Dual Vipers Good At Late Game?

[Atlas_Smirked]

I've been looking for something to replace my Kunai (and I still have a ways to go before i can build an Acrid) so are the dual vipers good? The Pistol Ammo Changer Thingy mod I got from the event would mitigate the ammo problems. I use a Torid/Snipetron Vandal as my primaries so something close range would be good. Can they hold up in T3 like the Kunai can or is there something else I should look to (not Despair).

[tatcher]

In my opinion the Dual Vipers are way too weak, even with powerful mods.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Dual vipers are a good weapon imo, high burst, so they're not really meant for long fights, more for bursting a boss down, if you want something like that, go for bolto/akbolto (armor ignore, more or less a slower kunai with less damage, no drop)

Edited July 29, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Slurmageddon]

If you have barrel diffusion, and some kickass damage mods, Akbolto have been serving me just fine in late game. Theyre actually my most used weapon

[tatcher]

The Afuris perfrom a lot better than the Dual Vipers, that's at least my experience.

Edited July 29, 2013 by tatcher

[Cruispleuro]

For end game side-arms, I'd recommend (in this order) Acrid, Despair, kunai and Akbolto. They are all armor-ignoring/piercing and can accumulate extremely high damage once fully modded. Now that Acrid's damage over time is affected by hornet strike, it is even more recommendable.

[Letter13]

With the new pistol ammo conversion mod they're great! :D

[Tarudizer]

I find that they do good damage pretty quickly, but you better pray for some pistol ammo (or use the new mod, if you have it) because it doesn't take long before you are out of ammo, and a gun without bullets becomes completely useless.

[tatcher]

For end game side-arms, I'd recommend (in this order) Acrid, Despair, kunai and Akbolto. They are all armor-ignoring/piercing and can accumulate extremely high damage once fully modded. Now that Acrid's damage over time is affected by hornet strike, it is even more recommendable.

That's what the usual player recommends, but these weapons aren't the only good ones, I'm sick of the Kunai and Akbolto/boltor fanboys. Lato/Aklato. Afuris, the new Vasto, Kraken, Hikou and Bronco/Bronco Prime/Dual Bronco's are also very strong sidearms that do amazing work. I would've listed Lex too but sadly it's not as strong as it should be.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

That's what the usual player recommends, but these weapons aren't the only good ones, I'm sick of the Kunai and Akbolto/boltor fanboys. Lato/Aklato. Afuris, the new Vasto, Kraken, Hikou and Bronco/Bronco Prime/Dual Bronco's are also very strong sidearms that do amazing work. I would've listed Lex too but sadly it's not as strong as it should be.

It's that we're fanbois, it's simply what's best. Armor is WAY too strong in this game, and needs a rework, but in the meantime any AP/AI weapons are VERY strong.

[Xievie]

The Twin Vipers do the MOST burst damage in the game, but aren't at all ammo efficient.

I'd only use it if you're one of those min/maxers and want to show off that you can kill a boss in a single clip in just a second or two.

 

Honestly, it's not really good for general gameplay, and the Acrid does enough damage that it won't matter THAT much if you lose a bit of burst DPS.

 

I'd only get Twin Vipers if you've gotten everything you needed and plan to min/max. 

Honestly, I'd focus on getting the Acrid. Use the Despair/Kunai until you manage to make and use the Acrid, but I wouldn't stay with them because they are a bit weaker and make it so that slide attacks do not give a speed boost.

[tatcher]

It's that we're fanbois, it's simply what's best. Armor is WAY too strong in this game, and needs a rework, but in the meantime any AP/AI weapons are VERY strong.

I use all the weapons I listed, they do just as good a job Akbolto or Kunai would do, just shove an armor pierce mod on them and they are equally strong.

And as a sidenote, yes it's called fanboy when you say S#&$ about the weapon they put a knife to your throat and all they do is talk about how amazing those weapons are all the time.

Just like Xbox One and PS4 fanboys.

Edited July 29, 2013 by tatcher

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I use all the weapons I listed, they do just as good a job Akbolto or Kunai would do, just shove an armor pierce mod on them and they are equally strong.

