least one very large wall (vertically and horizontally) which must be wall-walked to get past a chasm or lava floor... but it should be big and easy to wall-climb up/down/left/right/etc... jump between parallel walls... big enough for the player to just wall climb every which way just for the fun of it, much to the impatient annoyance of the Old Master.

3. Mission 2:  The Old Master's Ship

Old Master says ship damaged and crash landed, but it has a DARSys (Diagnotics, Analysis, and Repair System) he can use to figure out why the Greneer are so interested in the Player tenno. This is a fairly easy overland journey, with modest fighting against some sort of "local scavengers".  No Greneer yet.

At the ship, the Old Master hooks player up to the DARSys. And Player enters the Virtual Dojo.

4. Mission 3: Virtual Dojo  (here is the first introduction to the tutorial/practice "Mini-Games")

The Old Master explains that Player needs to engage in the tests in the Virtual Dojo so the DARSys can gather data and do its analysis.  The Dojo will present the player with repetitive challenges that require basic movement and combat skills.

For purposes of story progression, a reasonably skilled player would only need a few minutes to meet the "data requirements". But any player might find the Dojo fun enough in and of itself to stay there quite a while.

Player will see a tally of "Cybernetic Datapoints Gathered" (or some other techno-babble like that).  It does not take long before that DARSys has enough "data points" for analysis.  However, it becomes obvious that the data points are an implicit "score" that a player may wish to increase for the fun of it.  As the challenges become more difficult, the points for completing steps, hitting targets, etc., become progressively larger, score goes up faster at higher level challenges within the dojo.

Later, when the player gets their own ship, it will have a similar Virtual Dojo.

In the virtual reality, time moves much faster than in the real world, so player can spend as much time practicing in their as they wish, without violating the general sense of urgency of the story.

• The Challenges may include things like (not a complete list):
  • Bullet jumps through progressively smaller/harder to reach holes.
  • Bullet jumps to hit mid air targets.
    • ...then moving targets
    • ...faster, smaller moving targets...
  • Slide under low opening in walls
    • moving walls?
    • slide under a panel closing down before it gets too low to slide under
      • A series of such panels down an "infinite" hallway (this is a virtual reality, after all)
        • must get through as many as possible 
        • Each closes a little bit faster than the last one
    • other sliding challenges that get progressively faster/smaller...
  • Jump across gaps
    • moving platforms
  • Wall Climbing...
  • Aim Gliding...
  • Basic combat -- Dojo provides access to several virtual weapons
    • melee stationary, later moving, later faster, drone tagets
      • Objects on ground which must be destroyed by "slam" moves
      • Progressively hard to get to... needing wall climb & other skills to get into position for the slams
      • eventual these littlel "turtles" start moving...
        • ...then they get faster...
    • targets that require specific melee moves
      • i.e. slam, etc.
    • target practice with primary & secondary weapons
      • different targets/challenges require different weapons
    • Parrying practice...
      • harmless drones shooting from all angles... have to turn & block repeatedly
      • require movement or shooting in between blocking
      • important: challenge/tasks/opponents must be designed so parry is *required* to complete the task (same goes for all skill challenges in this dojo)
  • Challenges which require using Warfram energy & abilities:
    • tasks which require charged melee attacks
    • tasks which require using the first warframe special ability
    • maybe even later abilities, depending on how much Player levels up through this starting quest line
  • Obstacle course the player runs for time
    • increasing in difficulty, with moving platforms & targets that get faster after each successful run-through, slower after each failure

Alternate or additional Idea:  Instead of a virtual dojo, the quite large Old Master's ship, though crash landed and mostly destroyed/inaccessible, might have a very large real dojo room. This dojo room might be tilted at an angle. Maybe the player's ship can have its own large training room too?

5. Escape the Virtual Dojo (repeatable until step 8)

After the DARSys completes its analysis, the Old Master informs player something encrypted is buried deep in player's mind. It is obviously something extremely important from long ago. It is not clear at all how the player was trapped/put into sleep, let along why.  It is imperative that the player not fall into Greneer hands, but also that they unlock the encrypted data.

