I think the DE should take another look at Bladestorm

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Soo...chroma

Ready the rework idea before making assumptions 

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

Just now, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

 

 

Thanks you 

[Nazrethim]

52 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Suuure. No specific aiming and a faster animation is obviously outperformed by a slower Animation+aiming at every single enemy individually.

That's the reason you wanna lower his damage. Cause more damage slower is better, it beein slow totally not beein an argument of yours. Oh and, melee is as potent because it is melee and not an exalted ability. Finishers can crit.

You single out tough enemies with FT and obliterate grunts with SS's melee damage buff. And since melee scales better than a stance or current failstorm every will... you do the math.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

2 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

You single out tough enemies with FT and obliterate grunts with SS's melee damage buff. And since melee scales better than a stance or current failstorm every will... you do the math.

Oh and then the cost, cause 75 energy PER KILL is better.

 

Also totally not an argument of yours.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

Ready the rework idea before making assumptions 

Did an edit. Kid pressed save.

[Ash_of_Narmer]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

Maybe, but finding an "ash player" who didn't spam old BS is as rare as finding an ember who doesn't keep WOF up for the whole mission

I'm one of those super rare "Ash Players" who RARELY if ever uses Bladestorm for the simple fact that Covert Lethality and Fatal Teleport work so much better stealth wise.

As soon as I found out Ash was the "Ninja Frame" I bought Platinum and then bought Ash. Then once I found out about Ash Prime, I worked my butt off to get him.

I've been using Ash almost exclusively since MR6 and I would actually like to see an ability change. I only use 2 and 3, and built Ash for Max power duration. So I have I believe 25 or so seconds of invisibility.

Background aside, I think Ash would work better with the following ability changes (I'll be making a forum topic about this formally later)

1. Shuriken

Strength: 15%-30% of CURRENT enemy Hp
                Affected by strength mods, caps at 40%-50% current HP.
         Bleed Proc: 1%-5% current enemy HP as damage per tick    

                             AFTER shuriken damage unaffected by strength

                             mods.

         Alt Bleed Proc: 10% of Shuriken damage per tick.

Cost: 30

Ex1. (Using 15% hit damage, and 3% bleed proc and ignoring his passive)

Grineer Bombard at 1000hp gets hit by shuriken and loses 150hp on hit, leaving it with 850hp. The bleed proc removes 27hp for 6 ticks, leaving the bombard at  approx. 690hp. The next shuriken does 70 damage on hit, bring health to 620hp. The bleed does 18 per ticket for 6 ticks, bringing the bombard to 512.

This would make Shuriken a great softener, as an unmodded ability especially with the augment mod. And a great dps ability for people who prefer Ash as a combat frame. (Damage values subject to change of course)

 

Ex2. Bombard has 1000hp, Shurken does 150 damage, and bleed does Maybe 15 damage per tick for 6 ticks doing a total of 210 damage, bringing bombard to 790hp.

A little less powerful, and probably more balanced, but these are just suggestions.

 

2. Smoke Screen

I honestly think smoke screen is fine as it is, although a slight duration buff would be great since Ash is primarily a stealth frame.

 

3. Teleport

This ability is perfect as it is to be honest, but a range buff would!d be great!

 

4. A cycleable ability similar to Vauban and Ivara or standalone

In keeping with the idea that Ash is a stealth frame, I would propose a complete new ability with a more ninja like function.

 

4a. Sleep Gas

Range: 15-25 meters in diameter affected by range mods

Duration: 8-10 seconds affected by duration mods

Cost: 75-125 energy

Drops/throws a bomb that releases a stream of gas that gradually spreads out and puts enemies it touches to sleep while cloaking Ash and Allies inside the cloud for the duration of the cloud.

 

4b. Wrist Blades

Cost: 25-50hp per enemy

Strength: Lethal Damage

Ash uses his wrist blades to deal lethal damage to enemies. Ash is not invulnerable while this ability is active, making it wise to use with Smoke Screen.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Mataeru
Made a slight change

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Soo...chroma with a bit of limbo and saryn? Cause you don't like o.p. melee and zero effort finisher damage as is? So you wanna make it compromise dependant on his first and raise its cost by attaching it to his third ability? Cause that's better?...

Not that it's bad per se, i actually fancy that idea but melee is pretty decent as is, channels lock you out of quite a bit of stuff and cost.

