Fears / Exploits About A Future Marketplace System - Don't Do It De

[pdxdubin]

Don't do it.

 

Buying mods for platinum, and selling them for platinum.

You said you were afraid of exploits, so let me tell you how this will go wrong.

 

1. There will be no incentive to play the game and farm these mods / play new content

 

2. Your not making money off this, players are. 

 

3. The possibility of certain mods being monopolized, and bottle necked into high prices is VERY high.

 

3: Continued - ( Numbers are exaggerated ) 

 

- Depending on how you do this system, some people could end up with 10,000+ Platinum daily.

With what I gathered from your explanation on the live stream.

It is very easy to exploit a marketplace, 

 

Think about someone buying 10k platinum, And they start to buy, hmm maybe the multi shot mods, vitality mods, serration mods, hornet strike mods.  Etc.

It may be possible to continue to purchase all of these mods as they come in, and set their own prices.

Possibly doubling or tripple their own profit, changing the economy of the game on their own. 

meaning that every time someone tries to under cut this person, They can buy the mod themselves, and increase the price by 500-1000% 

 

Its not as hard as it sounds.

 

HOWEVER - If this turns into a micromanaged economy, controlled by DE

Its going to be as stale as the marketplace in runescape for a while,  You might as well just start selling all the mods in the marketplace and take the platinum for yourself.

 

I don't know the specifics, but this is a HORRIBLE idea.

 

It may seem cool to the new players, because I suspect that most of the popular mods will sell for 2-5 platnum each.

But if this market place is user controlled then the possibility of bloating the prices is massive.

MEANING the value of platinum will also go to ******t

if a gifting system is implemented where people don't have to directly buy the gifts, but can use their platinum.

That can and will be exploited by profit farmers. 

 

ALSO - CLAN DOJOS 

 

If one of these people happen to be in a clan, I expect the amount of platinum they can make will be in the range of

100k - 1 million platinum monthly.  

 

Since we can buy resources, the content will be rushed in a day.

A single player can have a 1 person clan and would be able to build everything effortlessly. 

 

Now, I know a lot of you want "Trading"

A market place is not the answer.

I agree with the in match trading, being able to maybe swap mods out at the end of the match.

Maybe similar to the role switch system in league of legends, where we can pick mods and ask people if they want to swap.

At the end of the match.

THAT SOUNDS PERFECT, and would promote team building. 

 

Usually when games come out, With marketplaces.

The market places are built into the game as soon as it comes out.

There are far too many people back from pre U7 with 500+ Rare fusion cores.

 

Its too late for a marketplace, and its not smart to have one.

It will be exploited, and it will ruin the stagnant economy that is already in place.

 

My point.

 

I don't mind a trading system, But I "fear" that adding a marketplace to this game, will absolutely devalue 70% of the content in this game. 

And if it is done in a way to put money in DE's pocket.

Well I will lose a lot of respect then.

Sorry If I came off kinda harsh, and I know we don't know too much about it.

I just want to state some of my fears, so that hopefully this system is pushed away from this direction.

 

I will be here for a while if you want to discuss this, or convince me otherwise, 

 

But I think this is a bad idea. 

 

 

TL;dr: 

 

- Market place will be exploited 

 

- Platinum values will go down ( marketplace items will get more expensive )

 

- Game will become pointless ( you can just go buy the blaze mod for 10 plat )

 

- Game turns into Pay to Win ( Dont BS me, sure you can farm these new mods, but honestly you know you will just buy it )

 

- Dojos will be exploited

 

- People are going to start walking around with 100k+ Platinum

 

I have, and still do exploit the market places in a lot of games,

I don't do it for money and I'm no where near as rich as some of the gold farmers,

 

But I know how these systems work and how easy they are to exploit.

 

This is warframe not a stock market 

 

Keep the game fun, Keep the grind, keep the feeling you get after getting Blaze after 40 hours of farming.

Edited July 29, 2013 by pdxdubin

[bosstnt]

When did DE say that platinum would be at all tradable? Or that people will sell items to each other for platinum?

Edited July 29, 2013 by bosstnt

[pdxdubin]

When did DE say that platinum would be at all tradable?