When player is ready to leave Virtual Dojo, they will be confronted by computer virus avatars preventing player from leaving. Old Master informs player that it appears a Greneer computer virus has hacked into the ship's systems.  Old Master can activate security measures to weaken the computer viruses making it possible for the player to defeat them. Player must fight viral avatars, reach a designated exit portal within the virtual dojo, and do a "hacking" minigame to finally leave.

Old Master says for now it is safe to continue using the DARSys and Virtual Dojo for practice, because they know they can defeat the computer viruses to get back out.  But the Greneer know about the player and will be coming for them soon.  He is also not sure how long the computer security of the ship can fend off the hacking viruses.

Player may connect to the DARSys at any time, re-entering the Virtual Dojo for more "data analysis", practicing skills.  The computer virus avatars only act to prevent the player from leaving the virtual reality (they want to trap the player there).

Old Master's ship can provide player with real starter Primary & Secondary ranged weapons, and a place to practice with them.

Old Master's ship becomes a hub for next few missions.

6. Several Missions...(in no particular order)

Old Master's ship becomes a hub for next few missions, which are all reached by walking overland from the shipwreck.

There will be "local" enemies, and Greneer patrols will also start showing up as enemies.  The Greneer are suspiciously too easy to defeat. Why aren't the Greneer coming in more overwhelming force?

• Find items to keep the Old Master alive... (could be more than one such mission)
  • Old Master's condition is deteriorating...
    • cannot go with player on some of these missions...(particularly this one)
  • ...there is something the Old Master is not saying about his state of health. He is very vague about what the devices he needs are actually for.
• Find items to help fully reactivate Player's warframe. (could be more than one such mission)
  • The Old Master will let player use the partially damaged (limited) Arsenal & Mod Station, and perhaps other systems on his crashed ship.
    • Old Master will give the player the walkthrough/tutorial on how to use these systems
      • The Market and Comms will not yet be available
      • A damaged/limited Lore archive might be available
  • This mission sequence may be what activates Players Abilities A through D (or at least some of them)
• Find items/devices that will help with decrypting the information locked in Player's brain.
  • Alternately, find whatever it is that was the focus of the player's original mission, and the focus of the present Greneer search
• Establish communications with Lotus (could be more than on such mission to complete all necessary steps)
  • activate some comm-link towers, retrieve some devices/components
    • Lotus will be overjoyed to be back in contact with the Old Master (he has been offline for months, at least)
      • Lotus & Old Master are clearly quite fond of one another, with a history going way back...
    • Lotus is also overjoyed about discovery & awakening of the Player Tenno
      • Begins researching archives to find more clues about Player's original mission
    • Lotus is very worried, but very vague about the Old Master's condition
• Other related missions...

7. Locate the Player's Old Ship...

Lotus is scanning old historical archives to learn more about what happened to Player.  She believe players ship might still be in area and functional. Needs certain towers or other technical equipment in the area repaired/activated in order to locate the ship.

Greneer patrols start showing up as enemies in greater numbers and more frequently.  They are still suspiciously too easy to defeat. Why aren't the Greneer coming in overwhelming force?

8. Run to the Ship, Part 1

The Greneer finally seem to be closing in large numbers.  The Old Master (clearly getting worse...) and Player must make a run for it.

The old master is struggling with something -- clearly the problem is mental. The player must use actions/items to help the Old Master limp along, keep the old master moving.

They come to a large tunnel or passage which leads to where the ship is and...

Spoiler

 

A massive gate slams just before they can reach it.  Then a probe drone flies down, projecting a beam onto the Old Master, who finally succumbs to Captain Vor's virus implant!!

Paralyzed & struggling against the virus, the Old Master finally tells the player what is going on, apologizing for not explaining sooner.  "Pride!! I thought I could fight it!!"

Three more probe drones arrive focusing beams on the Old Master, who then attacks the player.  "We only need your head!" says Captain Vor, speaking through the Old Master.

Player cannot hope to defeat the Old Master, but can evade him and try to destroy probe drones.  Old Master is most powerful(as an enemy) and most aggressive with 4 or more probe drones focusing control beams on him. Fewer drones means he can resist the control more and so is less aggressive to the player or less effective in attacks.

Dialog from Old Master and Lotus indicate he is still fighting against the control of the Greneer, which is the only reason Player is still alive.

Old Master tells Player to kill him.  Lotus objects: "No, we can save you!"

