PoE really needs some introductions for the new mechanics, signposting where to find things.

[KriLL3]

Second dream related stuff hidden behind spoilers, don't click if you don't want second dream spoilers.

Especially if CIG intends PoE to be new player friendly it needs a lot more signposting and explanations, some people call this "hand holding" but I'd argue this isn't something binary, you can help players along some without completely eliminating all exploration/discovery.

Quest isn't introduced or signposted to players at all that I could see, you have to find it on your own and figure out how to become eligible on your own, Lotus should introduce you to Cetus or have Konzo contact you

End of quest doesn't properly propel you forwards towards the next steps, should introduce mining, fishing, bounties, incursions. After I finished the quest I was really confused where to go and what to do, wandered around cetus and got some basic idea of some of it but still had enough questions I had to venture to the subreddit and wiki, not ideal. Would have been very little work to just add Konzo quickly giving you the rundown at some point when you arrive or after quest outlining what there is to do etc.

Spoiler

and if you've completed the second dream introduce you to Onkko at the end of the quest didn't find Onkko for quite a while, recognized the door from some previous quest so I realized I had to use tenno mode but someone else might have forgotten.

Fishing:

Fishmonger should be able to tell you where and when to find different fish, no specifics or big pin on your map or anything but tell you in more vague terms, like what it likes to eat, find that on the map etc, like the text on the fish after you fish them up, a lot of nice hints in there, which seems silly since you just got one. Could add more detailed hints that costs some standing. This is information a fishmonger would have access to I think, other fishers could tell her where they found particular fish etc, and most real fishermen I've met are happy to share the basic information of how to find fish, but don't hand you the specific spots they use for obvious reasons.

Mining:

Mining vendor can have similar hints as fishmonger, mineral veins only having 2 colors makes no real sense, would be a lot better if they had unique looks, similar to how old resource drops only had rarity models not individual ones, that way if you spot a vein and notice it's the shape and color of something you have tons of you can skip it, if it's something you need you make sure to grab it. Also seems like currently veins are pretty randomly distributed? Would be nice if they were more localized so if you need a particular material you can go somewhere in particular to get that. "Oh noes, I'm out of x, guess I need to go to y to get some more" instead of just pure scavenger hunt.

Spoiler

Eidlon fight:

Onkko really should prime you on this, all he does currently is warn you it spawns, tell you to hack lures etc, first time you meet him after getting introduced after the quest he should tell you about Eidolons and why you need to hunt them and what you'll get for it etc, give some basic hints on how the fight works etc, a lot of people attack em having no clue you need to use operator to get rid of shields etc He also doesn't say anything if you kill one I think? He should congratulate you and tell you to bring the spoils his way. Just a lot of missing "connective tissue" and signposting in PoE in general I think.

It's also pretty weird you can now potentially meet sentients on PoE before second dream etc where lotus freaks out, probably needs some alternate lines for lotus at PoE or second dream to maintain continuity. Yeah the eidlons are kinda undead sentient remains from the old war but should still give a reaction from lotus.

 

Edited October 18, 2017 by KriLL3

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

Or at lest tell you what the cores are.

I thought the blue voide trace things where cores for a long time.

cores on the other hand are hard to see, hard to find, and roll away never to be seen again :<

[KriLL3]

31 minutes ago, Fluff-E-Kitty said:

Or at lest tell you what the cores are.

I thought the blue voide trace things where cores for a long time.

cores on the other hand are hard to see, hard to find, and roll away never to be seen again :<

Agreed, I realized the cores were the tiny things because I saw the loot message pop up, but yeah they're tiny and roll down slopes so if you fight on a slope/hill gl finding em all, can roll into the water etc. TBH I'm not sure what the energy balls actually do, makes you glow blue? I know lures need the energy to power but but tbh I have no clue what the lures are good for, wiki says it stops it teleporting, but it's not hard to find after teleports..

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

Just now, KriLL3 said:

Agreed, I realized the cores were the tiny things because I saw the loot message pop up, but yeah they're tiny and roll down slopes so if you fight on a slope/hill gl finding em all, can roll into the water etc. TBH I'm not sure what the energy balls actually do, makes you glow blue? I know lures need the energy to power but but tbh I have no clue what the lures are good for, wiki says it stops it teleporting, but it's not hard to find after teleports..

aparently if it dies with at lest two lurs arond then you get the best quailty core form it.

[KriLL3]

1 minute ago, Fluff-E-Kitty said:

aparently if it dies with at lest two lurs arond then you get the best quailty core form it.

Oh, that's really obvious... (not).

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

3 minutes ago, KriLL3 said:

Oh, that's really obvious... (not).

I know right <_<

plus the fact that when you kill the little things with a lure near it, it will not drop a core or an energy ball.

the lures are a cool idea, and I kinda like them, but there funtion is kind of convoluted and not well explained.

they also keep its shields from being regenerated by the little ones or healed when its down. you use to be able to overcome the shields faster with shild disruption but they changed that too.

[KriLL3]

Just now, Fluff-E-Kitty said:

the lures are a cool idea, and I kinda like them, but there funtion is kind of convoluted and not well explained.

