Mikki79 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) I prefer it the way it is now, hated the old room. Not that I couldn't get through it but it took too long. Anyway who would seriously design a space ship that way, having to jump around and climb walls to get through a room. Jumping and wall running is great for reaching secret rooms etc but not when it's required to get through an area. This isn't some sort of jumping puzzle game. Edited August 6, 2013 by Mikki79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) I would have thought the answer was to improve wall running dependability and control. Apparently not. Also, it had been a standing policy to never make the parkour elements the _only_ way to pass through a room, to best of my knowledge. Several of the new grineer ship rooms did indeed violate that policy so likely needed to be addressed. Overall, I agree with that approach, as it means parkour is about efficiency. Not a point of needless irritation or confusion of movement options just to move on through. Edited August 6, 2013 by Drusus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) I prefer it the way it is now, hated the old room. Not that I couldn't get through it but it took too long. Anyway who would seriously design a space ship that way, having to jump around and climb walls to get through a room. Jumping and wall running is great for reaching secret rooms etc but not when it's required to get through an area. This isn't some sort of jumping puzzle game. You do realize most of the doors were locked on the ship right? Because only grineer can walk through them... did it ever dawn on you the grineer DONT walk through that room, but maybe through the red doors which safely go around them? Edited August 6, 2013 by Arlayn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I prefer it the way it is now, hated the old room. Not that I couldn't get through it but it took too long. Anyway who would seriously design a space ship that way, having to jump around and climb walls to get through a room. Jumping and wall running is great for reaching secret rooms etc but not when it's required to get through an area. This isn't some sort of jumping puzzle game. The void is... so I guess your not a fan of booby traps in the void though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) The void is... so I guess your not a fan of booby traps in the void though... The void is jumping and wall running for secret rooms, not baseline progression. The void is designed exactly as Mikki described was his/her preference, with the parkour elements for added benefits not core progress. I did think your point about the fact we are raiding their ship and using a path they might not was absolutely on target though. We're not exactly using the path marked by the handrails on the tour. ;) Edited August 6, 2013 by Drusus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 The void is jumping and wall running for secret rooms, not baseline progression. The void is designed exactly as Mikki described was his/her preference, with the parkour elements for added benefits not core progress. Except all the good mods... ARE through those hard to get through puzzles so in a way it is progress because of the best mods being in those hard to reach areas... Its like the Market high plat for cosmetics, vs. items that make your character stronger being obtainable in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Except all the good mods... ARE through those hard to get through puzzles so in a way it is progress because of the best mods being in those hard to reach areas... Its like the Market high plat for cosmetics, vs. items that make your character stronger being obtainable in game. Might be splitting hairs on this but the mods are not _required_ to finish the level or progress through it. I agree with you that those areas are highly desired for progression on a granded scale, or at least, option building on a grander scale, but within the mission it's still not a hard limit, which was the point of their parkour policy for level building. I'm with you, I think you need to get up there too, but I do recognize there is a distinction here in terms of the mission completion baseline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Because it was cool watching the hostage get shot to pieces. THAT'S why the room was fixed. You got that room with hostage in tow? Better quit and hope the RNG doesn't screw you a second time. Not because "Parkour is haaard!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Because it was cool watching the hostage get shot to pieces. THAT'S why the room was fixed. You got that room with hostage in tow? Better quit and hope the RNG doesn't screw you a second time. Not because "Parkour is haaard!" weird thing is the hostage could do it, and ive seen it done... which freaked me out... Also on a side note try killing all enemies in path then leave the hostage behind if you need to somehow the hostage always catches up one way or another when it comes to parkour blocking them... Unless its an elevator then it has no idea what to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahruvel Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 It's easy to look at these changes and scoff that they are for casuals. Only, they're the first experience a new player has with the game. The galleon rooms are nice... for us, players who know how the parkour system works. But new players receive absolutely no instruction in the system whatsoever. It is therefore potentially harmful for new player retention for galleons to have extremely complex parkour-heavy rooms; new players who get stuck in these rooms might figure that the game is too confusing without a proper tutorial and just stop playing. STOP. I know what you're thinking. Quitting this early does not make a new player a "stupid casual". And as an extremely experienced player myself, I look down on anyone who would dare talk down to or about these new players. It is shortsighted to a vast degree to flaunt elitism regarding video game skills, especially ones that are not even mentioned in passing during the introduction. Training overhauls are all but guaranteed at this point, but there still needs to be some changes to galleon tilesets, considering they are the new player's first experience. At least in Mercury alone, they should not include extremely complex wallrun-dependent multileveled rooms. I actually enjoy the asteroid mine tileset a lot. With its vent shafts and many jump-reliant sections, it is the