Heh, clearly you're not going to high levels... The AP mod for pistols only does 30%, that's NOTHING for T3 keys/etc. acrid/despair/Kunai/akboloto do the best job (in terms of doing the most reliable damage constantly) out of all the weapons.

[tatcher]

Heh, clearly you're not going to high levels... The AP mod for pistols only does 30%, that's NOTHING for T3 keys/etc. acrid/despair/Kunai/akboloto do the best job (in terms of doing the most reliable damage constantly) out of all the weapons.

I've done my share of T3 without those overrated weapons, so it's not as clear as you say. That 30% seems to be enough to put down heavies at lvl 70 + pretty fast.

And this is exatcly what I meant with fanboys, now that I said bad things about your precious weapons you say that I don't go to high level missions, that I haven't done T3 Void Missions and you're praising the weapons by saying they are so much stronger.

Edited July 29, 2013 by tatcher

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I've done my share of T3 without those overrated weapons, so it's not as clear as you say. That 30% seems to be enough to put down heavies at lvl 70 + pretty fast.

Oh it works, but my despair will generally put heavies down faster than any other sidearm minus the acrid. It's not about what you feel is best, it's what mathematically IS best (i.e. all AP/AI weapons because of how armor scales). The only time where despair falls short is vs light infested, and even then it still does pretty good.

[Seraphiel451]

That's what the usual player recommends, but these weapons aren't the only good ones, I'm sick of the Kunai and Akbolto/boltor fanboys. Lato/Aklato. Afuris, the new Vasto, Kraken, Hikou and Bronco/Bronco Prime/Dual Bronco's are also very strong sidearms that do amazing work. I would've listed Lex too but sadly it's not as strong as it should be.

 

I use all the weapons I listed, they do just as good a job Akbolto or Kunai would do, just shove an armor pierce mod on them and they are equally strong.

And as a sidenote, yes it's called fanboy when you say S#&$ about the weapon they put a knife to your throat and all they do is talk about how amazing those weapons are all the time.

Just like Xbox One and PS4 fanboys.

All of those weapons are good in their own right...but, and its a huge Nova sized butt, they're absolute junk at high end missions.  You have to be  perfectly accurate with head shots or your damage is going to be beyond terrible.  The pistol No Return currently sucks at 30%, you have to have a huge amount of base damage to make it semi worthy.  On that note the Lex and Seer make reasonable alternatives as pocket snipers, just not the best alternatives.  Unfortunately, the more potent sidearms have been listed.

 

None of us, that I have seen so far, are being Fanbois about these weapons.  I for one am utterly bored with the required Despair/Kunai/AKbolto but the Armor Ignore/Armor Pierce is just far to good to pass up on late game missions.  Its the difference between taking a clip or two of ammo to using the entire reserve ammo to take down a single ancient.

 

You on the other hand seem to be either &!$$ed off or on an over dramatic streak while writing your responses.  Might want to calm down a bit before your next response.  Flame away if you need to.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Seraphiel451

[ComCray]

I think it totally depends on what you're ..aiming for.

what kind of mission? what type of enemies? what are the other weapons you're carrying? what frame do you use?

My general go-to frame is a two-star rhino, carrying a Gorgon(****) supported with the twin vipers(**) and a manticored scindo (***).. Most levels below 30 I can pretty much do on my own and the vipers allow me to decimate about any mob that comes at me till lvl 45. With a maxed barrel diffusion, pistol gambit and target cracker it's yellow numbers all over the place..

But like with the Gorgon: be prepared to invest time and patience in it (and forma's), below level 15 and no potato they are utterly useless (like the Gorgon)...

[Dasmir]

Armor says Fuk you !

 

 

 

With the new pistol ammo conversion mod they're great! :D

 

too bad i can buy boxes and use that slot for make my weapon more efficient.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Dasmir

[RoboDoge]

If you want to wet-fart lots of bullets into the enemies faces it is weapon for you. And by wet-fart i mean the sound of it.

[Atlas_Smirked]

I think it totally depends on what you're ..aiming for.

what kind of mission? what type of enemies? what are the other weapons you're carrying? what frame do you use?

