Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?

[SpinnningSideKick]

16 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 I'm not gonna read the whole thread. And you shouldn't assume that anyone is supposed to read anything apart from the OP in a thread six pages long. If you want to make a point, just say which argument did you use. Was it among the ones I mentioned? 

That is not very respectful or thorough practice. Kinda limits you bit if you ask me, keeps you from seeing if anyone has added something new, (which they have) and only reinforces the argument for arguments sake attitude you seem to have a problem with (but contribute too all the same). 

 

Now remaining on topic. Yes, part of my argument does include to your point of view nonsensical elements, which they are not. When you said sentinels offer the same combat capabilities, you are in fact categorically and objectively wrong. No sentinel does anywhere near the same damage as a companion, even when they have forma and a riven on their weapon. Please also note, its very common for folks to go into missions with no weapon at all or precept on their sentinels for attacking. 

This is because the tiny amount of damage they do only draws attention to them, which inevitably gets them destroyed. I lose sentinels all the time, even with Primed Regen on them. They just cant hang in there on higher level missions, so folks take the aggro away from them along with their damage potential by removing their weapons entirely. 

One of the many reasons I use companions over sentinels is because I and my team mates can revive them, this alone makes them better in my view. The team synergy, damage, durability and special abilities are just icing on the cake. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

il y a 3 minutes, SpinnningSideKick a dit :

When you said sentinels offer the same combat capabilities, you are in fact categorically and objectively wrong. No sentinel does anywhere near the same damage as a companion, even when they have forma and a riven on their weapon. Please also note, its very common for folks to go into missions with no weapon at all or precept on their sentinels for attacking. 

Three types of shield recharge. Health regeneration. Sanctuary. Loot and Enemy Radars. Scanning. Ammo mutation. Stealth (if limited). Long-range damage dealing (Diriga). Crowd control. High damage on weapons like sweeper prime and Vulklok. Status and firerate on weapons like prism burst laser and Artax. Ability to pop up nullifier bubbles.

 Dogs can't compete with sentinels' utility. Not even close. With UV they would at least had a chance to some future attention from Devs. Without UV, without being popular enough to provide an incentive for DE's revisit pets will always be below average. And what damage are you even talking about anyway? The damage is mediocre at best and you'll sooner kill the target yourself than your cat or dog does it. Unless it's a low-lvl enemy which isn't a problem at all anyway.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

il y a 11 minutes, SpinnningSideKick a dit :

That is not very respectful or thorough practice. Kinda limits you bit if you ask me, keeps you from seeing if anyone has added something new, (which they have) and only reinforces the argument for arguments sake attitude you seem to have a problem with (but contribute too all the same). 

Oh, I've done my quota of reading alright. If I mentined your point of argument among the listed ones, I don't have to read it again, do I?

[SpinnningSideKick]

3 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Three types of shield recharge. Health regeneration. Sanctuary. Loot and Enemy Radars. Scanning. Ammo mutation. Stealth (if limited). Long-range damage dealing (Diriga). Crowd control. High damage on weapons like sweeper prime and Vulklok. Status and firerate on weapons like prism burst laser and Artax. Ability to pop up nullifier bubbles.

 Dogs can't compete with sentinels' utility. Not even close. With UV they would at least had a chance to some future attention from Devs. Without UV, without being popular enough to provide an incentive for DE's revisit pets will always be below average. And what damage are you even talking about anyway? The damage is mediocre at best and you'll sooner kill the target yourself than your cat or dog does it. Unless it's a low-lvl enemy which isn't a problem at all anyway.

 

1 minute ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Oh, I've done my quota of reading alright. If I mentined your point of argument among the listed ones, I don't have to read it again, do I?

Clearly you havent done your quota of reading. I wasnt speaking about utility of sentinels over companions. Sentinels do have more options, they are the epitome of utility with vacuum. No one said they didnt, I know I didnt. I was speaking about their damage output specifically, compared to companions they do not measure up even with advantages like Rivens that companions do not even have access too.

I suggested an experiment 4 pages back, and encourage you to try it. Youll see what I mean if you actually try it. 

