Needed Focus Changes

[Almagnus1]

Here are changes that the focus system needs:

• All Focus gains are doubled from their current values
• All Focus points are now universal, and all lenses lose their school association
• Lenses can be removed with Eidolon Shards or Platinum.
• Daily Cap is changed to Daily Bonus, and you earn 2x focus until you have earned enough bonus, then it reverts to 1x focus for all remaining gains that day
• Daily Bonus Cap is tied to MR at 50k * MR
• Waybound nodes are changed so you only have to pay the waybound cost once, and the node is available for all schools
• Focus pool is completely removed
• Unlocking a node lets you toggle it on (or off) and all nodes default to an on state
• You can spend platinum or Eidolon Shards to refund the focus points in any school

There's no reason why the current system shouldn't have all of these changes, and all of these changes would GREATLY improve the current state of the focus grind into something that casual players would want to invest time into.

[Kalvorax]

51 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Waybound nodes are changed so you only have to pay the waybound cost once, and the node is available for all schools

so how it is now....unless you mean something else?
 

54 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Unlocking a node lets you toggle it on (or off) and all nodes default to an on state

hmmm, so we would have every node active by default? so more or less reversed of what it is now?

 

 

55 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

• All Focus gains are doubled from their current values
• All Focus points are now universal, and all lenses lose their school association
• Daily Cap is changed to Daily Bonus, and you earn 2x focus until you have earned enough bonus, then it reverts to 1x focus for all remaining gains that day

I would be fine with this. though based on that last part would that then be x4 times the current value (due to x2 the current value by default)?
 

 

56 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

You can spend platinum or Eidolon Shards to refund the focus points in any school

 

56 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Lenses can be removed with Eidolon Shards or Platinum.

would be a good use for shards.

[Almagnus1]

45 minutes ago, Kalvorax said:

so how it is now....unless you mean something else?

As I understand it, you have to pay the waybound cost for each school you want the node in, rather than pay it once and have it unlocked for all schools.  The waybound cost should definitely be the latter, not the former.

Quote

hmmm, so we would have every node active by default? so more or less reversed of what it is now?

They'd be active once they're bought (as you still have to buy the node and then rank it up).

I can't think of a good reason why you'd want to buy a node and keep it inactive - so removing that pointless behavior would actually cut a lot of grind out of the focus trees as you need like 3M focus just to get enough pool to have everything enabled at maximum rank.  Even condensing the pool down to one universal pool for all trees would remove the need to grind out 12M focus points across the other four schools.

Quote

I would be fine with this. though based on that last part would that then be x4 times the current value (due to x2 the current value by default)?

Yes, and then it'd drop off to x2 of the current rate gain once you exceed the current daily cap.  Essentially, focus behaves more like rested XP in MMOs and doesn't prevent you from continuing to level once it's exhausted.

The problem with the current focus system is that it takes too long to grind it out, and this would greatly accelerate the grind duration.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Almagnus1

[VirtualViolet]

43 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

As I understand it, you have to pay the waybound cost for each school you want the node in

You pay the cost to unbind the node once, and it is available to activate in all other schools. However, you still need the "pool" capacity in each school to be able to activate it. This "pool" capacity is what Scott talked about, in Devstream #100, and making it universal (so you'd spend focus in any school to unlock more capacity, then you could use that capacity in your active school to activate nodes).

Also mentioned in Devstream #100 was removing the hard cap on daily focus gains and making into a soft cap, so that focus gains below the current cap would be much faster, and once you reach the soft cap, gains would slow down again, but not stop.

So, this is stuff the devs are already working on (presumably). As for making all focus gains universal, as far as I know, this isn't something being considered, and I don't think it's "necessary" (or even a good idea) like the above two changes. Thematically, having the focus points specific to each school just makes sense, as you're "focusing" your effort towards one way or school of thought. Mechanically, the lenses and methods of gaining focus are identical regardless of the school, but thematically, it makes more sense to have separate points for each school.

