I think the DE should take another look at Bladestorm

[bioned]

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

In higher level play, his 1 isn't taking out enemies. There are times when you don't want to advance on the enemy, and bladestorm allows you to deal high damage to multiple enemies, while not taking any damage yourself and returning you to a safe spot. 

Now if all you do is hit 4, wiggle, hit 4... Then yes it may seem slower than teleport. If you have mark toggled, you will be marking enemies by just entering a room and looking at them naturally. Bladestorm is especially good at taking out multiple pesky high armor corpus drones with little thought... And it won't drop you into their minefields. You can combine gunplay and melee with bladestorm. Enter a room shooting, marking enemies as you go, kill the stragglers. Enter a room with melee, build your combo counter (this making BS even stronger) dice up a few enemies, fatal teleport to a few eximus, kill the rest with bladestorm. If you have a fast melee, the animations are quick. Its not to hard to get into a really good rhythm with bladestorm if you try it without bias. For me it's almost like a flourish at the end of an assault on a group of enemies.

Bladestorm can also mark while you cloak and revive a teammate. As soon as they're revived you can take out all those around you. You can't do that with teleport. 

People really need to grasp the idea that bladestorm is meant to be set up with some forethought and not just serve as an "oh crap" panic button. Even as a panic move, I still find it decent enough at times. Wiggling the stick isn't as harrowing as people make it out to be. 

If your goal is to get the highest number of kills on a starchart mission playing with an Ember, then no, BS wont be your best bet.

If that was my goal, I would be playing Ember.

I'm saying BS doesn't fit the identity that ASH was given.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

No, you don't get it. You only think bladestorm is bad because you don't know how to use it. There is no "ice skating uphill". A sped up bladestorm kills multiple enemies faster than fatal teleport. This seems to be a tough concept for you to grasp for some reason. I think it's because you think that bladestorm is just about 4, wiggle, 4. You don't know how to play it. I'm not often outdone in sorties with Ash at all. 

..sigh.. his 3 does the exact same thing as his 4 and I don't even have to turn it on. Why use his 4?  My weapons can take out the trash with little to no effort, instead of whatever it is you do, or think you do with him. 

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

14 minutes ago, bioned said:

If that was my goal, I would be playing Ember.

I'm saying BS doesn't fit the identity that ASH was given.

Agree. 100%

[Hypernaut1]

6 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

..sigh.. his 3 does the exact same thing as his 4 and I don't even have to turn it on. Why use his 4?  My weapons can take out the trash with little to no effort, instead of whatever it is you do, or think you do with him. 

Sigh.... No. His 3 doest do EXACTLY the same thing as his 4. 

You can't seem to grasp the differences between the two moves. That's a personal problem, not a flaw with bladestorm.

There are some legitimate criticisms to be discussed about bladestorm, but saying it's exactly the same as teleport with an augment is ridiculous.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

32 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

My build most focuses on survivability and I run Primed fury on my melee on all times.

As do I. 

32 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

actually be a safer

Unless you mark more than you should have and have no energy, and you don't know what you marked or how many times. 

32 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

(kills them instantly with a high combo counter)

I don't need a Combo counter, his 3 animation are just as fast with daggers.

32 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

FT overrated since bladestorm

FT can do the same thing, less energy cost, and you are still invincible during the animation, and you know what you're killing. 

Edited October 3, 2017 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

16 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Sigh.... No. His 3 doest do EXACTLY the same thing as his 4. 

You can't seem to grasp the differences between the two moves. That's a personal problem, not a flaw with bladestorm.

There are some legitimate criticisms to be discussed about bladestorm, but saying it's exactly the same as teleport with an augment is ridiculous.

You really can't see how redundant Ash's 3 and 4 are? The only difference is his 3 is superior to his 4 in every way. Especially considering the mods and weapons we have at our disposal. His 4 is still completely unnecessary. 

Edited October 3, 2017 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

@Nazrethim look yet another failstorm rework thread. Fun 

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

23 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

Unless you mark more than you should have and have no energy, and you don't know what you marked are how many times. 

You need to be more thoughtful of your marking then. If your having trouble marking enemies and keeping your energy up, it's surprising how you could even use his 3 when surrendered by hordes of enemies.

 

23 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

Unless you mark more than you should have and have no energy, and you don't know what you marked are how many times. 