 

Still the best rework idea so far tho.

Or maybe make it duration based ... that’s an option

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

7 minutes ago, Mataeru said:

I'm one of those super rare "Ash Players" who RARELY if ever uses Bladestorm for the simple fact that Covert Lethality and Fatal Teleport work so much better stealth wise.

As soon as I found out Ash was the "Ninja Frame" I bought Platinum and then bought Ash. Then once I found out about Ash Prime, I worked my butt off to get him.

I've been using Ash almost exclusively since MR6 and I would actually like to see an ability change. I only use 2 and 3, and built Ash for Max power duration. So I have I believe 25 or so seconds of invisibility.

Background aside, I think Ash would work better with the following ability changes (I'll be making a forum topic about this formally later)

1. Shuriken

Strength: 15%-30% of CURRENT enemy Hp
                Affected by strength mods, caps at 40%-50% current HP.
         Bleed Proc: 1%-5% current enemy HP as damage per tick    

                             AFTER shuriken damage unaffected by strength

                             mods.

         Alt Bleed Proc: 10% of Shuriken damage per tick.

Cost: 30

Ex1. (Using 15% hit damage, and 3% bleed proc and ignoring his passive)

Grineer Bombard at 1000hp gets hit by shuriken and loses 150hp on hit, leaving it with 850hp. The bleed proc removes 27hp for 6 ticks, leaving the bombard at  approx. 690hp. The next shuriken does 70 damage on hit, bring health to 620hp. The bleed does 18 per ticket for 6 ticks, bringing the bombard to 512.

This would make Shuriken a great softener, as an unmodded ability especially with the augment mod. And a great dps ability for people who prefer Ash as a combat frame. (Damage values subject to change of course)

 

Ex2. Bombard has 1000hp, Shurken does 150 damage, and bleed does Maybe 15 damage per tick for 6 ticks doing a total of 210 damage, bringing bombard to 790hp.

A little less powerful, and probably more balanced, but these are just suggestions.

 

2. Smoke Screen

I honestly think smoke screen is fine as it is, although a slight duration buff would be great since Ash is primarily a stealth frame.

 

3. Teleport

This ability is perfect as it is to be honest, but a range buff would!d be great!

 

4. A cycleable ability similar to Vauban and Ivara or standalone

In keeping with the idea that Ash is a stealth frame, I would propose a complete new ability with a more ninja like function.

 

4a. Sleep Gas

Range: 15-25 meters in diameter affected by range mods

Duration: 8-10 seconds affected by duration mods

Cost: 75-125 energy

Drops/throws a bomb that releases a stream of gas that gradually spreads out and puts enemies it touches to sleep while cloaking Ash and Allies inside the cloud for the duration of the cloud.

 

4b. Wrist Blades

Cost: 25-50hp per enemy

Strength: Lethal Damage

Ash uses his wrist blades to deal lethal damage to enemies. Ash is not invulnerable while this ability is active, making it wise to use with Smoke Screen.

4a. Can be put on smoke screen

4b. While that would be fun to use exalted weapons fall off hard without augments and still fall off with augments 

 

 

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

An exalted mode buffing movement and 1-3 abilities would be best .... while I would want to Add his  wrist blades to his rework that would make him seem op 

 

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

51 minutes ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

Thanks you 

theres more. added a short synopsis (kinda).

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

59 minutes ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

Or maybe make it duration based ... that’s an option

Def not for an ultimate...gotta be a channel i guess.

 

Except they switch his abilitys, maybe make SB the ultimate, teleport the 2, the buff the 3 and add something additional, like shuriken and augumented melee triggeting single BS marks on enemys in the cloud on the same 50m base and re-multicastable.

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

4 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Oh and then the cost, cause 75 energy PER KILL is better.

It's 30(15 if Fatal Teleport is equiped) per Elite enemy kill, or 35 to wipe as many as you can with your melee during 8s, which depending on placement and your weapon can be anywhere from 4 to 30.

BS currently requires 15(10) to 45(30) per kill, which stacks up fast when you are facing more than 10 enemies at any given time.

 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

It's 30(15 if Fatal Teleport is equiped) per Elite enemy kill, or 35 to wipe as many as you can with your melee during 8s, which depending on placement and your weapon can be anywhere from 4 to 30.