My general go-to frame is a two-star rhino, carrying a Gorgon(****) supported with the twin vipers(**) and a manticored scindo (***).. Most levels below 30 I can pretty much do on my own and the vipers allow me to decimate about any mob that comes at me till lvl 45. With a maxed barrel diffusion, pistol gambit and target cracker it's yellow numbers all over the place..

But like with the Gorgon: be prepared to invest time and patience in it (and forma's), below level 15 and no potato they are utterly useless (like the Gorgon)...

From my OP: "I use a Torid/Snipetron Vandal as my primaries so something close range would be good."

 

I have defense missions covered with my Torid and long range in any other mission type covered with the SV. I'm looking for something other than the: Acrid (I now it's good but I'm ML5), Despair (I've farmed Stalker a bunch and only gotten Hate), and I already have Kunai. This much was in the OP.

 

My main frame as of now is Vauban but I'm looking at getting Frost or Banshee as well.

 

I'm not concerned with being able to use my secondary the whole way through a T3 exterminate or whatever as I have my Torid/SV/Hek. I just want something reliable as a side arm that can still function when I need it to at high levels.

[Samur4i_]

Hey mate, Listen. Don't go for stats or wich weapon is more powerful. It's all about PlayStyle and what suits you better. 

Make your own Style. Don't go for the typical weapons like Despair/Kunai/Acrid. YEAH they are really good at late game bla bla bla bla BUT HEY that doesn't mean you have to play that. Want to have so fun ? Go make your own style, make your setup, go read the mods, read the weapons think about what you like and there you go bro ! You're going to have a lot of fun ! (Sorry if my English is bad ) 

Peace !

[finalgenesis]

From a min-maxing perspective:

 

Only armor ignore / armor pierce sidearms are viable >Endgame<. This is because:

 

1. Enemy armor scaling renders normal (bullet) damage to be ineffective, especially Grineer since all their medium / heavies have full body armor scaling vs normal / tri-element. The weapon must either have innate AI / AP damge, or able to acquire enough of it via mods to be effective vs certain enemies, sadly sidearms do not have have the proper mod selection to do it, unlike shotgun for example.

 

2. Sidearm category mods have very weak AP max mod potential, being +30% AP damage from No return. Unlike say shotguns, which have a +150% AP max potential. Hence it is almost impossible to mod a normal (bullet type) damage pistol to be effective against high level armor.

 

The above statement applies generally to sidearm only, not rifle / shotty. It's also a general short answer so you don't have to wade through a wall of text, thus there will be explanations and exceptions missing (eg. Light infested, body parts with no armor scaling, enemies with no armor scaling, racial armor characteristic and behavior ...etc )

 

From a fun perspective:

 

blah blah whatever your style is blah blah,

[BigBadHunkyDaddy]

Twin Vipers are fantastic (or they would be if DE didn't ruin their sound! ARGH!!!). Just bring a LOT of ammo boxes and that new mod. You'll be needing them.

 

Don't listen to the naysayers. 

Edited July 30, 2013 by Balerion84

[Atlas_Smirked]

From a min-maxing perspective:

 

Only armor ignore / armor pierce sidearms are viable >Endgame<. This is because:

 

1. Enemy armor scaling renders normal (bullet) damage to be ineffective, especially Grineer since all their medium / heavies have full body armor scaling vs normal / tri-element. The weapon must either have innate AI / AP damge, or able to acquire enough of it via mods to be effective vs certain enemies, sadly sidearms do not have have the proper mod selection to do it, unlike shotgun for example.

 

2. Sidearm category mods have very weak AP max mod potential, being +30% AP damage from No return. Unlike say shotguns, which have a +150% AP max potential. Hence it is almost impossible to mod a normal (bullet type) damage pistol to be effective against high level armor.

 

The above statement applies generally to sidearm only, not rifle / shotty. It's also a general short answer so you don't have to wade through a wall of text, thus there will be explanations and exceptions missing (eg. Light infested, body parts with no armor scaling, enemies with no armor scaling, racial armor characteristic and behavior ...etc )

 

From a fun perspective:

 

blah blah whatever your style is blah blah,

Weakpoints are immune are they not? (Not that I could reliably hit things with Dual Vipers but w/e)