Sword stance (for Broken War)

[(XBOX)MuffinWizrad]

Anyone who has seen me post before knows I can be a little too verbose for my own good, so there's a quick TL;DR at the bottom for people who want to skip the bulk of this.

So I finished Second Dream a while ago and never really picked up the Broken War, but I started to dink around with it recently and I've kind of liked it. Not sure how it stacks up in the meta, but it seems like a pretty strong sword with the mods I've loaded onto it.

Looking on the wiki told me that the polarity of its stance slot supports 2 different stances: Crimson Dervish and one I've never heard of before called Vengeful Revenant. The very topical research of the stances that I did on my own suggested that Crimson Dervish is incredibly powerful on each strike, but it hurts your attack speed greatly, even with (Primed) Fury installed. Vengeful Revenant was faster and had something where one of its combos could follow up with a finisher, and if the finisher was survived the enemy would be knocked onto the ground for another finisher. Or... well... something like that.

But one of the most concerning differences I learned about was how it is (relatively) easy to get Dervish, but getting Revenant is akin to pulling teeth. And the projected prices for trading from warframe.market reflected that: Dervish goes for around 10-20p, whereas Revenant doesn't go for less than 70p.

I just wanted to get an idea of what the strengths/weaknesses of each stance are from other tenno who have actually used the stances. If there is a clear-cut winner between the two, I'd like to know that as well. It's worth keeping in mind that I don't really have a full mod setup for Broken War yet, it's pretty much just the standard Pressure Point, Fury, Reach stuff for now until I get it to higher ranks. Any recommendations on how to mod Broken War would be appreciated too.

TL;DR - Is there a clear-cut winner between the Crimson Dervish and Vengeful Revenant stances? What are the strengths/weaknesses of each stance? Is the high plat price for Revenant worth it if I want to trade for it? What's a decent build for Broken War (no Forma and no prime mods preferred)?

Edited October 1, 2017 by (XB1)MuffinWizrad

[Bryntwulf]

Vengeful Revenant is the clear-cut winner. While Dervish does have higher damage multipliers, Revenant isnt far behind, and also has plenty of vertical strikes, which gain the headshot multiplier in the hands of a skilled tenno. I would recommend saving up for it. 

If you need a quick 70p, Hydroid Prime and Nami Skyla Prime are both selling for a decent amount. Rivens from Sorties also tend to sell for ~100p if they're for a decent or popular weapon. Or, hek, if you're lucky enough to get a good mod for an unpopular weapon, you can still make a lot of plat on it. 

[METAHUMVN]

9 minutes ago, (Xbox One)MuffinWizrad said:

TL;DR - Is there a clear-cut winner between the Crimson Dervish and Vengeful Revenant stances? What are the strengths/weaknesses of each stance? Is the high plat price for Revenant worth it if I want to trade for it? What's a decent build for Broken War (no Forma and no prime mods preferred)?

First, Dervish vs. Revenant: I'm a master of swords and I've used both deeply. The truth is that Dervish does *do* more dmg when you go into melee-equipped mode. However, something about the stance just feels clunky. It kind of feels like you're swinging a sword the wrong way. On the other hand, Revenant feels AWESOME to use. It's a very quick, aggressive stance that features a lot of lunging and slashing, rather broad swings like Dervish does. Also, when you don't have melee mode equipped per se, you can still use the first Revenant combo. But when you use Dervish, you just end up using the regular right/left left/right slashing which is boring. Once you employ a Blood Rush/Body Count build, the dmg will build up quite fast. 

That brings us to my second point. 

You can make a strong build without using primed mods or forma for 90% of melee weapons if you have a matching stance mod. For the Broken War, I use the standard mod setup: Blood Rush, Body Count, Fury (you can even fit Primed Fury), Organ Shatter/True Steel (it depends on your choice), and Pressure Point (if you stick on a Primed Pressure Point you may need to forma). After that you can snap on a couple elemental mods or Lifestrike or something. 

 

[(XBOX)MuffinWizrad]

Alright, looks like I'm saving for Revenant then. And thanks for the tips on building the sword. I'll give it a shot.

[Xzorn]

If you're melee is built correctly; it's rare that you'll need more damage apposed to more survival.

Often you don't need to worry about two stances which are so closely competitive because you're going to have trouble staying alive before the difference is noticeable. I'm comparing this with some of the heaviest frames in the game as well. Frames like Rhino, Nekros, Trinity and Chroma. All of these massive eHP frames tend to even out in kill speed Vs survival. In fact I often use Tempo Royal over Cleaving because of the extra mobility and CC allowing you to get shot a little less.

Staying alive is more of a factor than squeezing damage with melee. I'd use whichever you can reliably do combos with and enjoy. It's not like Cyclone Kraken and those other machete stances where one is just light years beyond the others.

[(XBOX)MuffinWizrad]

Hey again folks. I wanted to come back and talk a bit more because after trying things out a bit I was starting to debate whether the usefulness of Vengeful Revenant was really worth the price. And I think I might end up doing text walls again. Sorry in advance.

Firstly, I have to clarify one major thing: I said it doesn't go for cheaper than 70p. I was wrong. I saw someone selling it on warframe.market for that cheap, but either they didn't know what they had or they were very generous. The actual lowest price is closer to 100-120p, with the majority of people asking 150p for it. Now that isn't a terribly high price, I can just run some vaults and sell the corrupted mods for 20-25p each. But all that work for this one very highly priced stance mod? That's what I'm not sure about.

I lucked out and got a hold of Crimson Dervish while fighting some grineer recently, and I'm honestly not sure if I need to worry about Revenant anymore. It is slow. I'll freely admit that. But every strike of the base combo is a 360. Every single one. And (with the mod setup I had, at least) every single standard strike on enemies ranged from 2000-4000 damage, with crits going into the 10000 zone. I wanted to test it out while poly farming with nekros (Assur, Uranus), and I was pretty pleasantly surprised. It was still a one/two-shot to just about every enemy (ancients included) well past the 15 minute mark. Beyond that, Dervish seems to have enough momentum that you ignore most of the knockdowns from mutalist moas which was a huge boon for me.

Beyond that, I realized (after far too long, I might add) that apparently Broken War's normal attacks without a stance mod installed utilize the Vengeful Revenant stance anyways, minus a few combos.

Is the utility of Vengeful Revenant's other combos really that much of a significant improvement over Crimson Dervish? Because at this point I'm really thinking I should just wait and see if it happens to drop while I try to farm Forma on Lua.

Edited October 3, 2017 by (XB1)MuffinWizrad

[rudman88]

 TO make the comparison for you,

go check thiese 2 wiki website

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Crimson_Dervish

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vengeful_Revenant

As you can see crimson devrish actually deal mroe dmg for short combo but slower attacks ( thanks to the weird animation )

vengeful revenant combo one of it can always proc a stun,

 

so is like one is for large group attack since it have more horizontal slash

while the other

is very good to kill fat thing

 

the chocie is up to you but honestly with primed fury, the crimson devrish delay really cant be seen

the painful part about vengeful revenant is the price

is from 90 to 200 range

 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

While CD feels more clunky, it also provides more range AND the strong multipliers even boil down to its basic combos, what makes the "slower choice" still do the multipliers more frequently. Plus, there's allways the option to get a riven with attack speed (somewhat of a mandatory for ash these days), what's quite favorable for melee eather way so....There isn't really a better or worse of these two. And to confirm it: Broken war is among the best melee weapons in the game.

Edited October 3, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

6 hours ago, (Xbox One)MuffinWizrad said:

Firstly, I have to clarify one major thing: I said it doesn't go for cheaper than 70p. I was wrong. I saw someone selling it on warframe.market for that cheap, but either they didn't know what they had or they were very generous. The actual lowest price is closer to 100-120p, with the majority of people asking 150p for it. Now that isn't a terribly high price, I can just run some vaults and sell the corrupted mods for 20-25p each. But all that work for this one very highly priced stance mod? That's what I'm not sure about.

Just an unrelated note, but be aware that warframe.market is almost completely populated by PC users and sells at PC prices.  The only non-PC users seem to be PS4 users, selling at PS4 prices.  It's an OK tool for judging an approximate price for Xbox One, but always be aware the Xbox One prices will differ, and usually will be higher than those listed on warframe.market.

[Desperado14]

I like them both.  I like revanent for the mobility, and it seems more fluid than crimson dervish, but there is a combo with dervish (I can't remember which one) that ends with a finisher, and it is really powerful.   I would say that revenant is more versatile and more fun, but dervish is better suited for high level enemies.  Also, I would wait until the new sword stance with PoE has been out for awhile, and see if the price on either stance comes down.  Also, the new sword stance coming out looks really BA, so most of all I would just try to obtain the new one coming out before purchasing the old ones.  

[(XBOX)MuffinWizrad]

On 10/3/2017 at 11:23 AM, Desperado14 said:

I like them both.  I like revanent for the mobility, and it seems more fluid than crimson dervish, but there is a combo with dervish (I can't remember which one) that ends with a finisher, and it is really powerful.   I would say that revenant is more versatile and more fun, but dervish is better suited for high level enemies.  Also, I would wait until the new sword stance with PoE has been out for awhile, and see if the price on either stance comes down.  Also, the new sword stance coming out looks really BA, so most of all I would just try to obtain the new one coming out before purchasing the old ones.  

Thanks for the tip. I didn't even know we were getting a new one with PoE. I'll stick with Dervish for now and see about the new stance once we all set foot on eidolon.