Good thing the energy refund is a thing

 

23 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

I don't need a Combo counter, his 3 animation are just as fast with daggers.

But you need a crutch augment with a crutch mod for a bad melee class on levels where you have no reason or benefit being on in the first place, meanwhile bladestorm can kill enemies faster and more reliable in most missions with just a basic melee build.

 

23 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

FT can do the same thing, less energy cost, and you are still invincible during the animation, and you know what your killing. 

The lower energy cost is the only upside FT has against bladestorm. Other than that I'm not going to hand pick every enemy and rewatch the exact same 2-3 second long animation and use a dagger over something that's actually good at melee combat like the nikana or venka prime just so I can save up on energy where bladestorm can easily get things done faster.

Edit: say whatever you want, but until fatal teleport works on bosses just as good as bladestorm does or fatal teleport having a reliable finisher proc, I see no real "Superiority".

Edited October 3, 2017 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

11 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

@Nazrethim look yet another failstorm rework thread. Fun 

Another "failstorm vs fatal crouch" thread more like it.

Edited October 3, 2017 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

You need to be more thoughtful of your marking then

I just don't use his 4 ever. His 2,3 is perfect especially when paired with a good primary or secondary. 

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

it's surprising how you could even use his 3 when surrendered by hordes of enemies.

Never been surrounded.

6 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

Other than that I'm not going to hand pick every enemy

 

7 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

You need to be more thoughtful of your marking then

These two statements seem to contradict each other. How can you be more thoughtful when marking but you don't pick every enemy to mark? Explain please...

[Hypernaut1]

22 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

You really can't see how redundant Ash's 3 and 4 are? The only difference is his 3 superior to his 4 in every way. Especially considering the mods and weapons we have at our disposal. His 4 is still completely unnecessary. 

1. BS can kill multiple enemies faster and easier than FT. If wiggling the stick is such a big issue to some of you, how is pointing and aiming at 10 enemies to do a finisher on supposedly much easier? Mind you, you have to reorient yourself every time. 

2. BS can kill airborne enemies. 

3. BS can return you to a safe spot or even mid air. 

4. BS can leave multiple enemies bleeding to death. 

[CuChulainnWD]

Ash will never again be a press 4 to win frame. I am down with that. 

I like him the way he is. A select elite assassin. You use him to take out the high priority targets. If things get hairy, simply wiggle your mouse with 4 and away you go. It is not that hard to do.

Edited October 3, 2017 by CuChulainnWD

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

13 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

1. Most Primaries or Secondaries can kill multiple enemies faster and easier than BS.

2. Primaries and Secondaries can kill airborne enemies. 

3. Smoke screen

4. His 3 kills them. 

Fixed that for you.

His 4 is unnecessary. And should be looked at again.

Edited October 3, 2017 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

Just now, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

These two statements seem to contradict each other. How can you be more thoughtful when marking but you don't pick every enemy to mark? Explain please...

Make sure your not trying to mark like 20 enemies (or just don't be a fool and have a seizure)

All you have to do with bladestorm is simply look left and right at a group of enemies( or passively keep it on marking mode), where as fatal teleport/teleport requires you to immediately aim and lock on your targets with an ability that requires pin-point aim.

There's a huge difference between my statement, but since you never use bladestorm I guess you wouldn't see it.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

Just now, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

Make sure your not trying to mark like 20 enemies (or just don't be a fool and have a seizure)

All you have to do with bladestorm is simply look left and right at a group of enemies( or passively keep it on marking mode), where as fatal teleport/teleport requires you to immediately aim and lock on your targets with an ability that requires pin-point aim.

There's a huge difference between my statement, but since you never use bladestorm I guess you wouldn't see it.

Yeah, sorry..I just find BS unnecessary if your primary can kill those enemies you just marked without spending any energy. And whatever is left standing...3. 

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

9 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

simply wiggle your mouse with 4

According to some in this thread you're playing him wrong. 

[Hypernaut1]

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

His 4 is unnecessary. And should be looked at again.

See, we can't even have a conversation because you're just trying to be a contrarian with no real substance.

No, most weapons don't deal armor ignoring finisher damage. After a certain point, most weapons aren't killing faster than bladestorm. 

