Azuset Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Hello DE, I have been playing the game since the beginning. This is the second time I have taken to the forums. The other time I had to give my input into the Ash nerf. He was my main I put hundreds of hours into him until that sad day. I do appreciate that fishing is in the game. I appreciate the creativity behind the concept. Its a great addition for many people. It's great to see warframe get another system. It makes the warframe universe become more flushed out and alive. However, it is not cool to force people to do it. It saddens me to say this but forcing us to play the "mini" game called fishing is bad game design. By bad game deisgn, I mean that its not "consumer" friendly. I can't think of one MMORPG that requires you to fish to progress the primary mechanics of your account/character(s). In this case it would be a faction standing, building the new weapons, and building a warframe. I can only think on your end that you force us to fish because there is the option to spend plat and what better way to make more $$$$? Please do not tie in fishing with primary progress in the next "open world" map. With all my passion and support, Azuset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sajochi Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 If you followed the devs on Twitter and pretty much every outlet, they are adjusting rewards this week, and from Reb and Steve, it's increases across the board. They don't have a lot of staff on the weekends as the office is basically closed, and it gives the devs tome to read feedback. Another tip, if you ever want to be taken seriously, refrain from calling things a cash grab. Guarantee you will get better results by being constructive instead of being passive aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TSA-raku Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Just now, Sajochi said: If you followed the devs on Twitter and pretty much every outlet, they are adjusting rewards this week, and from Reb and Steve, it's increases across the board. They don't have a lot of staff on the weekends as the office is basically closed, and it gives the devs tome to read feedback. Another tip, if you ever want to be taken seriously, refrain from calling things a cash grab. Guarantee you will get better results by being constructive instead of being passive aggressive. how come they need to test it live on ppl and wasting alot of time instead of adjusting or doing their math before relasing so much grind into the live game. feels more like they released it without enough data and testing. could be more fun when its rly done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sajochi Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, raku-EGT- said: how come they need to test it live on ppl and wasting alot of time instead of adjusting or doing their math before relasing so much grind into the live game. feels more like they released it without enough data and testing. could be more fun when its rly done. Because this is a new in game economy that needs time to be balanced and it's better to undershoot and adjust up than overshoot and get yelled at for "nerfs". There are always going to be balance passes in all aspects of a constantly evolving game. You will never get anything perfect the first time, but you can always change things to get close to perfect. It just requires patience and we're going to be getting a host of hot fixes this week. Edited October 16, 2017 by Sajochi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colyeses Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 20 minutes ago, Sajochi said: Because this is a new in game economy that needs time to be balanced and it's better to undershoot and adjust up than overshoot and get yelled at for "nerfs". There are always going to be balance passes in all aspects of a constantly evolving game. You will never get anything perfect the first time, but you can always change things to get close to perfect. It just requires patience and we're going to be getting a host of hot fixes this week. No, this economy went entirely untested. This wasn't 'undershot', this was missed by a mile. You can increase all standing income by 400% and you'd be closer to a fair economy. And 150 fish oil is three times the value it should have been, considering they also ripped off the entire playerbase by making them build another segment for something that is part of the air support segment. And the bounty rewards are inexcusable. 2 cyan stars, separately listed from the 1 amber star for a Tier V bounty, which is going to be harder than a level 100 sortie? This wasn't tested at all. We're doing the beta testing and bughunting for them because they did NO QA themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachibana_Hibiki Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 29 minutes ago, raku-EGT- said: how come they need to test it live on ppl and wasting alot of time instead of adjusting or doing their math before relasing so much grind into the live game. feels more like they released it without enough data and testing. could be more fun when its rly done. They could not delay it anymore for optional things like testing, since large portion of their playerbase was jumping on "i hope it's released tomorrow, or next thuesday at the latest! It is outrageous that we don't get in immediately or better yet - yesterday!" train. Now impatient people get to live test underbaked (surprisingly slightly underbaked) update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azuset Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Sajochi said: If you followed the devs