The Amount of Nerfing is Absurd

[zethfoxster]

i laugh when i see people caring about the wall nerf on gara lol....

shes a walking blender....splinter storm is her shining power not the wall.

personally I shatter my walls as soon as i make them to power my infinitely scaling walking death machine. 

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

16 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Ember does not need to be reverted back to Overheat days...and as stated below you would have had to slot the Abilities as Mods.

We don't use this system anymore, so I don't understand why it's being mentioned at all. Also, enemies and damage have changed since the old days, so we don't really have anything to prove that something would be better.

16 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Why does an Augment currently considered a Mod, mean that the Frame is of Terrible Design.

The Augments are a direct upgrade to the base ability, and should not be needed to make a Warframe even somewhat relevant.

16 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

What about when all abilities were Mods that you had to farm? Would only good frame designs at that time had been Frames that did not need Abilities or any Mods slotted to get the job done?

We don't use this system anymore, and again, combat was different back in those days.

16 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Not all mods are beneficial to all frames: Much like Redirection and Fast Recharge being useless on Nidus and Inaros. Does this mean they are of bad frame design because some of the standard mods don't work on them.

That's the complete opposite of the point I made.

 

This isn't an Ember thread, so it'd be nice if it stayed that way. If you'd like to talk Ember, come over to my proposed Ember Revisit thread below.

Spoiler

 

 

[Helaton]

I think it would be great if Gara's #3 and #4 worked in tandem.

For example:

Mass Vitrify used by itself would just turn enemies into glass, not create brittle walls.  Enter the #3 synergy.

Activate #3 and then cast mass vitrify.  The #3 (spinning mind you), gets reinforced by the expanding glass and gets refreshed.  If a panel breaks, it is still spinning, so it distributes damage over the entire shell with time which is a good compromise as it wouldn't be that necessary to increase the base health of the glass panels. During the vitrification process, the reinforced shield is invulnerable until it 'sets'.  This does make the area of defense of the #4 smaller compared to before, but I think its a good compromise.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

1 hour ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

 

The Augments are a direct upgrade to the base ability, and should not be needed to make a Warframe even somewhat relevant.

 

This isn't an Ember thread, so it'd be nice if it stayed that way. If you'd like to talk Ember, come over to my proposed Ember Revisit thread below.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I was replying to your response that Ember was Terrible Design because she required Augment for WoF + Firequake. When the truth is that is not how Ember was designed in the beginning...she got rebalanced/nerfed.

Also not all Augments are a direct upgrade to the normal ability. 

If Gara received a Mass Vitrify Augment that reinstated some Invulnerability to the ability it would be the equivalent of Firequake knockdown adding Blast proc back to World of Fire, but requiring a mod to do so. Meaning the ability would go back to functioning closer to original design and release. (I guess you and I, are really seeing a difference in what is meant by Design and current Frame-kit state, a which is not a representation of the initial Frame ability design)

I really thought DE was going to change Mass Vitrify to a Channeled Ability, where it would drain 15 energy per second it was deployed and an additional 8 energy per second for each 1000 damage absorbed. Would have allowed the ability to be more like Absorb and discourage prolonged enemy-lockout deployment. 

Spoiler contains how I feel some Augments are not upgrades to the original Ability. (Feel free to not read)*

Valkyr's Augments basically contradict how the normal original ability could have been modded.

Except Swing line

WarCry has an enemy Slow Mechanic for CC which basically gets neglected if using Eternal War- in which the point of eternal War is to keep Armor and Melee attack speed buff going. 

Hysterical Assualt needs Range Mods to assist in covering distance, yet normal Hysteria has Range as a dump-stat.

Paralysis loses finisher capability if using Augment. Prolonged Paralysis utilizes more power strength to extend Augment stun duration. Normal Paralysis is usually not built around power strength for the shield to damage capability...because players don't build Valkyr for high Shields. Melee wise normal Paralysis with high range melee weapons can be utilized as non-invisibility Stealth Melee Multiplier since the Finisher-prompt animation allows Stealth Multiplier if single-target finisher is not activated but melee attack strike is landed.

Augment Prolonged Paralysis changes to ground finishers and requires particular elemental status effects combined with knockdown to achieve Stealth Melee Multiplier damage bonus.

Ice Wave not being affected by duration, but Ice Wave Impedance scaling off of duration is another example of how the ability was Augmented to function differently than before. Where a player whom used duration as a dump stat...now would need to reconfigure build to utilize Ice Wave Impedance.

 

Augments like Absorb and Irradiating disarm, count as straight upgrades to the normal ability.

[xPhantomStranga]

I am of the opinion that they need to BUFF instead of NERF. Buff the crap that needs to be buffed.

 

I dug the tweak to discharge, turns out its "too good" now, so its getting axed. Typical.

 

Mag I feel is nearly perfect. Simple tweaks like balancing her abilities so that its a bit more simple to mod for a specific thing would be nice. Mag needs a bit of everything which can be tricky to do right without nerfing certain things.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Excalibur alone had 8 or so nerfs in the 4 years this game is running..just saying..

It's a cycle and if you need someone to blame, just blame those that keep calling for nerfs because they can't get their challenge if their teammate is too strong or stronger than them.

General rule of thumb is all newly launched frames tend to get nerfed a few months after launch in some way or another. Gara's a bit too early but it would have come either way.

Also, if a frame is easily obtainable or if you see its name gets mentioned a lot on the forums, usually a nerf follows a few months or so after too.

Other than that, just have to deal with it and try not to overinvest in any particular frame or weapon.

Best to have tons of options so you can shelf the lousy 1s until they get buffed again or when the good 1s get nerfed.

Edited December 13, 2017 by OoKeNnEtHoO