But Player will find Old Master is too powerful to defeat directly.

Destroyed drones will respawn after a short time.

If player can kill all drones, so temporarily no drones are putting beams on the Old Master, then Old Master will be able to communicate more fully, though parallyzed struggling against the virus.

When this happens, Old Master tells player to retrieve Intraframe Override Injector (or some such techno-babble) and use it on him.  

At this point Lotus interjects, "No!  You can't!!"  But Old Master insists it is the only way. Neither tells the player what they mean.

At this point Greneer are entering the zone and player must fight them as well.  By the time Player retrieves the device, there is a full set of probes focusing beams on the Old Master. Player must kill drones again, then apply the Intraframe Override Injector to the Old Master and do a "hack" minigame. Hacking must be done while Old Master is free of control beams.

Lotus, almost a plaintive whisper: "Please, No...there must be another way..."

Once the hack is complete, player hear's a robotic version of the Old Master's voice "Control Override Engaged. Self destruct mechanism armed." An alert sound also starts emanating from the Old Master, and a pulsating particle effect.

The Old Master starts moving toward the giant gate. More probe drones use control beams to slow or stop him. One drone slows him. Two drones make him crawl. It takes three probe drones to stop him completely.  But four drones make him attack the player if the player gets too close.  "Just keep killing these damn drones, Young Tenno. I'll do the rest!"

As the Old Master makes progress, more dialog:  "My battle is ended, young Tenno, but yours has just begun. You must escape!"

If player can keep drones off the Old Master, he will reach the gate. In the robotic voice:  "Command override. Self destruct activated."

Lotus "No....."

Old Master (normal voice):  "Young Tenno! Run!"

New checkpoint -- somewhere far from the Gate  behind a barrier.

Reach checkpoint: BOOM!

9. The Way is Open

Knocked unconscious, the player awakens some minutes later.  Fortunately, Player recovers before more Greneer arrive in the area, which is now wrecked.

Lotus, unable to hide the grief in her voice -- the Old Master's death is a very personal loss for her: "Tenno, do not let [Old Master's real name] death be in vain.  You must reach your ship and escape. First you need to retrieve a power core..."

• First objective: power core for the ship.
  • This leads to a trap.  Captain Vor anticipated the need for the power core, and "...I always have a plan B, a plan C..."
  • The trap is a room set up with equipment that puts the player in an energy force bubble of some kind, which is slowly crystalizing around the player.
  • Captain Vor attaches a virus injector to the player, and all seems lost:  "This time the virus will run its course on an imprisoned a tenno!"
  • Captain Vor gives orders to the Greneer soldiers: "When the Korel field fully crystalizes, bring him to the transport."
    • ...then leaves.

Lotus: "I cannot lose another tenno!  I won't lose you!  [The Old Master's real name]'s death will not be pointless!  Sorry Tenno, but I'm activating an uncontrolled energy surge in your warframe. It is your only chance..."

BOOM!

Player regains consciousness moments later.  Greneer soldiers are stunned around the chamber.

 

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The remainder of this last mission of the arc plays out much like the current first mission. Player must avoid a too-powerful Captain Vor, reach the ship, activate it, defend it for a while, and finally can escape on the ship.

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The Vor's Prize quest line can now begin...

• difficulty of the missions will need to be increased
• it will need some story tweaks to accommodate this new background

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That wraps up my thoughts, suggestions & feedback from a 3rd time new player.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2017 by MacGraeme

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

 

[BlackCoMerc]

Nice ideas here.

I would add: do away with mk1 weapons. These were probably needed to slow Progress in the early days. Now, they're just...sort of insulting. I mean, deliberately gimping new players like some cut rate mobile game is bad.

But new players don't KNOW these are gimped weapons, as the game doesn't say so...so they might invest in these weapons, utterly wasting their time and maybe plat. So drop the "starter weapon" idea.

[MadMadMario]

5 hours ago, MacGraeme said:

(draw in those Destiny players looking for the game Destiny should have been!)

Interesting you said that, I started played warframe becasue destiny was such a failure to my expectations, and I know plenty of people with my own experience.

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, MadMadMario said:

Interesting you said that, I started played warframe becasue destiny was such a failure to my expectations, and I know plenty of people with my own experience.