As to DE not revisiting companions, what about the next new frame? Isnt she going to be the Kavat lady? Looks like a revisit to me. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

il y a 23 minutes, Hypernaut1 a dit :

I still don't think I've read an answer as to why you NEED the loot from carrier that was any more complex than "I like to see my loot fly towards me"

Personally, i have far not fun with random mega crits

Easy.

1) if loot drops are in the mission, they have to be picked up, It's part of the gameplay. You are free to ignore them, but you're ignoring a part of the gameplay. Lack of vacuum forces you to do just that - ignore the loot and the looting system. Because nobody is gonna bother to pick up everything manually. Even the most die-hard vacuum deniers wont do that.

2) Vacuum makes looting more engaging and less tedious, allowing players to interact with the looting system without forcing them into janitor simulator and distracting them from the gameplay.

3) Vacuum affects all aspects of gameplay boosting warframes' mobility and increasing the pace of the mission. Allowing a free and more focused use of multiple core gameplay mechanics like parkour 2.0 and combat in general. Vacuum supplies the player with ammo pickups for shooting. Energy for using abilities and even health every once in a while. While also allowing players to collect loot for future crafting in a non-distracting way and providing this satisfying "click" that triggers all sotrs of goodness in our brains.

4) Vacuum is already in the game. At this point adding Universal Vacuum would only raise the popularity of animal companions from non-existant to somewhat equal to sentinels. Most of them still wouldn't be as useful as sentinels, but it's a step in the right direction that has to be done.

5) You would have had even more fun with random mega crits and vacuum. You wouldn't mind UV yourself. It's a win-win deal for everyone.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

il y a 15 minutes, SpinnningSideKick a dit :

Clearly you havent done your quota of reading. I wasnt speaking about utility of sentinels over companions. Sentinels do have more options, they are the epitome of utility with vacuum. No one said they didnt, I know I didnt. I was speaking about their damage output specifically, compared to companions they do not measure up even with advantages like Rivens that companions do not even have access too.

I suggested an experiment 4 pages back, and encourage you to try it. Youll see what I mean if you actually try it. 

As to DE not revisiting companions, what about the next new frame? Isnt she going to be the Kavat lady? Looks like a revisit to me. 

I read all of this and those are just my own topics on this forum only. So unless you have something really groundbreaking to tell me, I've heard it.

il y a 15 minutes, SpinnningSideKick a dit :

As to DE not revisiting companions, what about the next new frame? Isnt she going to be the Kavat lady? Looks like a revisit to me. 

We'll see it when it comes. Whenever it comes. If it ever comes.

 It would still be a year without an update for Kavats and the Charger, and more than two years without updates for Kubrow.

Edited November 10, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[SpinnningSideKick]

5 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Easy.

1) if loot drops are in the mission, they have to be picked up, It's part of the gameplay. You are free to ignore them, but you're ignoring a part of the gameplay. Lack of vacuum forces you to do just that - ignore the loot and the looting system. Because nobody is gonna bother to pick up everything manually. Even the most die-hard vacuum deniers wont do that.

2) Vacuum makes looting more engaging and less tedious, allowing players to interact with the looting system without forcing them into janitor simulator and distracting them from the gameplay.

3) Vacuum affects all aspects of gameplay boosting warframes' mobility and increasing the pace of the mission. Allowing a free and more focused use of multiple core gameplay mechanics like parkour 2.0 and combat in general. Vacuum supplies the player with ammo pickups for shooting. Energy for using abilities and even health every once in a while. While also allowing players to collect loot for future crafting in a non-distracting way and providing this satisfying "click" that triggers all sotrs of goodness in our brains.

4) Vacuum is already in the game. At this point adding Universal Vacuum would only raise the popularity of animal companions from non-existant to somewhat equal to sentinels. Most of them still wouldn't be as useful as sentinels, but it's a step in the right direction that has to be done.

5) You would have had even more fun with random mega crits and vacuum. You wouldn't mind UV yourself. It's a win-win deal for everyone.