Kinda PoE in a nutshell imo, after patching to 22 I entered WF and my first reaction was "... wait, where do I go?" There wasn't an introduction mail as far as I remember, lotus/konzo didn't tell you about cetus and the quest didn't pop up or anything, had to figure out how to become eligible and find cetus on earth yourself, then after doing quest you had to figure out all the rest yourself or find the info online, DE really needs to give WF some "flow" should lead you to the next thing or new things etc, currently you have to figure it all out yourself.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

2 minutes ago, KriLL3 said:

Kinda PoE in a nutshell imo, after patching to 22 I entered WF and my first reaction was "... wait, where do I go?" There wasn't an introduction mail as far as I remember, lotus/konzo didn't tell you about cetus and the quest didn't pop up or anything, had to figure out how to become eligible and find cetus on earth yourself, then after doing quest you had to figure out all the rest yourself or find the info online, DE really needs to give WF some "flow" should lead you to the next thing or new things etc, currently you have to figure it all out yourself.

ya its sort of just... there. like they had counted on hype to have given you the info you would have needed to find it.

[Dan1lo]

I agree with your point of view.

Since the plains are intended for all levels of players (because they are accessible from Earth), people have to be better guided about things. Players should first be more immersed into the feeling of the Plains before having so many concepts shoved down.

The best example is FINDING the quills. As far as I know, there's no mention for where they are located or why should you align with them. There's no story, no drama, no need to seek them. Afterwards, the Teralyst is a really big fight with very little information about it! Since we take so long to take one Teralyst down, a lot of questions arise. Are we doing something wrong? Do we need more standing? Do we need to talk to the quills for advice? Do Batalysts and Conculysts help us with standing?

The same goes for mining and fishing. Surely you can get blueprints and go do those things right away. But why? How? Is there any more effective method??? Why not make quick and simple fetch quests to introduce players to the optimal ways of doing things? A really simple story would be having a veteran miner/fisher give you their best equipment to show you the basics (and the advanced ways to do things) and then have you grinding towards that level. You'd have something to look up for!

For the story Warframe has, this strikes to me as quite amateur, because so many quests, storylines and concepts have been introduced in the past, and they have rolled somewhat smoothly.

[KriLL3]

Very well put, it just feels like DE got so excited about releasing PoE they kinda forgot to add the small detail touches that really make something feel cohesive and polished, for a dev working on the game you know where the fishmonger is and why to talk to them, but a new player doesn't know, hopefully they're intrigued by the orange fish icon on the map but that's no grantee. And yeah it's such an obvious miss to not introduce the quills and have them tell you about the eidolons, it's such an obvious piece of the experience missing that I assumed I had missed it or the quest bugged out so I didn't get the end of it or something, but no, they didn't add that part.

Amp stuff and unlocking that mode etc also was really confusing and not explained at all.

There is a lot of tasty meat and veg in 22 but they kinda forgot the sauce to tie it all together.

Edited October 18, 2017 by KriLL3

[Daiwulf]

At the very least codex entry for the core systems (mining, fishing, bounty, incursion) and the fishing/mining NPCs could have explanations as an option "How do I fish/mine?", and Onkko should have his minimap icon after the Gara quest is done as battle operator shouldn't be a secret thing...

[Endorphinz]

One of my friends had suggested that maybe optional intro quests could be added, for your first fishing catch/first mineral mined. I say optional because I know lots of people like to find our things for themselves. Myself, I picked up mining no problem, but I had to ask someone how to do fishing.

[KriLL3]

15 minutes ago, Endorphinz said:

One of my friends had suggested that maybe optional intro quests could be added, for your first fishing catch/first mineral mined. I say optional because I know lots of people like to find our things for themselves. Myself, I picked up mining no problem, but I had to ask someone how to do fishing.

Doesn't even have to be a quest really, just a conversation with the vendors would be enough I think.

[Demogarose]

I agree with this thread 100%

Being forced to use external sources to find core gameplay features (the Quills, mining and fishing, etc) is something that should NEVER happen, and there are absolutely ways of guiding the player without "hand holding"

[KriLL3]

53 minutes ago, Demogarose said:

I agree with this thread 100%

Being forced to use external sources to find core gameplay features (the Quills, mining and fishing, etc) is something that should NEVER happen, and there are absolutely ways of guiding the player without "hand holding"

Agreed, I don't understand this mentality that has sprung up in warframe and some other game's playerbase that seems to be some kind of game knowledge elitism "I had to struggle to learn all this nonsense, make them struggle as much as I did" it kinda smells of the "git gud" mentality of the souls games.

It's not handholding to signposting the basics for new/returning players, just watched TotalBiscuit's stream, he's a pretty smart guy that hasn't played WF in a long time, he came back in to do his sponsored stream and was utterly confused by a lot of it asking chat for help with tons of stuff. Most players won't have a chat to lean on. Most players will have to either summon the energy to look up the information if they know where to look and how to find it or they will just close the game and not come back.

I've personally had to play that role a bunch of times with friends and they all liked WF once they got rolling but most ultimately quit because they just couldn't absorb the mountain of minutia that is how to play the game, and if I stopped supplying info they stopped playing. The game shouldn't need a guru to play it, the wiki is useful but you need a certain base knowledge to even know what to look for on the wiki, and again a game that needs a wiki to play is doing something wrong.

I'm a founder, I'm MR24 us originals had a big advantage over new players we learned the new content as DE added it, we didn't get a multi-year dump of new stuff in our lap to try and figure out, we got drip-fed new things to learn over years, if someone dumped the current state of WF in my lap I'd run away screaming from the confusion of it all.

Edited October 19, 2017 by KriLL3