(PSN)abbacephas Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 8 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said: Ah so you don’t have their inside numbers. Good thanks for clearing that up. I don't need them. The burden of proof isn't on me, it's on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said: The reason why Vault packages are not separate are not addressed. You know that. Yes, They are. Unless the word Exclusive suddenly gained a brand new meaning. 1 hour ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said: Before Vault packages were out, people were calling others entitled for asking if they could have a chance to get the cosmetics of the past PA’s. The definition of entitlement changes a lot within this community it seems. The argument that surfaced when DE agreed to release PA cosmetics in Vault offerings dealt specifically with The aspect of them being PA Exclusives. ...Which is why there's a vault and it's called Prime. The only aspect of entitlement there is in the thinking that the original purchasers should be entitled to keep the items exclusive to that one purchase window. 1 hour ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said: This is not related to what’s being talked about here at all. We’re not asking for the cosmtics to be sold in independant bundles not linked with their original PA packs. My wuestion is why they simply don’t just bring the original PA deal back, only under the Prime Vault name? Same price. Same two packs. Why can’t that be done? Yes, Completely related... Prime Access offerings are timed. Once that Prime Access offering expires, it does not (and never has returned). Players are obliged to wait for the Prime Access vault offering instead which is then offered at a discount for the whole thing. That offering has no stages or separate packs to purchase and is purchased at a discount. Your idea is even more problematic because players that purchased at full price could (and would be withing their rights to) assert that all packs then be offered at full price. 1 hour ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said: Um, I’m not asking for them to be non-exclusive. Are you sure you haven’t confused me with someone else. Has the definition of the word Exclusive escaped you? The Prime Access offerings are time bound... The Prime Accessories packs are exclusive to them. Piece those two facts together and you can see the gaping hole in your argument. Timebound and Exclusive to that specific offering. So unless you happen to have a Tardis in your garage... You don't have any right to ask for what you are asking for. 1 hour ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said: Yes. So why can’t they just being back the original PA packs? Loki Prime with his accessories etc etc. See above or my previous post... Which you cited, but I am not entirely sure you read for understanding. 1 hour ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said: Because the packs are not separate like how they were when PA packs were first introduced. So you have to purchase everything in order to get that one thing you missed out on. Like many people have said; this a practice solely catered on new players only. It alienates the older community who already have the gear, but not the cosmetics. See above or look up the definition of the word Exclusive. The gear isn't (and has never been) exclusive to the Prime Access...The accessories packs are (and always have been). ...Also something noted in the FAQ. FWIW... I'm a member of the older community and I don't feel alienated. I even harbored the same question you did at one point until I actually read the FAQ. 1 hour ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said: And again, I am not asking for special treatment. I’m asking for the opposite; stop focusing on one group and focus on all. Why is that so difficult for people to see? Because you actually are asking for special treatment... DE's obligations extend to maintaining the accessories Exclusivity (which they have done) to Prime Access and Vault. Asking that something be sold in a manner that meets your specific convenience although you missed the period in which it was specifically offered is asking for a consideration. Arguing the merits for that consideration by ascribing fault to the selling party directly asserts entitlement. What?... Did you think you should get access to previous Prime Accessories for 10 or 15 bucks instead when other paid $50? The day they did that would be the dead last time they managed to sell a Prime Accessories pack for $50...And they are smart enough to know it. So DE should undercut their own future revenue to make you feel warm and fuzzy? ...Not likely. Edited February 8, 2018 by Padre_Akais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said: I don't need them. The burden of proof isn't on me, it's on you. It's on DE. Pfff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abbacephas Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, Volinus7 said: It's on DE. Pfff... It's not on DE either. They've shown that they don't need to separate cosmetics to sustain their revenues and maintain a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, (PS4)abbacephas said: It's not on DE either. They've shown that they don't need to separate cosmetics to sustain their revenues and maintain a profit. They haven't shown that the separation won't decrease their revenue. No experiment no result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abbacephas Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Volinus7 said: They haven't shown that the separation won't decrease their revenue. No experiment no result. They don't need to. Why fix what isn't broken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, (PS4)abbacephas said: They don't need to. Why fix what isn't broken? Maybe it's broken? That's the point of the experiment, to compare and contrast with the new strategy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abbacephas Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, Volinus7 said: Maybe it's broken? That's the point of the experiment, to compare and contrast with the new strategy? From a business perspective, why? If X has shown to provide you with profits and Y may provide a bit more (or may result in loss), there is no reason to try Y. Businesses will only change their model when they see that the change will guarantee an increase in profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, (PS4)abbacephas said: From a business perspective, why? If X has shown to provide you with profits and Y may provide a bit more (or may result in loss), there is no reason to try Y. Businesses will only change their model when they see that the change will guarantee an increase in profits. Because of the burden of proof you said? "guarantee an increase in profits", until it is proven. argumentum ad ignorantiam ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ To make it easier to validate, apply these assumptions. DE have zero obligation to proof anything. Warframe players are compulsive and highly addicted to it so analytics and predictions are pretty accurate(they will still buy stuffs despite the complaints). Hence DE have solid reasons to not change anything. Edited February 8, 2018 by Volinus7 Also, It's not an anti consumer practice if consumers don't suspect it. Lel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abbacephas Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Volinus7 said: Because of the burden of proof you said? "guarantee an increase in profits", until it is proven. I don't think you quite understand what I'm saying. DE is currently selling cosmetics with frames and weapons (and plat and other stuff) as a bundle as part of the Prime Vault (we'll call that X). That generates a certain amount of revenue/profit for them. Someone comes along and makes the claim that "Hey, breaking up the bundle and selling cosmetics alone will be better." (we'll call that Y). By better, I would assume that they mean DE would increase its revenue/profit and not "better for me, because that's what I want, because 'muh moniez'." The burden of proof is on that someone to prove that Y will, in fact, increase DE's revenue/profit. DE does not need to do any sort of experimentation as they are clearly quite satisfied with doing X. X provides enough revenue/profit that they don't need to do Y. Or, maybe they have looked into Y and found that it would not be as profitable. Regardless, DE doesn't need to change if they don't want to, and they don't need to provide an account to us players of their finances. It's not our business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travka- Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 back when targis armor comeback with Mag , yeah i already have mag but i want armor so i buy it what the problem ? (i have more mag :V) they won't release accessories separately i mean " WON'T " so what you gonna do ? if you want Misa etc. go on take it (if you not broke at that moment xD ) spent money just one time to get a thing you like i think that not a big deal Every time an Unvaulting happens,there alway topic like this :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky5hift Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 >DE makes consistent updates and improves game. OP: WOW THANKS FOR LISTENING TO THE COMMUNITY DE! >DE doesn't make any statement regarding unvaulting Prime Accessory packs. OP: WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO THE COMMUNITY DE?!?!?1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainHalide Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 hour ago, (PS4)abbacephas said: They don't need to. Why fix what isn't broken? If it isn't broken, what's this conversation doing here? People clearly want a chance to get at the cosmetics without throwing cash at stuff they already have. Shy's mentioned it. Jim Sterling's gone off about it. Most of the people I play with would love a chance to buy the accessories and extras separate from the frames and weapons they already have. The naysaying in this thread is pointless and daft. People clearly want more options, otherwise none of these threads would crop up, major video commentators wouldn't be saying anything, and nobody'd be talking about it. QED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abbacephas Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, megalomaniacalHalide said: If it isn't broken, what's this conversation doing here? Broken for whom, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synicism Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I think that requiring us to buy a prime vault pack to buy the accessories is kind of silly, especially when the prime access has an accessories pack that I gladly paid for. But requiring that i pay for a pack that has a prime in it that i own is kind of predatory imo(whether it be accidental or purposeful). Please add an accessories pack do that people don't have to buy things they don't need and we can still give you our money for what we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky5hift Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, megalomaniacalHalide said: If it isn't broken, what's this conversation doing here? People clearly want a chance to get at the cosmetics without throwing cash at stuff they already have. Shy's mentioned it. Jim Sterling's gone off about it. Most of the people I play with would love a chance to buy the accessories and extras separate from the frames and weapons they already have. The naysaying in this thread is pointless and daft. People clearly want more options, otherwise none of these threads would crop up, major video commentators wouldn't be saying anything, and nobody'd be talking about it. QED. From a business standpoint, I'm pretty sure bundling cosmetics together for a bigger price is more profitable in the long run than splitting it apart. Its impossible to do everything the players want. Compromises have to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NullSaint Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I think it would be nice (if only to cut down on the whining in the forums) if they offered this, but I have to note that you aren't required to pay for anything. This game is so far from "predatory" that it is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2old4gamez Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, Synicism said: Please add an accessories pack so that people don't have to buy things they don't need and we can still give you our money for what we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainHalide Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said: From a business standpoint, I'm pretty sure bundling cosmetics together for a bigger price is more profitable in the long run than splitting it apart. Its