I actually do loot everything. I open all the lockers I come across as I always have [scavenge] and [animal instinct] equipped. I hunt for ayatans on pretty much every map, find one every fourth or fifth mission, its my main source of endo. 

This practice does tend to bother the "efficiency" over everything crowd, until I mark an ayatan for them, at which point they become quite grateful and throw their precious "shortest route through the tile" out the window to circle back to collect that ayatan. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

il y a 6 minutes, SpinnningSideKick a dit :

I actually do loot everything. I open all the lockers I come across as I always have [scavenge] and [animal instinct] equipped. I hunt for ayatans on pretty much every map, find one every fourth or fifth mission, its my main source of endo. 

This practice does tend to bother the "efficiency" over everything crowd, until I mark an ayatan for them, at which point they become quite grateful and throw their precious "shortest route through the tile" out the window to circle back to collect that ayatan. 

 For people like you in my passive warframe UV threads I mention the ability to turn it off through the menu. So you could indulge in your tedium as much as you want. There is no reason to have manual pickups in this game apart from some few people who actually like spending their time picking up every single thing of the floor instead of shooting and fighting in an action game.

 Oh, ayatan. You mean when people are supposed to parkour all the way across the map just to pick up one useless trinket? Yeah. Amazing.

[SpinnningSideKick]

3 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I read all of this and those are just my own topics on this forum only. So unless you have something really groundbreaking to tell me, I've heard it.

We'll see it when it comes. Whenever it comes. If it ever comes.

 It would still be a year without an update for Kavats and the Charger, and more than two years without updates for Kubrow.

I dont think I can decide for you if you have read it or not. I dont know what youve chosen to deliberately ignore by skipping huge sections of conversations. As I said, not a very respectful or thorough attitude, but thats on you. If I was as invested in Univac as you are I wouldnt choose to miss any part of the discussion. Your life man, do what you want. 

As for whether or not the Kavat lady is coming, the screen shots they released last week suggest a lot of effort on DEs part to me. Sculpting, modelling and coding take a lot of work, and then there is debugging. In my view the kavat lady is a forgone conclusion, and likely within a few months based on DEs development cycle. 

I would count the Helminth Charger as a companion update, and yeah, you are right they havent pumped much resource into it, it has been nearly a year since it was released. I could be wrong, but the Taxon was less recent than the Helminth. You could count Helios Prime as a more recent addition to the ranks of sentinels, but its really not that much more investment from DE than into companions. Both seem to be back burner items for them, which Im okay with. Id way rather they only update sentinels and companions once a year each instead of developing fewer warframes. 

 

[SpinnningSideKick]

2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 For people like you in my passive warframe UV threads I mention the ability to turn it off through the menu. So you could indulge in your tedium as much as you want. There is no reason to have manual pickups in this game apart from some few people who actually like spending their time picking up every single thing of the floor instead of shooting and fighting in an action game.

 Oh, ayatan. You mean when people are supposed to parkour all the way across the map just to pick up one useless trinket? Yeah. Amazing.

Not really tedium if it pays off. It sends folks running for them when i mark it. Worth it when someone else does all the work of finding them it seems. 

You think they are useless, thats up to you. But they are worth plat and a not insignificant amount of endo. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

8 minutes ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

Not really tedium if it pays off.

How exactly does it pay off? You're wasting so much time breaking procedurally generated crates on a procedurally generated map. At least shooting is some action.

8 minutes ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

It sends folks running for them when i mark it. Worth it when someone else does all the work of finding them it seems. 

So you're doing it for the sake of this pleasure of seeing how people run back across the map? Fine, I'm not judging. To each their own. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[SpinnningSideKick]

9 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

How exactly does it pay off? You're wasting so much time breaking procedurally generated crates on a procedurally generated map. At least shooting is some action.

So you're doing it for the sake of this pleasure of seeing how people run back across the map? Fine, I'm not judging. To each their own. 

Nope. I do it for the ayatans. I dont need the endo, but its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Never know if Baro is going to bring a new primed mod (haha). Sending folks running for them is just a perk I enjoy. 2-3 ayatans easily max most mods, 3-4 for a primed mod. 