Anyway, here are my thoughts on the rest of the OP (my thoughts in italics):

2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

• All Focus gains are doubled from their current values (covered)
• All Focus points are now universal, and all lenses lose their school association (eh, don't agree here, see above)
• Lenses can be removed with Eidolon Shards or Platinum. (fair point)
• Daily Cap is changed to Daily Bonus, and you earn 2x focus until you have earned enough bonus, then it reverts to 1x focus for all remaining gains that day (covered)
• Daily Bonus Cap is tied to MR at 50k * MR (maybe? I don't have a problem with this, it just doesn't really seem necessary with the above changes to the cap)
• Waybound nodes are changed so you only have to pay the waybound cost once, and the node is available for all schools (already works that way? unless you mean the capacity requirement, which is covered above)
• Focus pool is completely removed (I think the universal pool capacity discussed above will be enough to address this)
• Unlocking a node lets you toggle it on (or off) and all nodes default to an on state (I'm assuming this is assuming you get rid of pool capacity)
• You can spend platinum or Eidolon Shards to refund the focus points in any school (fair point)

EDIT: General thoughts...The change that allowed us to turn in brilliant shards for 25k focus each has been a major boon for "no lifers" like myself, and has already cut off huge swathes of grinding for me. I'm already closing in on unbinding all the way-bound passives, and the main bottleneck I'm having now is increasing my pool capacity to activate them all (in Zenurik). So, in my opinion, the two changes that the devs (I think) are already working on will be enough to address the major problems with focus as it stands. Going too far past that would make focus too trivial for the end-game advancement that it's supposed to be.

Edited November 13, 2017 by VirtualViolet

[Almagnus1]

4 hours ago, VirtualViolet said:

You pay the cost to unbind the node once, and it is available to activate in all other schools. However, you still need the "pool" capacity in each school to be able to activate it. This "pool" capacity is what Scott talked about, in Devstream #100, and making it universal (so you'd spend focus in any school to unlock more capacity, then you could use that capacity in your active school to activate nodes).

The entire pool capacity concept makes zero sense.  Name two nodes that you'd want to level and then disable, or two nodes that need to be unlocked and then disabled.

The only reason why the pool exists is to add more grind to your grind.

4 hours ago, VirtualViolet said:

Also mentioned in Devstream #100 was removing the hard cap on daily focus gains and making into a soft cap, so that focus gains below the current cap would be much faster, and once you reach the soft cap, gains would slow down again, but not stop.

As long as it's a one time degrade (ie: Rest XP) then that's fine.  But without any real word on the forum, this is going to be like the two year old tweet where "it's temporary" (but five years later it's still unchanged).

4 hours ago, VirtualViolet said:

So, this is stuff the devs are already working on (presumably). As for making all focus gains universal, as far as I know, this isn't something being considered, and I don't think it's "necessary" (or even a good idea) like the above two changes.

Unless there's a way to recover the lenses, players are punished for experimentation with a tree.  Compare this to how easily it is to experiment with weapons and warframes.

4 hours ago, VirtualViolet said:

Thematically, having the focus points specific to each school just makes sense, as you're "focusing" your effort towards one way or school of thought. Mechanically, the lenses and methods of gaining focus are identical regardless of the school, but thematically, it makes more sense to have separate points for each school.

Eh, not really.  There's no reason to have five different XP bars in a system where you're just gaining focus.

And plus, if you study a martial art, just because you're focusing on jujitsu doesn't mean you can't apply what you're learning to aikido or karate.

4 hours ago, VirtualViolet said:

EDIT: General thoughts...The change that allowed us to turn in brilliant shards for 25k focus each has been a major boon for "no lifers" like myself, and has already cut off huge swathes of grinding for me. I'm already closing in on unbinding all the way-bound passives, and the main bottleneck I'm having now is increasing my pool capacity to activate them all (in Zenurik). So, in my opinion, the two changes that the devs (I think) are already working on will be enough to address the major problems with focus as it stands. Going too far past that would make focus too trivial for the end-game advancement that it's supposed to be.