 

Live stream

DE_steve I think said they were doing a marketplace where you can buy and sell items for platinum.

 

I turned my head to it for a while,

 

But now that I think about it, It bothers me. 

 

He would not have brought it up, if it was not in the works. 

Edited July 29, 2013 by pdxdubin

[Draco208]

But most players don't have a lot of time to sit down and farm some mods; i agree with what your trying to get at. Think it over DE

:

[Ronkyu]

nope

[pdxdubin]

But most players don't have a lot of time to sit down and farm some mods; i agree with what your trying to get at. Think it over DE

:

 

Honestly

 

These players don't deserve the mods then...

 

 

Some people don't have the time to farm the void.

 

Lets sell prime gear.

 

Same thing.

[Feldgrep]

Trade mods and bps. No plat, no creds involved. Just mods and bps. And do something to prevent having 50 alts doing potato alerts and trading to one main account.

[Blatantfool]

The ultimate truth is that the Advantages to trading outweigh the Disadvantages.

 

 This includes a market. Market is trading too.

 

 

 Will it be perfect? Not at first - but we can give the feedback that fixes/changes it for the better. Just like always.

[pdxdubin]

Trade mods and bps. No plat, no creds involved. Just mods and bps. And do something to prevent having 50 alts doing potato alerts and trading to one main account.

 

I think this should be something within the dojo

 

Or something that can only happen while your still in a match.

 

Maybe after the match is over.

 

Like I said a trading system, like how you swap champions in league of legends.

 

You could see the mods your team has

 

Pick it, then click on your mod and say hey wana swap these?

 

 

But outside of the game it would have to be something that maybe the clan can use.

 

Like maybe people can do like adds in the clan, like a CLAN ONLY marketplace

 

where they go to a bulletin board, tell people what they want ( Put up an add )

 

And someone can go in and trade this mod for that mod

 

Or blue prints.

 

No creds

No plat

 

Those need to be left out of player economy. 

[pdxdubin]

The ultimate truth is that the Advantages to trading outweigh the Disadvantages.

 

 This includes a market. Market is trading too.

 

 

 Will it be perfect? Not at first - but we can give the feedback that fixes/changes it for the better. Just like always.

 

Still 

 

There are ways to do this, like my post above ^

This could be a clan only market place,

Or something like that.

That way its more consolidated within separate communities and cannot be exploited as easily. 

 

 

Like I said these are just my fears. 

 

 

Edit: Another one of my old points

 

Is that I don't hate it,

 

But instead of DE releasing things that are already broken.

It would be nice to let us know about it / discuss it and improve on the idea based on feedback.

Either way works, its there game.

But its a bad habit to just release things and see what goes wrong.

 

When the game exits Beta, they cannot just continue to do this. 

Edited July 29, 2013 by pdxdubin

[Blatantfool]

Still 

 

There are ways to do this, like my post above ^

This could be a clan only market place,

Or something like that.

That way its more consolidated within separate communities and cannot be exploited as easily. 

 

 

Like I said these are just my fears. 

 

 Nah - If DE is going to do this they need to just go all the way.

 

 Swapping dropped mods at the end of a round? We need that.

 Trading mods among Clan-mates? Sounds great.

 

 'Market' system where players post Mods up for trade offers - be it credits/materials/mods? Sounds absolutely peachy.

 

 

 Most people here on the forums aren't going to be comfortable making the jump because the leap is massive - 'growing a marketplace' is an enormous step for a game if it wasn't originally going to have one.

 

 It is going to be something we need to ride out with DE. Let this all happen then give as much good and honest feedback as we can. 

[direcyphre]

@OP I think you are reaching a bit on the words that were stated in the previous livestreams. There is nothing concrete as to the nature of this possible future marketplace, nor any details whatsoever dictating how it will precisely operate. I personally don't like trading whatsoever, but I will be waiting to see what they come up with. I'm sure they have a lot of things in mind, especially regarding exploits of any kind. At the very least, preventing the onslaught of goldfarming.