perfect environment for acclimating players to parkour in a simple, friendly, and easy to understand way. Except those really tall rooms with oddly placed waypoints. If I were new, those would confuse the hell out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 *snip* Very well said Kahruvel. I completely concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XDeathCoreX Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Why do people use "nerf" to describe everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 It's easy to look at these changes and scoff that they are for casuals. Only, they're the first experience a new player has with the game. The galleon rooms are nice... for us, players who know how the parkour system works. But new players receive absolutely no instruction in the system whatsoever. It is therefore potentially harmful for new player retention for galleons to have extremely complex parkour-heavy rooms; new players who get stuck in these rooms might figure that the game is too confusing without a proper tutorial and just stop playing.STOP. I know what you're thinking. Quitting this early does not make a new player a "stupid casual". And as an extremely experienced player myself, I look down on anyone who would dare talk down to or about these new players. It is shortsighted to a vast degree to flaunt elitism regarding video game skills, especially ones that are not even mentioned in passing during the introduction. Training overhauls are all but guaranteed at this point, but there still needs to be some changes to galleon tilesets, considering they are the new player's first experience. At least in Mercury alone, they should not include extremely complex wallrun-dependent multileveled rooms. I actually enjoy the asteroid mine tileset a lot. With its vent shafts and many jump-reliant sections, it is the perfect environment for acclimating players to parkour in a simple, friendly, and easy to understand way. Except those really tall rooms with oddly placed waypoints. If I were new, those would confuse the hell out of me. You win the thread. That too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidSPD Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Consider for a moment that these are supposed to be in-tact spaceships with crewmen that don't get around with jetpacks & zero grav. Suddenly platforms being connected makes sense. Free-running shouldn't be a requirement to get through ANY room, it should be for savvy tenno that are in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notlamprey Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I'm actually surprised that people are so upset about the tile changes. Honestly, it seems like most of the complaints reflect a general lack of understanding. In case it isn't already obvious, any significant improvements to the parkour/mobility systems will be difficult to design and implement. First off, your brain is not the same brain as the level designer's brain. You will not interpret sensory cues and spatial relationships the way he/she will. Because of this, parkour/mobility controls will sometimes seem counterintuitive to you. Your Warframe will not always use that ledge the way you think it should. That is not a failure in design. That is the reality of brains. I won't go into the issue of how much trouble these rooms cause in Rescue missions. I hate nearly everything about the Rescue mission type. I don't think it's realistic for me to expect DE to make it fun. It's just there, and I avoid playing it whenever possible. Moving on... I think Kahruvel is absolutely right regarding the stereotypical attitude toward casuals. It's not productive, and I refuse to be okay with ignorance and elitism in this community. Those things just don't have a place here. They belong on the pre-school playground. To those complaining loudly about "casual rooms": Have none of you ever just stopped playing a game because the mechanics were obscure or didn't make sense to you? How long did you try to figure it out before walking away? Did the people who enjoyed that game call you a stupid, world-ruining casual? Is it possible that the concepts of nearly all games come more easily to some than to others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Consider for a moment that these are supposed to be in-tact spaceships with crewmen that don't get around with jetpacks & zero grav. Suddenly platforms being connected makes sense. Free-running shouldn't be a requirement to get through ANY room, it should be for savvy tenno that are in a hurry. Consider for a moment all those red doors are the paths the grineer use to walk around those crazy rooms... and that Lotus just enjoys trolling you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaze_35 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 The only reason this was necessary was because in rescue missions, the prisoner couldn't make it to the other side (which caused me to fail some missions about 4 times in a row). I think they should just give prisoners the ability to jump though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasten Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 The only reason this was necessary was because in rescue missions, the prisoner couldn't make it to the other side (which caused me to fail some missions about 4 times in a row). I think they should just give prisoners the ability to jump though. This would be the main driver of most changes. If the AI can't path through it, be it the prisoner AI or enemy AI it has to go. Especially in the liner path. Now if DE could get multi-pathing working in the dungeon generation engine then adding back in the 'harder' rooms as secondary or tertiary paths for player escape could be really fun especially if the stealth system gets a rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiia Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) half of the fun is figuring out how to get everywhere every time a new room is released. it makes to stop and think for a moment, looking where to go. with these changes it's just another room you have to pass through... This would be fine if it were not for rushers who leave others behind, "figuring out" the room and take off leaving others stuck while they consume all the xp and drops until extraction countdown. I am not for simplifying the room (making it work better, yes), but having people stop long enough to help others so they in turn can help others, etc.. Edited August 6, 2013 by Fiia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts