*Suggestion* Revisit Ash 2.0

[Somi_xD]

Hello DE and Community,

much time passed, since i left Warframe and it looks like I will get into it again.
I am an Ash player since he was released and before the Revisit, me and other player did many suggestions to change Ashs Abilities (especially Bladestorm).
And coming back into the game, playing my Ash again - i remembered again why i was so disappointed.

Shuriken

- make Shuriken hits count as melee hits for the combo counter
- Shuriken profit from the melee combo counter

Smoke Screen

Smoke Shadow
- After using Smoke Screen (with Smoke Shadow) a thin veil of smoke covers Ash in the area of effect for the lenght of the duration.
- Every enemy who comes into the AoE of the Smoke Vail(the smoke shadow) of Ash, will be staggered/confused and can be finished/takes finisher dmg
- Every teammate/ally who comes into the AoE will get invisible for the full duration (but he doesn't gets the Smoke Veil)
- The Smoke Shadow does silence you 100%
(this "Smoke Shadow" will allways be around Ash
 

Bladestorm

Activation and Use
(The numbers are only examples)
1. Bladestorm will be a time based Ability

- you can have a maximum of 60 seconds
- Each kill adds 4 seconds to your Bladestorm counter
- you only get the time for kills out of Bladestorm -> means you can't extend bladestorms time while in bladestorm
- you need 30 seconds in the counter or more to actually enable Bladestorm
- but you can disable it anytime
- duration is not affected by duration mods

2. Ash changes his Melee Weapon to his Hidden blades

- hidden blades have their own move set and Stats (those stats are affected by the type of melee weapon you are wearing)
- they take over the mods of your actual melee weapon

3.1 Each mark counts as an mulitiplier for your other Abilities and attacks.
(Those stats are only examples) (red only ash - green for teammates)

- 1 Marker = 50% dmg more for Shuriken, and Stealth/finisher dmg for Teleport - Melee weapons 25% Dmg -  20% for Primary/Secondary - Status chance and duration 20% (also would count for the Shuriken augment) - teammates do 15% more dmg on them with anything
- 2 Marker = all those stats doubled ( 100%, 50% 40%, 40%, 30%)
- 3 Marker = again doubled ( 200%, 100%, 80%, 80%, 60% )
- Marked enemies are vulnurable to finisher, if you are in stealth -> means even if they are alerted, if they are marked and you are invisible, you can finish them
- Marks are not stackable by mulitiple Ashes, means another ash can't give a 3 marked enemy again 3 marks, BUT another ash can add the second or third mark

3.2 (My favorite)

- you can only have 1 Mark per enemy
- you can only Mark have 30 active Marks at the same time
- Marked Enemies will be affected this way ( the part from 3.1)
[- 200% dmg more for Shuriken, and Stealth/finisher dmg for Teleport
- Melee weapons 100% Dmg
- 80% Dmg for Primary/Secondary
- Status chance and duration 80% (also would count for the Shuriken augment)
- teammates do 60% more dmg on them with anything ]

4. As soon as you hit an marked enemy the Mark(s) dissappear

- marked enemies stay marked, even if you deactivate Bladestorm or it runs out
- if a teammate attacks an marked enemy, only for them the mark disappaers (so every hero gets his own marks)
- the extra dmg for teammates does not count for other Ashes, but instead every other ash will get the ash only bonus (the difference here is, those marks will also disappear for every other Ashes as soon as an Ash triggers those marks)

Energy costs
1. Bladestorm itself doesn't cost Energy

- only the marks will cost energy (10 enegy while visible, 5 while invisible)
- you don't get the Engery back for killing marked enemies

Abilites and Augments
1. Seeking shuriken

- the defense reduction and duration will be affected by the Status bonus of Bladestorm

2.1 Using Smoke screen in Bladesstorm

- 100% more range
-  50% more duration

2.2 Smoke Shadow

- will be affected same as Smoke screen in Bladestorm
(100% range, 50 % more duration)

3. Fatal Teleport

- in Bladestorm the finishing animation for Fatal Teleport, will be the same as the attack animation of the current Bladestorm (because you will have the Hidden blades as weapons)
- In Bladestorm, Fatal Teleport works faster, the transition period between teleporting is much faster/shorter

It works like this:
You teleport to an enemy and while in the finisher animation, you can already aim at your next target and teleport to it as soon as the finisher animaiton is done.
Since the finisher animation is fast, the process overall goes pretty fast

- the finisher animation is affected by the melee weapon type and attack speed mods
- you will be invulnerable for the finisher animation

4. Rising Storm

- increase the max duration of Bladestorm
or
- it stays like it is

 

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Those changes would build a synergy between all abilites of ash and also their augments.
Also you would get a small support for teammates as well.
The overall dynamic of Ash would be much better.

So what are you thinking about it?
Are you satisfied with the current Bladestorm or not? Would this suggestion be a good possibility or not?

Edited October 4, 2017 by Somi_xD

[AcceI]

28 minutes ago, Somi_xD said:

So what are you thinking about it?
Are you satisfied with with current Bladestorm or not? Would this suggestion be a good possibility or not?

Yup.  Crappy 4 for a crappy frame. Match made in heaven.

[Somi_xD]

5 minutes ago, AcceI said:

Yup.  Crappy 4 for a crappy frame. Match made in heaven.

haha :'D  - so true, that it is so sad that it makes me laugh again

Edited October 4, 2017 by Somi_xD

[Nazrethim]

While I do support stance ultimate path for blade storm, I think focusing a second revisit entirely on Blade Storm will just lead to another sh*tty change, it would be Ash Revisited all over again. The problem with this one is that it pretty much makes using abilities outside of blade storm entirely pointless by comparison. BS mode working in tandem with the other abilities isn't a bad idea, that's what Synergy is, what isn't is BS mode affecting abilities in such a drastic way that you either use them in BS or don't use them at all.

Also, it's not specified but, does BS cost energy? If it doesn't and the only resource is Seconds stored, then it's a very creative move. Why care about energy when we could get creative with different resources?.

Also, do marks cost energy? that's a big problem of current BS because they cost too much.

[Somi_xD]

6 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

While I do support stance ultimate path for blade storm, I think focusing a second revisit entirely on Blade Storm will just lead to another sh*tty change, it would be Ash Revisited all over again. The problem with this one is that it pretty much makes using abilities outside of blade storm entirely pointless by comparison. BS mode working in tandem with the other abilities isn't a bad idea, that's what Synergy is, what isn't is BS mode affecting abilities in such a drastic way that you either use them in BS or don't use them at all.

Also, it's not specified but, does BS cost energy? If it doesn't and the only resource is Seconds stored, then it's a very creative move. Why care about energy when we could get creative with different resources?.

Also, do marks cost energy? that's a big problem of current BS because they cost too much.

In my opinion, ash isn't that bad overall, that he needs to be completely revisited.

1. BS itself doesn't cost energy, so the limitation that should prevent BS being constantly overused is time/seconds as an resource, that you only get out of BS
- i also thought about setting a cap which needs to be reached to activate BS ( i added it into my suggestion)

2. Using Smoke Screen or Teleport out of Bs is not a problem, it will be still worth it without BS
But Shuriken isn't really worth it without the augment anyways (thats the problem in general with the most first abilites)
- they could make shurkien hits count to the melee combo counter

3. I think the marks should cost Energy, but not as much as now, you can still go on effiency
- 10 energy while visible and 5 energy while invisible would be completely fine
 

Edited October 4, 2017 by Somi_xD

[Nazrethim]

19 minutes ago, Somi_xD said:

In my opinion, ash isn't that bad overall, that he needs to be completely revisited.

I don't mean completely changing the other abilities, just slightly tweaked to be more unique.

19 minutes ago, Somi_xD said:

1. BS itself doesn't cost energy, so the limitation that should prevent BS being constantly overused is time/seconds as an resource, that you only get out of BS
- i also thought about setting a cap which needs to be reached to activate BS ( i added it into my suggestion)

This is a very interesting feature indeed.

19 minutes ago, Somi_xD said:

2. Using Smoke Screen or Teleport out of Bs is not a problem, it will be still worth it without BS
But Shuriken isn't really worth it without the augment anyways (thats the problem in general with the most first abilites)
- they could make shurkien hits count to the melee combo counter

Smoke Screen's "problem" is that iit's just a generic invisibility. Donj't you agree that it could be made into an actual, duration based smoke screen? Teleport in general requires the augment, same as Shuriken. I challenge you to make them worth using on their own, and the augment just adding to them (honestly teleport could just have the automatic finisher by default though)

19 minutes ago, Somi_xD said:

3. I think the marks should cost Energy, but not as much as now, you can still go on effiency
- 10 energy while visible and 5 energy while invisible would be completely fine
 

By comparison, if you take Old BS cost (which was balanaced and fine) and split the cost (100) among the 18 enemies it had as cap, it used about 5.05 energy per enemy. Since marks in this scenario are just for buff, it may as well cost little energy or no energy at all.

[GinKenshin]

I'm just gonna throw my idea in here. I didn't read your suggestion and I'm sorry, but hopefully someone in DE will read this someday...

basically when you press 4, your blades come out, but you don't use them as melee weapons, you just run to enemies and 'bump' into them then BS screen will pop up and everyone within Xm of the original enemy is dead

you can use teleport and whatnot also (though that'll make it's augment kinda useless I admit) and it might give a build change towards movement speed mods and stuff

with this, it's more player friendly, takes more 'play' from the 'player' and it keeps it's deadly cinematic that some people like. the 'blades pop out' thing is just for shows

also to add.....ash gains X% more move speed and X% more evasion when he's in BS mode, to make him more fair and balanced.........he'll basically run around like naruto stabbing stuff XD 


peace~

[Somi_xD]

39 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I don't mean completely changing the other abilities, just slightly tweaked to be more unique.

This is a very interesting feature indeed.

Smoke Screen's "problem" is that iit's just a generic invisibility. Donj't you agree that it could be made into an actual, duration based smoke screen? Teleport in general requires the augment, same as Shuriken. I challenge you to make them worth using on their own, and the augment just adding to them (honestly teleport could just have the automatic finisher by default though)

By comparison, if you take Old BS cost (which was balanaced and fine) and split the cost (100) among the 18 enemies it had as cap, it used about 5.05 energy per enemy. Since marks in this scenario are just for buff, it may as well cost little energy or no energy at all.

I had the same thought on Augment mods as you from the beginning - why don't they actually added those to the abilities.
But i also understand, that they wanted Augments to be a Build orientated. So you can build with it around a single ability.
Basically it is "ok" like it is now with augments.
You can still manually execute on teleport, only that you don't get energy back on kills.
If they would, count Shuriken hits to the melee counter it would have a good use in general - basically they are not bad but only good for low lvl, with the augment shuriken has a use in High lvl.

About smoke screen, how do you mean this?
I had once an idea, making smoke screen like a vail of smoke coverig Ash (and ash gets invisible) for the full duration.
That means if an enemy walks into the Area of Effect he will be stunned/confused, that means you can run through enemies and they are getting confused stunned, so you can finish them.
Also it would supress weapon sounds (not sure if it should be 100% or not)
With the augment it would work like this - ever time an teammate walks into your smoke screen while it is active and he is not invisible he gets invisible for the full duration (but not the smoke vail effect).
That means allies can run anytime into your area of effect to profit from the augment, instead of you need to cast it while they are around you.
If you mean it similar to this i would agree with you.

Mhh... actually i am not sure about Marks do not cost any Energy.
Sure there would be already a good limit with the time, so basically it doesn't need to cost energy, but they you need to cap the amount of mark you can have active at the same time dratically - maybe 45 marks, means you can only mark a maxium of 15 enemies with 3 marks.
But then i think - why not just make it to one mark per enemy, set the max amount of marks to 30 at the same time, and let it cost 10 energy per enemy (5 while invisible).

[Nazrethim]

2 hours ago, Somi_xD said:

I had the same thought on Augment mods as you from the beginning - why don't they actually added those to the abilities.
But i also understand, that they wanted Augments to be a Build orientated. So you can build with it around a single ability.
Basically it is "ok" like it is now with augments.
You can still manually execute on teleport, only that you don't get energy back on kills.
If they would, count Shuriken hits to the melee counter it would have a good use in general - basically they are not bad but only good for low lvl, with the augment shuriken has a use in High lvl.

Making Shuriken add to the combo counter, or even benefiting from it would make it appealing at all levels. Not a bad idea.

2 hours ago, Somi_xD said:

About smoke screen, how do you mean this?
I had once an idea, making smoke screen like a vail of smoke coverig Ash (and ash gets invisible) for the full duration.
That means if an enemy walks into the Area of Effect he will be stunned/confused, that means you can run through enemies and they are getting confused stunned, so you can finish them.
Also it would supress weapon sounds (not sure if it should be 100% or not)
With the augment it would work like this - ever time an teammate walks into your smoke screen while it is active and he is not invisible he gets invisible for the full duration (but not the smoke vail effect).
That means allies can run anytime into your area of effect to profit from the augment, instead of you need to cast it while they are around you.
If you mean it similar to this i would agree with you.

I usually try to avoid saying my ideas in other people¡s threads because I don't want to bias the OPs ideas, and avoid the annoyance of my detractors pointing fingers and screaming "self promotion" bs.

But yes, my idea is very similar. It would basically make Ash create a smoke cloud where he is, while he is inside the cloud he gets a top-left invisibility buff that lingers for 8s and is reapplied every second he's in the cloud, the cloud lasting 12s. So he may stay inside the cloud or leave then return if he loses it or the time runs out. Smoke Shadow just extending that to allies. The cloud itself could have a debuff for the enemy (stun, -accuracy, finisher opening, or just blocking their LoS).

We indeed think alike.

2 hours ago, Somi_xD said:

Mhh... actually i am not sure about Marks do not cost any Energy.
Sure there would be already a good limit with the time, so basically it doesn't need to cost energy, but they you need to cap the amount of mark you can have active at the same time dratically - maybe 45 marks, means you can only mark a maxium of 15 enemies with 3 marks.
But then i think - why not just make it to one mark per enemy, set the max amount of marks to 30 at the same time, and let it cost 10 energy per enemy (5 while invisible).

Currently there is a cap: 50 marked enemies, 3 marks each. So the actual total is about 150 marks (at 15 per mark you can guess how absurdly broken the cost is). 45 cap for your rework idea seems legit. Just remember that Ash has by default only 150 energy pool.

[Somi_xD]

2 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Making Shuriken add to the combo counter, or even benefiting from it would make it appealing at all levels. Not a bad idea.

I usually try to avoid saying my ideas in other people¡s threads because I don't want to bias the OPs ideas, and avoid the annoyance of my detractors pointing fingers and screaming "self promotion" bs.

But yes, my idea is very similar. It would basically make Ash create a smoke cloud where he is, while he is inside the cloud he gets a top-left invisibility buff that lingers for 8s and is reapplied every second he's in the cloud, the cloud lasting 12s. So he may stay inside the cloud or leave then return if he loses it or the time runs out. Smoke Shadow just extending that to allies. The cloud itself could have a debuff for the enemy (stun, -accuracy, finisher opening, or just blocking their LoS).

We indeed think alike.

Currently there is a cap: 50 marked enemies, 3 marks each. So the actual total is about 150 marks (at 15 per mark you can guess how absurdly broken the cost is). 45 cap for your rework idea seems legit. Just remember that Ash has by default only 150 energy pool.

I did edit my idea.
If you want you can go through it again.

I heard similar ideas about an actuall smoke cloud ( this would be an interesting way as well)
I my idea is similar, but with the difference, that the smoke cloud is always around ash (like a thin veil)

Yeah, i acutally have a problem with the 3 mark, i would rather have one mark per enemy but a strong "debuff" on them.
I added the idea into the main post/suggestion.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Somi_xD

[DraionRG]

Press 4 

Ash will use his hidden blade and pressing lmb to enemies will add a deathmark, when attacking enemies with deathmark ash's clones will appear depending on how many deathmark the enemies have

 

How about that ?? :D