Agreed.

Kept trying to double jump and slide. Plodding along in shooters is such a disappointment after Warframe.

If Warframe had Destiny's tighter balance and smaller gap between high and low levels, it would be the greatest action game ever made.

[MacGraeme]

5 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Nice ideas here.

I would add: do away with mk1 weapons. These were probably needed to slow Progress in the early days. Now, they're just...sort of insulting. I mean, deliberately gimping new players like some cut rate mobile game is bad.

But new players don't KNOW these are gimped weapons, as the game doesn't say so...so they might invest in these weapons, utterly wasting their time and maybe plat. So drop the "starter weapon" idea.

I can say that as a new player... I had no idea the weapons were gimped... though I would expect they were "lowest level".  But apparently you mean they are worse than just a step down from the next best?

The enemies in the initial levels also seem to be gimped then... as they remain quite easy.

[MacGraeme]

3 hours ago, MadMadMario said:

Interesting you said that, I started played warframe becasue destiny was such a failure to my expectations, and I know plenty of people with my own experience.

I have played a lot more Destiny, mainly because I had family who wanted me to play with them, and that is the main reason I stopped playing Warframe on console in the 2nd time as a warframe beginner.  Could not convince my nephews to try warframe, even though it was free.  One nephew *had* tried it in very very early days (first year it came out?).

I had had just enough of a taste of how movement worked in warframe, that I kept being disappointed by the mobility limitations in Destiny.

[MadMadMario]

7 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

But new players don't KNOW these are gimped weapons, as the game doesn't say so...so they might invest in these weapons, utterly wasting their time and maybe plat. So drop the "starter weapon" idea.

I saw a mastery rank 4 player say he put a catalyst on mk1-braton.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Gotta agree. Played the beginning of the game on numerous accounts over the years, and there's quite a few issues which turn off new players.

1 - MK1 weapons - Seriously, there's like 300+ weapons ,why you have to give us gimped versions of existing weapons. I mean, just give player a regular braton, paris, bo, skana, lato... All of these are inferior to their Prime versions anyway... It just feels insulting.

2 - Damaged mods. I get that DE uses these mods to "teach" players what mods they should look for later down the road, but most of these mods are really bad, players waste tons of endo and credits leveling these gimped versions of mods... Sure it's better than starting with no mods at all , but would it really kill de to give basic stuff like pressure point, serration, hornet strike, vitality, redirection to new players. Same with archwing mods. I litterally have leveled two archwings to LVL 30 on my alternate PC account and I've yet to get a single vitality or shield mod.... What the hell... These should be default mods given when you build your first archwing.

3 - No stances or auras - Not only does this gimp the amount of mod points players can put on their frames, this also doesn't help showcase the melee combat depth. Each starter melee weapon should have a starter stance mod (Maybe not the best stance in the game, but a stance nevertheless)... And the players should get a base aura by default,, even if it's a meh one. Just give enemy radar or something.

4 - No innate energy restoration and no ways to restore health by default - Players are throwing into this world with no way to periodically regain energy, and no way to regain life. This is especially bad for melee oriented builds , as if you are in melee range, you're talking damage, and you pretty much need some form of health restore. Heck, maybe just give life strike as a starter mod.

5 - No catalyst or reactors from the start. Yes, you do get starter plat, but the fact new player don't even get these and they have to wait for somewhat rare alerts and gift of the lotus events isn't exactly the best way to motivate players. Gifting a player a free catalyst and reactor would go a long way, and it could be tutorialised to explain how these work too.

6 - MR locks, junctions, resource costs and credit costs for everything - The game really feels like a huge roadblock the minute you finish the first quest to defeat vor. You get all these somewhat cryptic tasks like defeating eximus and opening relics, you don't really understand what MR is and how to raise it, 90% of the weapons you see in the store are MR locked, everything requires ressources from other planets you haven't unlocked yet and cost huge amount of credits, which takes a while to accumulate. Even worse, when you do manage to get a weapon to cook in the foundry, you realize there's a long time to wait. Even if you hear about an alert, chances are the planet/node for the thing you needed will not be unlocked, making you miss said alert... Really feels bad.