Maybe you need to look at this from a casual's perspective, and not that of a no lifer =/

As the focus grind stands now, unless they do something to boost the focus accrued, the entire system is absolutely not worth the time investment because even with the operator fully maxed out with a tricked out amp, the operate isn't worth using when compared to what your warframe can do.

This is the exact same issue with Hema - you spend a ton of time gathering samples for a weapon that's MR fodder.

Neither are worth the time investment because the end result is this subpar thing that doesn't justified the hours of time invested to get it.

[Yagamilight123]

The only part of the "suggestion" that make sense its the posibility to unbind lens and to reset the points .... the other are just a lazy person that want to do less for more . Its pretty easy and fast reach the Cap (maybe 30 min) so its no necesary to make it more easy .

[Almagnus1]

32 minutes ago, Yagamilight123 said:

The only part of the "suggestion" that make sense its the posibility to unbind lens and to reset the points .... the other are just a lazy person that want to do less for more . Its pretty easy and fast reach the Cap (maybe 30 min) so its no necesary to make it more easy .

That's only if you build a warframe specifically for focus farming - which means the system is screwed up.

[Yagamilight123]

4 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

That's only if you build a warframe specifically for focus farming - which means the system is screwed up.

So you are saying that you need to put some effort ? ....ye... 

[Almagnus1]

8 hours ago, Yagamilight123 said:

So you are saying that you need to put some effort ? ....ye... 

I'm saying that getting only 10k focus for doing a set of three sorties is screwed up.

Overall focus gains are too low, which is really bad when the end result of the focus grind is not worth the effort because Sentients mop the floor with the operator while the Grineer ask the kids for more back scratches.

[Yagamilight123]

34 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

I'm saying that getting only 10k focus for doing a set of three sorties is screwed up.

Overall focus gains are too low, which is really bad when the end result of the focus grind is not worth the effort because Sentients mop the floor with the operator while the Grineer ask the kids for more back scratches.

You seems to have a hard time to notice that you need to farm focus , not just simple get it without doing nothing (in a normal mision lvl30-35 , you can gain more 10 k with only one bonus orb playing alone without even eidolons lens ...) ... Sorties are a bunch of people rushing to the objetive .

... again you put your fails on the system . Operators can be a lot takier (2k+ health) ,but even if they werent , he has a specific purpose .... and its not to replace or being an option for the use of your frame and weapons .

Edited November 14, 2017 by Yagamilight123

[Almagnus1]

1 hour ago, Yagamilight123 said:

You seems to have a hard time to notice that you need to farm focus , not just simple get it without doing nothing (in a normal mision lvl30-35 , you can gain more 10 k with only one bonus orb playing alone without even eidolons lens ...) ... Sorties are a bunch of people rushing to the objetive .

Or maybe you aren't realizing that needing to do focus farming just to make the operator not complete fail is the real issue ehre.

1 hour ago, Yagamilight123 said:

Operators can be a lot takier (2k+ health) ,but even if they werent , he has a specific purpose .... and its not to replace or being an option for the use of your frame and weapons .

Without focus farming, all you need to do with Focus 2.0 is select the Zenurik school, get enough focus to max out the Warframe energy regen traits, and leave the rest of the system behind.  There is zero other point in even screwing with the focus system because (outside of Eidolons) it's a wholly unneeded system.

In other words, Focus 2.0 is just as big of a failure as focus 1.0, and people like you are defending this abomination because clearly they just aren't trying hard enough when the reality is the entire focus system is STILL an irredeemable failure.

[Sunder]

Just started a new Focus School...the fact that I have 120 days of hitting the cap every single day ahead of me is pretty soul crushing...

And there's still more schools I haven't even gotten to touch.

[Almagnus1]

1 hour ago, Sunder said:

Just started a new Focus School...the fact that I have 120 days of hitting the cap every single day ahead of me is pretty soul crushing...

And there's still more schools I haven't even gotten to touch.

^== That's why I wrote the OP.