Edited July 29, 2013 by direcyphre

[Blatantfool]

I think you are reaching a bit on the words that were stated in the previous livestreams. There is nothing concrete as to the nature of this possible future marketplace, nor any details whatsoever dictating how it will precisely operate. I personally don't like trading whatsoever, but I will be waiting to see what they come up with. I'm sure they have a lot of things in mind, especially regarding exploits of any kind. At the very least, preventing the onslaught of goldfarming.

 

 This is a similar place to where I am at. I'll be fine with it if they actually take the leap - I just expect them to buckle down and make that puppy work right once it is here. Moreso then usual.

[pdxdubin]

 Nah - If DE is going to do this they need to just go all the way.

 

 Swapping dropped mods at the end of a round? We need that.

 Trading mods among Clan-mates? Sounds great.

 

 'Market' system where players post Mods up for trade offers - be it credits/materials/mods? Sounds absolutely peachy.

 

 

 Most people here on the forums aren't going to be comfortable making the jump because the leap is massive - 'growing a marketplace' is an enormous step for a game if it wasn't originally going to have one.

 

 It is going to be something we need to ride out with DE. Let this all happen then give as much good and honest feedback as we can. 

Exactly

 

I'm not against this

 

Well I am to the standard marketplace system.

 

I just wanted to give some feedback on things that broke other games, and I would hate to see it happen with warframe.

 

In game trading is great

 

marketplace is great if it is done well and they think through all the exploits without making it boring. 

[SwordAxeMace]

Have to agree that, while it sounds like a good concept, we should not have a market place. DE_Steve mentioned that one of the reasons we have 12h, 1d, 3d build times is because instant gratification is not as rewarding as going through some hard work of farming mats, bps, and then finally watching whatever you're building coming to fruition. I'd honestly love to trade one of my 7 Hell's Chambers for a Split Chamber that I still don't have but I will jump with joy the day I finally get one, so what was more rewarding? Buying it or farming for it?

[pdxdubin]

@OP I think you are reaching a bit on the words that were stated in the previous livestreams. There is nothing concrete as to the nature of this possible future marketplace, nor any details whatsoever dictating how it will precisely operate. I personally don't like trading whatsoever, but I will be waiting to see what they come up with. I'm sure they have a lot of things in mind, especially regarding exploits of any kind. At the very least, preventing the onslaught of goldfarming.

 

Exactly 

 

I agree with you

 

I am only against the standard free economy market place, we know nothing about this

 

So I just wanted to start up a thread

 

Maybe someone from DE will read it and say

 

Oh hey can someone really do this?

 

Who knows, Just some feedback, this is what the forums are for. 

[Blatantfool]

Exactly

 

I'm not against this

 

Well I am to the standard marketplace system.

 

I just wanted to give some feedback on things that broke other games, and I would hate to see it happen with warframe.

 

In game trading is great

 

marketplace is great if it is done well and they think through all the exploits without making it boring. 

 

 Honestly I'll be stoked if they let me do something like, say:

 

-Post a Mod, lets say 'Hell's Chamber' on the Market.

 

-Players can send me offers for my card.

 

-I can mark it saying 'No Material offers' or 'No Credit offers', meaning I'm only interested in trading my mod for other mod cards.

 

-Some dude offers me 50 Hellfire, I turn him down with one click.

 

-Another dude offered me Rage, which I'd like to own, I take him up on it and the mods swap without a hitch.

[Jamescell]

Uhhhh... leme think... No

[pdxdubin]

Have to agree that, while it sounds like a good concept, we should not have a market place. DE_Steve mentioned that one of the reasons we have 12h, 1d, 3d build times is because instant gratification is not as rewarding as going through some hard work of farming mats, bps, and then finally watching whatever you're building coming to fruition. I'd honestly love to trade one of my 7 Hell's Chambers for a Split Chamber that I still don't have but I will jump with joy the day I finally get one, so what was more rewarding? Buying it or farming for it?

 

Once you buy it, and start using it you will forget about it.

 

Which was one of my main points in this thread

 

Is not about exploits.

Exactly as you said, instant gratification 

 

I don't enjoy farming.  But I enjoy the end results and it makes me warm and tingly.

 

And honestly if the option is there to just buy stuff without working for it, I will probably just buy it.