7 - It's hard to shake Impression everything is paid (which is kinda true) - As you start to explore, you have nothing. You start to notice all the mods you need cost plat, quite a few of the frames you want are retired and cost alot of plat, character, weapon, sentinel ,animal, archwing slots cost money, that catalysts and reactors and almost mandatory and that you will never get enough for all frames without buying some, heck ,even colors are paid. This will turn off many players simply because it feels like pay to win... And it kinda is, because unless you spend money on the game, you're left with not enough slots to grow your account, which in turns means you won't meet the mastery requirements for better gear.

8 - Extremely slow leveling on early star chart planets- Nobody is playing there, you barely get any Xp, it takes ages to get a single frame and gear set to lvl 30. I'm not saying you should put an XP farm on earth, but many people will get turned out when they hear the proper XP farms are located on planets at the deep end of the solar system.

 

Edited September 24, 2017 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[MacGraeme]

17 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

4 - No innate energy restoration and no ways to restore health by default - Players are throwing into this world with no way to periodically regain energy, and no way to regain life. This is especially bad for melee oriented builds , as if you are in melee range, you're talking damage, and you pretty much need some form of health restore. Heck, maybe just give life strike as a starter mod.

As a new player, this one is *HUGE*... suruprised I did not emphasize it more in my OP.

In my OP I did mention how I forget I have have special abliities... and this is a big reason why. I use the abilities a couple times, have no energy, and the blue energy balls are so rare.

I don't get to practice using the ability, because I can only use it a 2 or 3 times then it will be a long time before I can even use it again, and by then I have probably forgotten it.

Add to this that the energy bar is this tiny little thing in the lower right corner of screen -- I can barely see it, and nothing in the tutorials calls attention to it.  For a long time I would have no idea how much energy I had.  Plus because those energy balls are blue, I tended to assume that they replenished shields or something.  Very hard for a new player to even know what they are good for, and since I never get to practice using abilities, for a long time they really are not good for anything.

The tutorial levels should provide lots of blue energy balls for players to recharge and practice abilities.

[MacGraeme]

18 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

6 - MR locks, junctions, resource costs and credit costs for everything - The game really feels like a huge roadblock the minute you finish the first quest to defeat vor. You get all these somewhat cryptic tasks to defeat vor, you don't really understand what MR is and how to raise it, 90% of the weapons you see in the store are MR locked, everything requires ressources from other planets you haven't unlocked yet and cost huge amount of credits, which takes a while to accumulate. Even worse, when you do manage to get a weapon to cook in the foundry, you realize there's a long time to wait. Even if you hear about an alert, chances are the planet/node for the thing you needed will not be unlocked, making you miss said alert... Really feels bad.

Speaking of "locked" items... don't show them to new players.

It is overwhelming to go into Market or Arsenal and see a million locked items and options.  And yes, it easily makes on think everything cool in the game requires $$$$.

Have a beginner mode in Arsenal & Market which only shows things reasonably accessible to player without $$$.

And make sure more things *are* accessible.

Have some starter items & mods that can be purchased with credits, not $$$.  And not just blueprints for most basic items.

AND... at least give player a "trade-in" option for all the 3 starter warframes (maybe even a wider selection).  New player should not have to grind just to try out a few different frames.

Same for starter weapons.  At a minimum, once player gets to the ship, all starter items should be in ships inventory.

[VoxGray]

@MacGraeme Much of the tutorial is the way it is for very specific reasons. Much of what you suggest story-wise goes against what you would learn later on in the game. A few of your suggestions are rather important to take note of (the lack of mods and energy regen are huge), but most everything else is already taken care of.

I do agree that the player should start out solo, and this is specifically because the early missions are perfect for teaching new players if they play solo. Earth's tiles are built to encourage exploration and teach the basics of the parkour system, and sending the player in solo would get rid of the sense of urgency that comes with running with a squad, allowing them time to explore and practice to their leisure.

As to your complaint about starting equipment, a precursory search through the arsenal will show you a few weapons purchasable directly with credits, most of which are the "standard" versions of the starting weapons. While better direction should be given to new players in regards to finding them, options are given.

Regarding Warframes themselves, I have to wholeheartedly disagree. Warframes are your most potent tools, will be your heaviest investment, and have the most dramatic effect on your playstyle and capabilities. It should in no way be easy for a new player to access this kind of power of change. Currently, we have an intentional exception to this rule: the tank Warframe, Rhino. His parts are obtained by defeating the Jackal boss on Venus. Rhino is intentionally placed on an early planet and gated behind an insignificant boss so that players can quickly access a playstyle not afforded to them by any of the starter Frames, and see how large a difference their choice of Warframe can make.

Above all else, though, Region chat exists for a reason. One of the biggest aspects of Warframe is how tight-knit and welcoming the community is, and many players, especially those at higher mastery ranks, would be more than happy to take a new player under their wing to get them started. Both story and reality support one fact above all: We are Tenno, we are a community together, and we will stand by each others' sides to see even the meekest among us to victory.

[BlackCoMerc]

2 hours ago, EmissaryOfInfinity said:

@MacGraeme Much of the tutorial is the way it is for very specific reasons. Much of what you suggest story-wise goes against what you would learn later on in the game. A few of your suggestions are rather important to take note of (the lack of mods and energy regen are huge), but most everything else is already taken care of.

I do agree that the player should start out solo, and this is specifically because the early missions are perfect for teaching new players if they play solo. Earth's tiles are built to encourage exploration and teach the basics of the parkour system, and sending the player in solo would get rid of the sense of urgency that comes with running with a squad, allowing them time to explore and practice to their leisure.

As to your complaint about starting equipment, a precursory search through the arsenal will show you a few weapons purchasable directly with credits, most of which are the "standard" versions of the starting weapons. While better direction should be given to new players in regards to finding them, options are given.

Regarding Warframes themselves, I have to wholeheartedly disagree. Warframes are your most potent tools, will be your heaviest investment, and have the most dramatic effect on your playstyle and capabilities. It should in no way be easy for a new player to access this kind of power of change. Currently, we have an intentional exception to this rule: the tank Warframe, Rhino. His parts are obtained by defeating the Jackal boss on Venus. Rhino is intentionally placed on an early planet and gated behind an insignificant boss so that players can quickly access a playstyle not afforded to them by any of the starter Frames, and see how large a difference their choice of Warframe can make.

Above all else, though, Region chat exists for a reason. One of the biggest aspects of Warframe is how tight-knit and welcoming the community is, and many players, especially those at higher mastery ranks, would be more than happy to take a new player under their wing to get them started. Both story and reality support one fact above all: We are Tenno, we are a community together, and we will stand by each others' sides to see even the meekest among us to victory.

Sorry, but you can't make the claim Everything is on the way it is, then say that's partly due to "search tools" and the generosity of region chat.

That new players HAVE to resort to those things IS the Problem.

And Mk1 weapons are an insult. There is no longer any reason those weapons should exist.

[VoxGray]

5 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Sorry, but you can't make the claim Everything is on the way it is, then say that's partly due to "search tools" and the generosity of region chat.

That new players HAVE to resort to those things IS the Problem.

And Mk1 weapons are an insult. There is no longer any reason those weapons should exist.

I never mentioned search tools. I said to look through yohr Arsenal. As in the place where you equip weapons. You'll see the Braton, Kunai, Bo, and the like there, purchasable purely for credits, no MK1 downgrade involved.

I do agree that MK1 weapons are a bit of a problem, given that objectively better weapons exist for the same cost.

And the fact that new players need to rely on other Tenno for assistance is almost unavoidable. Warframe has far more depth than most tutorials would be able to illustrate, short of having a Dark Souls level of investment in teaching "through show rather than tell."

 

And extrapolating from what you're saying here, I'm guessing you meant to say "you can't say everything is fine the way it is," in which case I don't believe that to be true at all. There are numerous issues with the new player experience that need addressed, particularly the early game dearth of mods and energy regeneration.

But the sweeping story changes you mentioned simply wouldn't fit with the currently established lore of Warframe, as you'd learn by playing through the remainder of the game.

The other points I specifically addressed are the only other points of contention I have with what you were saying. The early game is in no way "fine as it is," but it doesn't need the complete overhaul you seem to think it does. Some simple tweaks and a few additions are all that's really needed.