As for looting everything, sometimes you find gold crates. I usually find one once a month and its a nice treat to get a booster. Not really worth the investment of time realistically(to go looking specifically for gold cans), but I do it just the same as its not my primary goal. Im after the ayatans. 

Im not in that big a hurry to do much in warframe, I hate hitting the content wall, so I generally savour each experience as much as I can. 

[JuicyPop]

It's as if the people arguing against it dont understand that we already have it.

We're not really arguing for vacuum, we just want an environment where other companions don't come with the awful downside of losing access to the best single mod in the game.

edit: I just want one good reason to shovelback into breeding because right now it's a lot of tedium and expense without as much utility as you would expect.

Edited November 10, 2017 by JuicyPop

[AperoBeltaTwo]

26 minutes ago, JuicyPop said:

It's as if the people arguing against it dont understand that we already have it.

We're not really arguing for vacuum, we just want an environment where other companions don't come with the awful downside of losing access to the best single mod in the game.

Exactly. Even tho the mod itself is kind of a waste of slot - it's so mandatory that just having passive vacuum adjustable through the menu would be better.

Edited November 10, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[SpinnningSideKick]

16 minutes ago, JuicyPop said:

It's as if the people arguing against it dont understand that we already have it.

We're not really arguing for vacuum, we just want an environment where other companions don't come with the awful downside of losing access to the best single mod in the game.

edit: I just want one good reason to shovelback into breeding because right now it's a lot of tedium and expense without as much utility as you would expect.

What are you spending plat on breeding for? You really dont need too. The only time I spend plat on breeding kubrows is if I have a buyer for a lotus print that wants it now, and already agreed to my asking price plus the cost of rushing incubation. Otherwise I just put it in the oven and wait the day out doing something else. 

It would be nice if we got lotus prints on kavats though, might revitalise the companion trade! 

I think the thing we really need more than a vacuum for companions is some more mods for companions to improve their utility a little (like a mod that copies Oberons old passive, and turns ferals against your opponents!). But beyond vacuum I cant think of anything other than stuff sentinels already do, and we have sentinels for that. Its a trade off, and one that is seen throughout warframe in nearly every other aspect of the game. Something is always traded off, crits for status, speed for damage and so on. 

Im arguing against it so that DE is never forced to look at companions with vacuum and say "those are way too effective, nerf time." They would be, just like Mirage and the synoid all over again. Something too effective that changes the meta of the game too a degree that it would require a nerf. We shouldnt grow weeds just so we have something to pull later, is the mindset DE has. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 minute ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

It would be nice if we got lotus prints on kavats though, might revitalise the companion trade! 

Not gonna happen without UV. People simply aren't interested in Kubrow. They used to cost thousands of plat. Now new players don't even bother breeding/bying them cause doggos don't have Vacuum.

[SpinnningSideKick]

4 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Not gonna happen without UV. People simply aren't interested in Kubrow. They used to cost thousands of plat. Now new players don't even bother breeding/bying them cause doggos don't have Vacuum.

I made over a 1000 plat in the last month breeding lotus print kubrows. The market is there, you just dont pay any attention to it. Its not big, not a lot of folks are into it, but it is indeed there. Big influx of new players (PoE) means more people interested. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by SpinnningSideKick
forgot to add something.

[SpinnningSideKick]

Hey Apero. 

 

Do you have a Saryn? If you do, build for duration and range. Equip a Smeeta, Load up all your status weapons, build them for the most duration you can and take them for a spin. When your entire screen turns red with everything going red crit (even the status procs!) come back and tell me companion users are suffering in comparison to sentinel users. Its glorious and awesome! You wont miss your sentinel or your vacuum then! Take a dip in the other side of the pool for a while. You seem to know what your talking about with in game mechanics, so I doubt the upkeep on companions will be any kind of real expense for you. Try it. 

Trust me, its pretty green over here. 

[JuicyPop]

1 hour ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

What are you spending plat on breeding for? You really dont need too. The only time I spend plat on breeding kubrows is if I have a buyer for a lotus print that wants it now, and already agreed to my asking price plus the cost of rushing incubation. Otherwise I just put it in the oven and wait the day out doing something else. 

It would be nice if we got lotus prints on kavats though, might revitalise the companion trade! 

I think the thing we really need more than a vacuum for companions is some more mods for companions to improve their utility a little (like a mod that copies Oberons old passive, and turns ferals against your opponents!). But beyond vacuum I cant think of anything other than stuff sentinels already do, and we have sentinels for that. Its a trade off, and one that is seen throughout warframe in nearly every other aspect of the game. Something is always traded off, crits for status, speed for damage and so on. 

Im arguing against it so that DE is never forced to look at companions with vacuum and say "those are way too effective, nerf time." They would be, just like Mirage and the synoid all over again. Something too effective that changes the meta of the game too a degree that it would require a nerf. We shouldnt grow weeds just so we have something to pull later, is the mindset DE has. 

Of course, but if you're really active on the market then the loss of efficiency is more than made up for with sheer transaction volume. The hope is that if you give more people a reason to use them, then there will actually be more of a market as well. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by JuicyPop

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 hours ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

I made over a 1000 plat in the last month breeding lotus print kubrows. The market is there, you just dont pay any attention to it. Its not big, not a lot of folks are into it, but it is indeed there. Big influx of new players (PoE) means more people interested. 

 As I said, without universal vacuum there will be no new players using and bying kubrows. I don't remember the last time I heard anyone trying to sell a Kubrow in the trade chat. I'm not even talking about bying.

2 hours ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

Hey Apero. 

 

Do you have a Saryn? If you do, build for duration and range. Equip a Smeeta, Load up all your status weapons, build them for the most duration you can and take them for a spin. When your entire screen turns red with everything going red crit (even the status procs!) come back and tell me companion users are suffering in comparison to sentinel users. Its glorious and awesome! You wont miss your sentinel or your vacuum then! Take a dip in the other side of the pool for a while. You seem to know what your talking about with in game mechanics, so I doubt the upkeep on companions will be any kind of real expense for you. Try it. 

Trust me, its pretty green over here. 

I deleted my Saryn. Mast****tion simulator gameplay is no fun for me. And she doesn't need more damage. For the existing content she's strong enough without a random smeeta that charms crit occasionally and completely unreliably. You can't make a build around it. You can't trust charm to work whenever it's needed. So who cares if once a year Saryn overdamages with it? It's not worth losing the conveniences Sentinels provide. Definitely not worth losing vacuum for it.

 Listen, we're not even discussing what's better - sentinels or pets. It's not the issue here. The real issue is simple:

Sentinels have vacuum and they are overwhelmingly more popular than pets because pets don't have vacuum.

 This is the heart of the issue I've been bringing up.^ Pets can't compete and people can't play with them because they don't want to lose the Quality of Life that makes the game so much better in general.
 

Edited November 11, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Xarteros]

9 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Pets aren't better than sentinels in any way shape or form. If anything, greater popularity of the sentinels attracted more devs' attention to them providing more mods, more primes, more upgrades and primed buffs. More cosmetics, more utility, better weapons, rivens for those weapons. More variety. 

 Compared to that pets barely have a couple of relatively popular breeds like smeeta and huras and a bunch of niche underused ones, some of which are so bugged in the brains (AI) department that they don't work at all (I'm looking at you, Chesa). Even with UV pets would still have a ton of issues. Without UV they're mostly worthless and will never be used even on the level of the most underused of sentinels. 

Again, I have yet to see a sentinel kill a level 80 juggernaut in one hit. Sentinels are ok, but they only provide trivial bonuses. Carrier is great for running weapons with poor ammo economy, and the Diriga is great for a bit of CC, but largely the other sentinels are incredibly redundant or outright useless. As far as sentinel guns go, the only really worthwhile ones are the Vulklok sniper, for decent range, and the Sweeper/Prime shotugn, for decent AoE status proccing. Almost all the people I know can't stand the sentinel guns, and the few that ever consider using them are constantly complaining to the rest of us about mod conflicts. 