 

And I think that would ruin some of the core elements that make this game addicting.

 

Buy everything in an hour ( play the game for a few hours )

 

Work for everything ( your playing the game for months )

 

Farming is fun, Progression keeps people interested. 

[pdxdubin]

 Honestly I'll be stoked if they let me do something like, say:

 

-Post a Mod, lets say 'Hell's Chamber' on the Market.

 

-Players can send me offers for my card.

 

-I can mark it saying 'No Material offers' or 'No Credit offers', meaning I'm only interested in trading my mod for other mod cards.

 

-Some dude offers me 50 Hellfire, I turn him down with one click.

 

-Another dude offered me Rage, which I'd like to own, I take him up on it and the mods swap without a hitch.

 

EXACTLY

 

 

But I think this should also be consolidated within clans.

So that you can post something in the dojo, say "hey I got this, anyone wana trade for it"

 

Someone can reply to your add, either trading for what you want, or making an offer.

 

It would be fun and rewarding, and would not be as stagnant as browsing through 100's of prime chamber mods, to see which one is 1 platinum cheaper.

 

Which is what I hope they don't do.

And the reason I started this thread. 

[Blatantfool]

A Market doesn't really have to get in the way of that stuff pdx. It is remarkably simple to just mark completed items - like Weapons and Warframes - so they can't be traded.

 

 In fact - if they simply market ALL the BPs and items you can buy from the market already as 'Untradeable' then all you've be able to trade is stuff people get as drops.

[pdxdubin]

Uhhhh... leme think... No

 

I don't even..

 

no what? 

[Blatantfool]

EXACTLY

 

 

But I think this should also be consolidated within clans.

So that you can post something in the dojo, say "hey I got this, anyone wana trade for it"

 

Someone can reply to your add, either trading for what you want, or making an offer.

 

It would be fun and rewarding, and would not be as stagnant as browsing through 100's of prime chamber mods, to see which one is 1 platinum cheaper.

 

Which is what I hope they don't do.

And the reason I started this thread. 

 

 I think it'd be a pretty meaningless limitation to force all market action to exist only within clans.

 

 However I'd expect and be greatly in favor of a method built into the market that lets you use your clan as a filter.

 

 So if you really wanted to keep everything within your own clan all you needed to do was click the right button.

 

 

 Imagine how much GOOD it would do the players to have the issue of "I've farmed 3 days for the systems of X Warframe" become "I couldn't get the drop myself so I found a guy on the market willing to part with it for a few half-decent mods as he cleaned out his foundry."

[P.s.Y]

Gentlemen.

We are facing a tipping point in Warframe's life where history will look back and decide why this game succeeded or failed.

This game's tradeables are not substantial enough for a market of this nature to thrive. These goods are only labeled "rare" by the sheer fact that they are an uncommon occurrence in an otherwise very predictable world.

We do not share mobs, because levels are instanced. We do not have the items hidden from us, because the game tells us exactly where to look. We don't have to gamble because we have nothing to lose in exchange, and we have no fear of failure because all drops are certain whether it be now or later.

A market mechanic would undermine the fundamental core of the game's mechanics. People would no longer have to play to actually get anything; why bother, you can get it on the market. The capitalistic spirits would flock to the grind and pump out rarities and soon the word "Rare" would be a term describing a tier of value instead of a tier of sparsity. With nothing to look forward to people will grow complacent, and that is where things get sour. Happy people don't work, and if people aren't playing, then the game will die.

Everything one would gain from adding a market would strip from what makes Warframe the growing success it's becoming. Trivializing the game to satisfy a vocal minority would spite the masses who choose to gain the reward from the sweat of their labor. In the end, half will grow bored, the others will grow angry and everyone will will start spiriting away.

TL;DR : Market will trivialize everything about the game. Don't do it.

Diablo did and now it's a ghost town.

((http://techland.time.com/2013/03/28/diablo-3-director-admits-auction-houses-really-hurt-game/)

Edited July 29, 2013 by P.s.Y

[Blatantfool]

^ That example would only really mean something if DE had said they wanted to just copy/paste D3's market.

 

 Which is something I certainly don't recall.