Edited September 25, 2017 by EmissaryOfInfinity

[BlackCoMerc]

4 hours ago, EmissaryOfInfinity said:

I never mentioned search tools. I said to look through yohr Arsenal. As in the place where you equip weapons. You'll see the Braton, Kunai, Bo, and the like there, purchasable purely for credits, no MK1 downgrade involved.

I do agree that MK1 weapons are a bit of a problem, given that objectively better weapons exist for the same cost.

And the fact that new players need to rely on other Tenno for assistance is almost unavoidable. Warframe has far more depth than most tutorials would be able to illustrate, short of having a Dark Souls level of investment in teaching "through show rather than tell."

 

And extrapolating from what you're saying here, I'm guessing you meant to say "you can't say everything is fine the way it is," in which case I don't believe that to be true at all. There are numerous issues with the new player experience that need addressed, particularly the early game dearth of mods and energy regeneration.

But the sweeping story changes you mentioned simply wouldn't fit with the currently established lore of Warframe, as you'd learn by playing through the remainder of the game.

The other points I specifically addressed are the only other points of contention I have with what you were saying. The early game is in no way "fine as it is," but it doesn't need the complete overhaul you seem to think it does. Some simple tweaks and a few additions are all that's really needed.

I think you're right here, actually. The early games doesnt need to be torn down and rebuilt. Just tweaked. Heavily, in places, but tweaked. 

A little more instruction. Maybe some time spent explaining the market, mastery rank and its effect on unlocking items. And the starter items have to go. Thats just a very bad foot to put forward. 

[MacGraeme]

On 9/25/2017 at 7:54 AM, EmissaryOfInfinity said:

@MacGraeme Much of the tutorial is the way it is for very specific reasons. Much of what you suggest story-wise goes against what you would learn later on in the game. A few of your suggestions are rather important to take note of (the lack of mods and energy regen are huge), but most everything else is already taken care of.

...

@EmissaryOfInfinity Re: story -- The details are not terribly import. The point is something much more dramatic is needed within the first 1-2 hours of play to grab players' attention and fuel excitement for adventures to come.  Once I've played through all the available story, I'm sure I could write something that would fit all the existing lore.  I did specifically write it in a way I thought had a reasonably chance of integrating seemlessly.  But I do not know (and no spoilers please!) what surprises might be down the road which might overturn some assumptions.

If the specific reasons you mention are about teaching the player how to play and not about the story, I would be interested if you could elaborate.

"most everything else is taken care of" ??   How so??  

I am here as a beginner precisely to give a perspective unlikely to be heard, before my perspective on the beginner experience is skewed by having even partially mastered the game.

The game does not do a good job of teaching players how to play, in particular the mechanics. It does a bare minimum job of telling the player some buttons to press to do certain things.  A great deal of what many new players will need is just plain physical, mechanical practice.  The tutorial missions do not encourage this, and it will take some design effort to provide an environment which does.  The "virtual dojo" section of the story addresses many of my ideas there, which is probably poor structure insofar as my OP goes, mixing what is mainly a level/game design element with story idea.

Presently, I have to take it upon myself to just ignore a mission for a while just to practice things. I will say that at least there are often times and places where no enemies are around where it is possible to practice movement skills.

However, quite a few things would be much more easily practiced with targets that neither die nor kill you, so it is possible to do something over and over in rapid succession.

Maybe something like my "virtual dojo" is available later?  I would then say it needs to be available sooner.  I have seen a "dojo" on the map. I don't think I made it there on any of my prior play throughs.

About trading in the swapping for different beginner warframes. I entirely agree with the design philosophy that things which come cheap and easy are not valued by players.

But I already now have a "free" Frost Prime... just because I have Amazon/Twitch prime... so speaking of warframes not coming cheap...

Setting that aside, my point is about not locking a new player in to a major decision that they have almost no real basis for.  The could be *some* cost to the swap.  Here is one idea off the top of my head... there is a replayable, very early mission level, where you can go get the other beginner warframes, but the kicker is you have to leave your current one behind and you lose all levels earned.

You mention "Rhino"... see this is what I mean about new player perspective. I'm seriously talking 1-2 hours into the game, 5 hours tops.  Maybe someone already good at this type of game would get to the Rhino warframe in that time.  But the average player, particularly if not already familiar with the general controls & at least some of the mechanics, is not going to get that far that fast.