Kubrows and Kavats on the other hand, are not just survivable, but much higher damage, and overall have more helpful abilities. Sahasa gets you amazing finisher attacks (the sort that kill heavy units at high level with complete ease) as well as frequent loot drops (normally including numerous energy orbs in one spot). Sunika gets you the same finisher attack. Huras stealth is more than twice the range of the Shade sentinel. Raksa gets a really good AoE fear, as well as shield restore. Ardaza Kavats get to add 60% bonus crit chance as an additive value to all attacks, which is outright godly on so many weapons, scaling crits up entire tiers, and this functions in an AoE. Smeeta kavats can outright boost all crits to orange tier, or can double your loot, and a whole bunch of stuff.

All of this is whilst being incredibly tanky, revivable, doing solid damage that scales quite well into late game, and being able to be rapidly healed with a few melee hits.

Saying Pets aren't better than sentinels in "any way shape or form" is a poorly misinformed statement. Look, you don't like using them, that's fine. But, you can't ignore the areas where they demonstrably excel over Sentinels. I don't like Sentinels, but I don't try to pretend that nobody uses them, or that they're somehow inferior in literally every way, because they aren't. They're simply less combat-focused, and more tactical and QoL focused.

If Kubrows and Kavats got a universal vacuum, or if it was applied without need for companions, I don't really think Sentinels would be used much at all. The only thing that really holds people back is the fact that they don't want to have to freeze/thaw their pets to prevent damage, but that's not even much of an issue at all.

9 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

First of all, PICKING UP LOOT IS NOT A SKILL. IT DOESN'T MAKE THE GAME HARDER OR MORE COMPLICATED.
It only makes the gameplay less focused and more tedious. 

 Warframe is already an arcade - with or without UV. And people aready have an option of only ever using vacuum. UV won't change anything in that department. The only thing UV would do is allow players who only enjoy warframe with vacuum (which is the absolute majority of the playerbase) play with pets same way they play with sentinels. Otherwise UV wouldn't change anything else for the game in general. You're opposing a lost battle. Vacuum is already in the game. Looting system is already "casual".

 The only difference is if we'll be allowed to use pets freely or not.

 For an action game like warframe with infinite inventory loot might just as well be instantly given to the players. There's nothing bad about it. The only difference is that it would feel like a part of the game is missing. Not the manual looting part tho - nobody's gonna miss that sh*t. Even you wouldn't. Looting has a auditorial feedback that clicks positively in the players' brain. That's why it has to be in the game. But it doesn't have to be manual picking up every individual item. Fof a game like Warframe it's an incredibly stupid idea. 

 Vacuum is a system implemented in various games when there are lots of individual loot items scattered on the level and picking them up manually would artifically halt the progression of the game and feel tedious in general. A lot of games have vacuum inbuilt in their looting systems without any drawbacks. Take "Nier: Automata" andr "Rachet and Clack". Both games have hundreds of individual loot pickups scattered over the levels. Both have vacuum-like systems to pick those items up.

 Vacuum doesn't cheapen the gameplay. It allows players to focus on the expierience.

Of course not, looting is not a skill based mechanic. It's an effort based mechanic. If you're doing some crazy farming scheme where you sit still and never do anything but spam, you don't deserve your loot. If you're actively moving around and killing, you're picking up your loot as you go already. 

I know Warframe already has arcade-like elements, but that doesn't mean it deserves to become more so. If you're going to argue for a universal vacuum, then you might as well just argue for loot to be automatically acquired (except for energy/ammo/health).

I really don't think that looting without a sentinel is difficult in any way, and we've already been handed a 3m vacuum for warframes, so you don't even need to hit the precise hitbox to loot stuff. I think if you're spending that much time focusing on loot and grinding, you aren't even playing the game to enjoy it regardless. That's why I play missions by trialling new builds, tactics or team compositions. We get whatever resources we need while we practice, and we get a lot more enjoyment out of it than some people seem to be having.

I get why people want Universal Vacuum. I get why you're arguing for it. It wouldn't be a deal-breaker if we had it, but it's something I would prefer to not have, and I'm voicing my opinion on this thread so that it's understood that not everyone is all for it. If the vocal forum members got everything they wanted without people speaking out against it, the game would be utterly horrible. This isn't as big of an issue, but it's still just something I feel I should state my piece on.

Please try to be more considerate, since everyone's opinion is their own, and try to refrain from such strong hyperbole. It's not very constructive, and isn't likely to change anyone's mind the way rational conversation will. 

[Campaigner]

I would love to use animal pets more but I enjoy spending more time in the fight and not walking up to every bit of loot.... so I just keep sentinels on at all times.

[Top_Kekkonen]

It really seems like every player I play with uses some kind of sentinel, I rarely see anyone use animal companions. Univac(12m) should have been added with parkour 2.0.

[SpinnningSideKick]

5 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 As I said, without universal vacuum there will be no new players using and bying kubrows. I don't remember the last time I heard anyone trying to sell a Kubrow in the trade chat. I'm not even talking about bying.

I deleted my Saryn. Mast****tion simulator gameplay is no fun for me. And she doesn't need more damage. For the existing content she's strong enough without a random smeeta that charms crit occasionally and completely unreliably. You can't make a build around it. You can't trust charm to work whenever it's needed. So who cares if once a year Saryn overdamages with it? It's not worth losing the conveniences Sentinels provide. Definitely not worth losing vacuum for it.

 Listen, we're not even discussing what's better - sentinels or pets. It's not the issue here. The real issue is simple:

Sentinels have vacuum and they are overwhelmingly more popular than pets because pets don't have vacuum.

 This is the heart of the issue I've been bringing up.^ Pets can't compete and people can't play with them because they don't want to lose the Quality of Life that makes the game so much better in general.
 

I see folks advertising lotus prints about every other day in trade chat. Its not common, you are right there, but they do show up. Im selling them, for pretty good plat I might add. The folks that want them find a way to get them. What they do with them after the sale is none of my business, my business is just selling them. I freely admit its a boom and bust business, hardly regular enough to actually call a business, but never the less I still make plat doing it. 

I was just using Saryn as an example of what can be done with companions capabilities. But it worked just the same. You acknowledge that "she dosnt need more damage" and further add its unreliable. Charms damage buff is only one aspect of its capability. It does a lot more, up too and including a resource boost which is random, but regular, every 9.5 minutes, thats 4 times it will proc on an 8 round run ( not even really a long run by a lot of folks standards)

So you dont want to play Saryn because shes too powerful and it distracts from the game play.  Okay. Fair point, even as shes not regarded as one of the most powerful frames anymore. If she is, Im not seeing it. I only see her in use once in a while, and certainly dont see many folks saying shes one of the best anymore. Definitely not showing up in another forum thread today of most popular and useful, or even just favourite warframes in current use. Im seeing a lot of Loki, Octavia and Chroma being talked about in recent threads. 

So despite it being too powerful for you to play as its no fun, you want this to be more popular and more common (from more people, and new players using them) with additional benefits? 

You would then be advocating for a game mechanic that takes away from not only your own game, but everyone else that uses them. That isnt quality of life, thats just straight up ruining the game. The very opposite of your own goal. 

This is exactly why I argue against it. The companions are already quite powerful and effective( they definitely have less utility than sentinels, but are still effective), adding to them would turn the game into a  "mast****tion simulator"  (in your own words). 

 

 

 

[GreyEnneract]

10 hours ago, JuicyPop said:

It's as if the people arguing against it dont understand that we already have it.

We're not really arguing for vacuum, we just want an environment where other companions don't come with the awful downside of losing access to the best single mod in the game.

edit: I just want one good reason to shovelback into breeding because right now it's a lot of tedium and expense without as much utility as you would expect.

Like I said earlier, Archwing has had Univac and even universal energy regen for years already.
Didn't see anyone up in arms about that.