on Twitter and pretty much every outlet, they are adjusting rewards this week, and from Reb and Steve, it's increases across the board. They don't have a lot of staff on the weekends as the office is basically closed, and it gives the devs tome to read feedback. Another tip, if you ever want to be taken seriously, refrain from calling things a cash grab. Guarantee you will get better results by being constructive instead of being passive aggressive. Thanks for your pro tips. I know this is not a payment model discussion. In terms of cash grabs, for you, when is it okay to call a cash grab a cash grab? If a person can't be taken seriously when talking about money in this game, that is a problem. Plat aka real life money is baked into every part of this game. Its a game mechanic and run the core of the economy. It needs to be talked about and kept fair. Whether people like it or not makes no difference. I was not being passive aggressive. I straight out said " I can only think on your end that you force us to fish because there is the option to spend plat and what better way to make more $$$$?". This is progression system is not a "cash grab" in my mind. In my mind its like every other aspect of the payment system pay for convinces. The point was forcing space ninja's to fish for progress is not good game design. ihmo. I constructive criticism was.... Don't do that again. Do I really have to come out and say the fishing system should be a progression system unto it's self just like every other game out there? I love the team behind this game. I spend my money on this game. I tell others to do the same because this game and the people who make are worth supporting. Edited October 16, 2017 by Azuset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latetier Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Azuset said: Thanks for your pro tips. I know this is not a payment model discussion. In terms of cash grabs, for you, when is it okay to call a cash grab a cash grab? If a person can't be taken seriously when talking about money in this game, that is a problem. Plat aka real life money is baked into every part of this game. Its a game mechanic and run the core of the economy. It needs to be talked about and kept fair. Whether people like it or not makes no difference. I was not being passive aggressive. I straight out said " I can only think on your end that you force us to fish because there is the option to spend plat and what better way to make more $$$$?". This is progression system is not a "cash grab" in my mind. In my mind its like every other aspect of the payment system pay for convinces. The point was forcing space ninja's to fish for progress is not good game design. ihmo. I constructive criticism was.... Don't do that again. Do I really have to come out and say the fishing system should be a progression system unto it's self just like every other game out there? I love the team behind this game. I spend my money on this game. I tell others to do the same because this game and the people who make are worth supporting. i applaud you sir. keeping it real. Edited October 16, 2017 by latetier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sajochi Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, Azuset said: Thanks for your pro tips. I know this is not a payment model discussion. In terms of cash grabs, for you, when is it okay to call a cash grab a cash grab? If a person can't be taken seriously when talking about money in this game, that is a problem. Plat aka real life money is baked into every part of this game. Its a game mechanic and run the core of the economy. I need to be talked about. Whether people like it or not makes no difference. I was not being passive aggressive. I straight out said " I can only think on your end that you force us to fish because there is the option to spend plat and what better way to make more $$$$?". This is progression system is not a "cash grab" in my mind. In my mind its like every other aspect of the payment system pay for convinces. The point was forcing space ninja's to fish for progress is not good game design. ihmo. I constructive criticism was.... Don't do that again. I love the team behind this game. I spend my money on this game. I tell others to do the same because this game and the people who make are worth supporting. Thanks for the clarification. The negativity that erupts on the forums every major update sometimes gets to me. That isn't a problem with you. Give more feedback and concerns, don't be discouraged. Right now, rewards are being addressed and it's a wait and see the next hotfix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colyeses Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 19 minutes ago, Tachibana_Hibiki said: They could not delay it anymore for optional things like testing, since large portion of their playerbase was jumping on "i hope it's released tomorrow, or next thuesday at the latest! It is outrageous that we don't get in immediately or better yet - yesterday!" train. Now impatient people get to live test underbaked (surprisingly slightly underbaked) update. Also not on the playerbase as DE jumped the gun on teasing PoE far before it was ready for release and entered 'final crunch mode' with over half of the update unfinished. I'm also pretty damn certain that the decision to not release any updates, which was presented halfway through september, is the reason that Gara is part of PoE at all, and the original plan that DE had was to have Gara tide us over to the release of PoE. However, that is entirely on them, as at the time of the decision, there was little pressure from the playerbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachibana_Hibiki Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Colyeses said: Also not on the playerbase as DE jumped the gun on teasing PoE far before it was ready for release and entered 'final crunch mode' with over half of the update unfinished. I'm also pretty damn certain that the decision to not release any updates, which was presented halfway through september, is the reason that Gara is part of PoE at all, and the original plan that DE had was to have Gara tide us over to the release of PoE. However, that is entirely on them, as at the time of the decision, there was little pressure from the playerbase. Partially agreed. DE sure loves raising agitation with their planned updates way before forseable release. However large part of WF community tends to behave like spoiled impatient children, and DE's doesn't help their condition by encouraging the overhype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azuset Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 I just learned that I have to fish to be able to use Archwing in the PoE.............................. /facepalm does not cover it. Kinda want to rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekrylzianthrane Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 On 10/16/2017 at 6:21 PM, Azuset said: I just learned that I have to fish to be able to use Archwing in the PoE.............................. /facepalm does not cover it. Kinda want to rage. Think of what it does to a gal who spent her whole life defending Animals.. DE i still love you even if you betrayed us (Should ''Animal friendly'' be something significant in this game?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revenant0713 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Nekrylzianthrane said: Think of what it does to a gal who spent her whole life defending Animals.. DE i still love you even if you betrayed us (Should ''Animal friendly'' be something significant in this game?) It's a depiction of a way of life. Specifically, the way of life of a community living on a genetically altered earth, where safe food is hard to come by, and nutrition must be found wherever it is easiest to access. Assassin's Creed has whalers in it. It's a depiction of a profession from a time long past. It doesn't mean Ubisoft likes whaling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekrylzianthrane Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 On 10/16/2017 at 6:52 PM, Revenant0713 said: It's a depiction of a way of life. Specifically, the way of life of a community living on a genetically altered earth, where safe food is hard to come by, and nutrition must be found wherever it is easiest to access. Assassin's Creed has whalers in it. It's a depiction of a profession from a time long past. It doesn't mean Ubisoft likes whaling. Mhmh.. We seem to be avoiding the problem here. This: On 10/16/2017 at 6:21 PM, Azuset said: I just learned that I have to fish to be able to use Archwing in the PoE Most of the fun things the Plains have to offer come through fishing. This -community being assisted by the Tenno /surviving as they can- idea is nice, of course.. We like helping people.. buut..i already felt bad with the wild Kubrow or Kavat interaction, limited to them being weak enemies to defeat or steal eggs from by destroying their home. That's no fate you wish upon any kind of locals. Especially when you are already at war against those who mutilated these locals' genetic codes in hideous ways. Anyway, why does Plains of Eidolon have to revolve so much about pulling friends from their homewaters, turning them into oil or other atrocities? While i must say, there's no outage of mapricots out there, and with Tenno help, the feeding and mechanical issues of those people could be fixed in a matter of days. Could make ''Protecting crops'' or ''escorting goods'' fun daily events.. All in all, i think the «forced fishing» slips in the -'kind of' cheap lacking creativity (and common sense) way to entertain players that aren't much into logical lore- category. But what do i know? i'm not a game developer =þ. and i don't mean to offend either‘ =) Have fun ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCoMerc Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 On 10/16/2017 at 10:13 AM, Tachibana_Hibiki said: They could not delay it anymore for optional things like testing, since large portion of their playerbase was jumping on "i hope it's released tomorrow, or next thuesday at the latest! It is outrageous that we don't get in immediately or better yet - yesterday!" train. Now impatient people get to live test underbaked (surprisingly slightly underbaked) update. Testing. Optional. I...don't think that second word means what you think it means... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachibana_Hibiki Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 9 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said: Testing. Optional. I...don't think that second word means what you think it means... I don't think you are in sync with how videogame development have been since around 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCoMerc Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 41 minutes ago, Tachibana_Hibiki said: I don't think you are in sync with how videogame development have been since around 2008. DE facto standard doesn't make it CORRECT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachibana_Hibiki Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said: DE facto standard doesn't make it CORRECT. Your point being?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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