The focus of this thread is about retention of players who try the game and give it 1-2 hours.  Does the game draw them in or drive them away?

[MacGraeme]

On 9/25/2017 at 7:54 AM, EmissaryOfInfinity said:

As to your complaint about starting equipment, a precursory search through the arsenal will show you a few weapons purchasable directly with credits, most of which are the "standard" versions of the starting weapons. While better direction should be given to new players in regards to finding them, options are given.

Specifically on this point, it is the difficulty of finding those option which is the major problem.  But really there are very few options.

I have to scroll down through about 7 pages and 60 locked or $$$ items before I see the mk1-bo.  Why is the game showing brand new players so many inaccessible or costly (real$$) choices?  In all there are two credit-purchasable options out of about a hundred.  At a minimum, ,those should be on top of the list.

Another UI detail -- there is almost zero visual distinction between a "credit" price-tag and "platinum" price-tag.  So once I've seen 3 dozen platinum-only (or blueprint) weapons, my eyes are not going to notice the tiny difference between two tiny little blue-grey icons both on an orange tag on white text.  

Ideally those mk-1 items should be at the top, and possibly be the only things that show by default. Then put checkboxs to show "mastery locked" items and "platinum purchaseable".

Most new players will look at this an think they have to pay $$$ for anything good.

So maybe instead of showing a platinum prices at all.  Show a "blueprint" icon and a price for that. Then if they click item for more info, a platinum instant-purchase option can be shown.

[MacGraeme]

@BlackCoMerc 

23 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

I think you're right here, actually. The early games doesnt need to be torn down and rebuilt. Just tweaked. Heavily, in places, but tweaked. 

A little more instruction. Maybe some time spent explaining the market, mastery rank and its effect on unlocking items. And the starter items have to go. Thats just a very bad foot to put forward. 

The story was just something that poored out of me in the moment... sometimes I get creative like that.  No great claims to quality.

Much of what I'm suggesting could be dealt with within the existing Vor Prize quest line.

However, I have at least played through Vor's Prize once, and it is not a terribly compelling "hook". It is a "serviceable" tutorial quest line.

The important elements of the story arc are:  a mentor or helper character, who dies heroicly and dramatically in the penultimate scene.  This could be worked into the Vor's Prize qust line. There could be a helper/mentor character who has already been infected. That character's heroic sacrifice, rather than succumb to the mind control, would also make the need for the player to remove their Ascaris. That would of course involve quite a bit of work, yes.  But I'm aloud to dream.

I know there is more of the ship to be opened up later... but it would be nice even if there was just a training room open on the ship at the beginning, with various target & combat practice drones, obstacles, and so forth.

However, a virtual training room has the advantage of being "unlimited" in size... a never ending corridor of barriers with ever smaller holes to bullet jump through is possible in a virtual dojo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VoxGray]

@MacGraeme I will agree that some sort of larger practice area would be a nice addition to the player's early-game areas. Given that we know the Lotus can generate practice areas for tutorials and mastery tests, it wouldn't be too far-fetched for her to be able to generate a larger training course as well. This would hopefully be accessible from the Navigation screen, rather than the Codex (the tutorial simulations being accessed from the Codex always confused me...)

And regarding your "hook" dilemma...I'm sorry to say, but the hook is already there. Warframe is a game about growing in power and unlocking new abilities and resources. Much of the game is the grind. While this definitely hurts the broad appeal of the game, not grabbing many of the players who want something flashy right out of the box, to say the initial quest isn't representative of things to come is rather innacurate. It's a fragment of a vast swathe of expanded understandings and massive conquests to come later on, a dip into the pool, of you will. Warframe is a game of escalation, and it's up to the player to decide if they're willing to invest themselves in that. Regardless of what they do with the tutorial and introduction, things aren't going to really ramp up for you for a long time after that. You'll inevitably have some grinding to do to reach the more exciting portions of the game, and hooking players with some exciting intro sequence only to have them fizzle when they're left without narrative action for so long might actually be worse than where we're at now.

Of course, DE will hopefully resolve the lack of early momentum and storylines before too long, given thsy they've discussed bringing old events back as single player experiences. These events held stories themselves, and could very well serve as that early narrative progression we lack currently.

Edited September 27, 2017 by EmissaryOfInfinity