This is exactly why bladestorm threads get ignored by the devs. Most of your criticisms aren't genuine and just motivated by trying to hate on the move because it's not an easy mode nuke anymore, instead of truly looking at its pros and cons. Why should they take you seriously when all you do is put your fingers in your ears and shout that bladestorm is the EXACT and move as fatal teleport?

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

9 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

Yeah, sorry..I just find BS unnecessary if your primary can kill those enemies you just marked without spending any energy. And whatever is left standing...3. 

If your primary can kill faster than bladestorm than why are you using his 3 than? I mean if your weapons can pretty much one shot an entire group of lvl 100 enemies in seconds and never run out of ammo

 

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

According to some in this thread you're playing him wrong. 

According to you, his is using ash wrong by using 4 in the first place....

Edited October 3, 2017 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[Hypernaut1]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

According to some in this thread you're playing him wrong. 

No, if that's the ONLY way you know how to use it... And complain incessantly about it.... You're doing it wrong.

I even said the 4, wiggle 4 isn't as bad as many of you claim it to be. Sometimes I i indeed mark, wiggle, mark... And it's not that bad, but could be better

Edited October 3, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Why should they take you seriously when all you do is put your fingers in your ears and shout that bladestorm is the EXACT and move as fatal teleport?

Actually I want them to delete his BS, turn it into a duration utility buff. Give the "cut scene" to his 3. Call it a day. 

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

If you primary can kill faster than bladestorm than why are you using his 3 than?

His 3 is for high priority targets. You know whatever is left standing after the trash mobs are dead. 

 

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

mean if your weapons can pretty much one shot an entire group of lvl 100 enemies in seconds

I mean yeah, yours can't?

[Hypernaut1]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

Actually I want them to delete his BS, turn it into a duration utility buff. Give the "cut scene" to his 3. Call it a day. 

They worked for months on this move, they aren't busy going to give him an entire new 4 just because a few whiners refuse to even give it an honest try. They don't always need to cater to players that insist on simplistic play mechanics. There are other frames to play if you want simple. The game is allowed to have a few frames that take a bit more forethought than "p4tw"

And what armor ignoring weapon do you have that OHKs a room of lvl 100 enemies? Why even use Ash anyway then?

Edited October 3, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Nazrethim]

Okay. No BS (that doesn't stand for Blade Storm).

Ash now has a pointless 4 for the following reasons:

1) It's clunky as hell

2) Drains more energy than the frame has capacity for

3) The "reduce/remove cutscene" goal was never met, in fact got worse

4) The ability flat out doesn't work outside of super specific infinite energy builds

5) Teleport (and by extension Fatal Teleport) is flat out better as an assassination tool

6) For group clearing any weapon, specially melee (thanks to Smoke Screen's bonus melee damage) can clear small groups better and for a fraction of the cost, with more interactivity

7) At high levels it's outperformed by SS+Melee, Properly modded guns, Fatal Teleport

8) At lower levels is outperformed by freaking Shuriken

9) Overlaps with Teleport in function and mechanics (in fact Fatal Teleport uses the same trigger BS uses!)

Simply the ability in it's current form is a gordian knot of terrible design and needs to be scrapped and reworked. As I mentioned somewhere else, the cutscene could be salvaged as a secondary optional feature for Teleport.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Nazrethim

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

Just now, Nazrethim said:

Okay. No BS (that doesn't stand for Blade Storm).

Ash now has a pointless 4 for the following reasons:

1) It's clunky as hell

2) Drains more energy than the frame has capacity for

3) The "reduce/remove cutscene" goal was never met, in fact got worse

4) The ability flat out doesn't work outside of super specific infinite energy builds

5) Teleport (and by extension Fatal Teleport) is flat out better as an assassination tool

6) For group clearing any weapon, specially melee (thanks to Smoke Screen's bonus melee damage) can clear small groups better and for a fraction of the cost, with more interactivity

7) At high levels it's outperformed by SS+Melee, Properly modded guns, Fatal Teleport

8) At lower levels is outperformed by freaking Shuriken

Simply the ability in it's current form is a gordian knot of terrible design and needs to be scrapped and reworked. As I mentioned somewhere else, the cutscene could be salvaged as a secondary optional feature for Teleport.

This^

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

4 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

forethought

Tell me more, what kind of prudence is needed to play ash? Lol