BS currently requires 15(10) to 45(30) per kill, which stacks up fast when you are facing more than 10 enemies at any given time.

 

My bad, was meant to be 25(12,5)

Vs 15(10) on your duration build (since naramon bad and all). So 10 at any given time. What kinda makes telport slower, more expensive by default with allmost double the cost without a specific mod that isn't efficiency but something else (bad augument cause build diversity) until you pass the up to 12k health mark (x3 if you mark once)

So you prefer the more expensive, slower one over the cheaper, faster one

 

Cause bladestorm is slow and expensive appearently

Just pointing that brilliant double standart out.

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

My bad, was meant to be 25(12,5)

Vs 15(10) at any given time, on your duration build (since naramon bad and all). So 10 at any given time. Slower, more cost, with allmost double(more then double) the cost without a specific mod that isn't efficiency but something else (bad augument cause build diversity) 

So you prefer the more expensive, slower one over the cheaper, faster one

 

Cause bladestorm is slow and expensive appearently

Just pointing that out.

I don't actually use Teleport (augmented or not) for that. If I want to wipe enemies, I use SS and wipe with my melee. BS and Tp are both terrible for actual crowd clearing, because both are target by target.

And while Teleport is intended to be single target, BS is supposed to be the mass slaughter tool (otherwise it would have like, a 3 enemy cap or something, rather than 50)

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

12 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I don't actually use Teleport (augmented or not) for that. If I want to wipe enemies, I use SS and wipe with my melee. BS and Tp are both terrible for actual crowd clearing, because both are target by target.

And while Teleport is intended to be single target, BS is supposed to be the mass slaughter tool (otherwise it would have like, a 3 enemy cap or something, rather than 50)

Oh is it? Or is it a clearing tool? Something like, idk, some kind of ultimate ability that can eather assist you in hectic battles by backtracking your steps or by clearing entire armys when things get outa hand by actually providing marks extending your max energy if you replentish it halfway trough with as much as rage.

You're apearrently the dev, you tell me.

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Did you notice how you made that double standart while comparing bs to teleport btw? BS is bad cause it needs efficiency or mods in generall and cause its slow but teleport is fine requiring a mod too and beein slower. Let us stick to that logic since you compare these two a lot.

Teleport isn't even a guaranteed finisher without said mod but opens to finishers.

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Did you notice how you made that double standart while comparing bs to teleport btw? BS is bad cause it needs efficiency or mods in generall and cause its slow but teleport is fine requiring a mod too and beein slower. Let us stick to that logic since you compare these two a lot.

Teleport isn't even a guaranteed finisher without said mod but opens to finishers.

Yes, I noticed. But I don't claim BS needs effi, I call out it needs freaking RIVENS and ARCANES just to be goodish. TP benefits from them too, but doesn't actually require them.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Oh is it? Or is it a clearing tool? Something like, idk, some kind of ultimate ability that can eather assist you in hectic battles by backtracking your steps or by clearing entire armys when things get outa hand by actually providing marks extending your max energy if you replentish it halfway trough with as much as rage.

You're apearrently the dev, you tell me.

It is a clearing tool. Or at the very least is NOT designed around being active all the time, but rather you are supposed to activate it when the stakes are dire, mark as much as possible, then unleash. Problem is the implementation is so stupid poor that it doesn't actually work in accordance to the cues the game itself gives you. And that "extend your max energy" is more of a happy accident, DE designed the refund because they knew the marking mode and it's absurd cost are bs, so they tried to make it less obvious of a nerf by adding the refund, and of course in a case of "not the intended use" players began using it to have extended energy pool, which only applies in Solo because your squadmates will wipe everything, marks be damned, so you end up with energy excess and wasted energy anyway.

And that's another problem, while BS is goodish in Solo (provided you stacked stuff just for it to be bearable) it is completely useless in actual Team missions.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

8 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Yes, I noticed. But I don't claim BS needs effi, I call out it needs freaking RIVENS and ARCANES just to be goodish.

Nah? I could go back to older threads and quote you at least 20 times you did but i just woke up so i just leave it at that. And the same way teleport needs frickin AUGUMENTS to be goodish?

 

I mean only difference between auguments and rivens is realisticly speaking the time they've been in the game on the same accessability. They're not accessable from the beginning and require a hell of a farm or a lil investment. Same goes for rivens imo and it more then shows that they've established themselfes. Arcanes sure are a different story but they affect stuff like exalted abilitys too and are not needet for it to be good. They're rather the cream topping for working so perfectly with it.

How is it you treat one like a completely normal mandatory while stating how bad the other one is?

[Nazrethim]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

How is it you treat one like a completely normal mandatory while stating how bad the other one is?

Well, you see, I was rocking Teleport (and my Karyst) well before Fatal Teleport  (or Covert Lethality) was (were) added, and sometimes I do go without the augment and TP does just fine provided I dispatch Ancient Healers first. TP does it's job without the augment.

And the problem with Rivens is that they limit your weapon choices. How many +Attack Speed Rivens you have?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

2 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

 And the problem with Rivens is that they limit your weapon choices. How many +Attack Speed Rivens you have?

2/2 of the ones i have. Playing sorties sporadically if anything these days, got hooked on skyrim - skana with a god roll and broken war with a pretty good roll too (speed and slide crit)

 

You can roll them. That's the catcher about them.

It's just fun how you were adapting to one thing but completely denying another thing specific to something you just don't enjoy and rather entertaining how you use the one thing you adapted to to argue against the other.

 

Especially since neather rivens, nor arcanes or lets say mandatory mods for melee affect his actuall build. Build diversity right?

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Especially since neather rivens, nor arcanes or lets say mandatory mods for melee affect his actuall build. Build diversity right?

Build diversity goes beyond the mods on the frame. It also includes weapon of choice. You right there have 2 weapons you can use to make slowstorm bearable, anything else and you go back to slowstorm.

And as I pointed out, FT isn't mandatory to make TP good. A straight upgrade? yes. But TP still does it's job well. BS on the otherhand is a waste of time and/or energy in about 80% of the game's content without the things I pointed out. They aren't inherently bad, it's good BS benefits from them. But there's a difference between "benefit from an upgrade" and "requiring upgrades to even work"

Edited October 9, 2017 by Nazrethim

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

2 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

"requiring upgrades to even work"

You mean how it is the case for teleport you paint good all the tine, contradicting Bladestorm that works regardless and benefits further? 

Maybe we should keep bladestorm as is and change teleport instead?

I'm thinking about an exalted combo ...

[Nazrethim]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

You mean how it is the case for teleport you paint good all the tine, contradicting Bladestorm that works regardless and benefits further? 

Maybe we should keep bladestorm as is and change teleport instead?

I'm thinking about an exalted combo ...

Well, since both TP and BS are kind of the same ability, that isn't a bad idea either. Maybe some sort of super mode that allows Ash to kill more than one enemy at the time when doing a finisher, so it synergizes with BS for AoE clear, maybe also make SS an actual cloud with finisher openings. It could work. Shuriken could just have a third, non-seeking shuriken, so at least you don't waste the ability if the seeking ones decide to seek an invulnerable enemy, or an unimportant one you didn't intend to hit.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 10/2/2017 at 9:14 AM, (Xbox One)Oussii said:

My dear, I play Ash all the time

I am MR 24, and i take Ash for a 2 hours survival or any mission in sortie

And i clear the map with a blink of an eye.

Maybe you should learn the secret of playing ASH

You said earlier that it's good for a single enemy standing alone

Maybe you are playing Ash the wrong way

(First, get a Rakta Dark Dagger, mod it in a good way, it will make your animation faster)

(second. keep your fourth activated. when needed press it once again and see the result)

Once blade storm is done, press  it again, and move on,  you will mark enemies without even trying to do so, when needed press it again and BS is on.

An easier way if u you cannot handle the above: press your four, do a 360 while standing in yr place and activate BS.

See the magic

side notes:

Things that may help you: Shade or prisma shade, Zenurik, Arcane Trickery

Cheers

5

But what if you don't have or don't want to use the dark dagger? what if you don't have shade or arc trickery? what if someone just wants to have fun with ash instead of worrying about the probs with bs? (like new players) plus other ppl will still be able to take ur kills how can that be solved?

[Nazrethim]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

But what if you don't have or don't want to use the dark dagger? what if you don't have shade or arc trickery? what if someone just wants to have fun with ash instead of worrying about the probs with bs? (like new players) plus other ppl will still be able to take ur kills how can that be solved?

Add this:

What if you don't have a max efficiency build? What if you don't want to play the game in Sepia/Monochrome all the time?