impossible to do everything the players want. Compromises have to be made. Is it really? I'm not the only person who won't spend cash on things I already own just to get a little bit of what I don't own. I don't think anyone in my clan has done this, specifically because it feels like an excessive moneysink to purchase a fairly large amount of content we already have. Until you can get a poll with sufficient data and lack of bias about it, your argument is utterly unverifiable. Also, how is this impossible to do this? DE literally did this thing with the initial prime accesses in question. It'd take minutes of effort from a single individual to copy-paste the old promo material and purchase options. Edited February 8, 2018 by megalomaniacalHalide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky5hift Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, megalomaniacalHalide said: Is it really? I'm not the only person who won't spend cash on things I already own just to get a little bit of what I don't own. I don't think anyone in my clan has done this, specifically because it feels like an excessive moneysink to purchase a fairly large amount of content we already have. Until you can get a poll with sufficient data and lack of bias about it, your argument is utterly unverifiable. Also, how is this impossible to do this? DE literally did this thing with the initial prime accesses in question. It'd take literal minutes of effort from a single individual to copy-paste the old promo material and purchase options. I can't speak for sure but given that DE hasn't split the packs apart in the past, the current system must be pretty lucrative for them. I say this time and time again, DE is a company running a business. Profit is the true endgame. Its not a question of how easy it is to implement, its a question of how this will affect monetization as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)zedlanik Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 On 07/02/2018 at 3:55 PM, DelBoyJamie said: WE HAVE ALL BEEN SAYING THIS FOR AGES NOW AND HOPEFULLY WITH SUCH A BIG VOICE AS JIM STERLING DE WILL LISTEN We love you DE but you're not listening to the players I'm sure DE have seen this video just by Jim sterling, his words Eco how we all feel. Many many people already own these frame or even all, and only want the accessories, we need choice. How the F*** can you say bungie ? DE is way more different and let me remind you warframe is free game free to play let's you to spend if you like but you don't have to Bungie destiny 1 broken meta no story no real concept dlc that you had to pay for which only one DLC was worth it Destiny 2 broken and nothing in game no real end game no real challenge So pls relax DE is not bungie Warframe is better because you don't have to spend any penny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)cdzbrbr Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 That would be a slap in the face of the people who buy it upfront at full price. You're already getting a 33% discount over its original price which i can kinda get along with. Banalize the prime accessories by putting them on a unvaulted prime accessories pack with an even bigger discount and I swear me and a lot of other people will drop their support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainHalide Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Tricky5hift said: I can't speak for sure but given that DE hasn't split the packs apart in the past, the current system must be pretty lucrative for them. I say this time and time again, DE is a company running a business. Profit is the true endgame. Its not a question of how easy it is to implement, its a question of how this will affect monetization as a whole. You can't speak with any certainty whatsoever, because your only data point is 'they still do things this way'. There is absolutely no concrete data to suggest that they wouldn't make more profit if they gave players the purchasing options that are being asked for. Your self-decided conclusions have proven absolutely nothing. I am asking for other options. My clanmates are wishing for other options. Major community members are cynically commenting about the lack of other options. This thread is FULL OF PEOPLE who want other options. There clearly exists a demand that is not being met with supply, and that is very demonstrably profitability that is not being capitalized upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abbacephas Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, megalomaniacalHalide said: Until you can get a poll with sufficient data and lack of bias about it, your argument is utterly unverifiable. Thing is, the "naysayers" as you call them don''t need to provide the data. The burden of proof is on you to show that DE would benefit by breaking the the cosmetics apart and selling them separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, megalomaniacalHalide said: If it isn't broken, what's this conversation doing here? Mountains = Mole Hills 6 minutes ago, megalomaniacalHalide said: People clearly want a chance to get at the cosmetics without throwing cash at stuff they already have. Shy's mentioned it. Jim Sterling's gone off about it. Most of the people I play with would love a chance to buy the accessories and extras separate from the frames and weapons they already have. Shy and Jim Sterling aren't experts. Their opinions are no more, or less, relevant than any other player's The primary difference between them and other players is the fact that they have a social media platform. That doesn't make them right and doesn't lend their opinions any more credence than that of the average player. If DE separates the Accessories packs from the Vault bundle .. It had better cost $50. 16 minutes ago, megalomaniacalHalide said: The naysaying in this thread is pointless and daft. People clearly want more options, otherwise none of these threads would crop up, major video commentators wouldn't be saying anything, and nobody'd be talking about it. QED. Real Talk? What's daft is asserting an entitlement to options that you don't actually have. You folks seriously need to stop and actually read the FAQ. The Accessories are the only actual thing you are buying that is actually exclusive to Prime Access or Prime Vaults. Even if it got split off from the Frames and etc, the price wouldn't actually change. Why? Because it's the only part of Prime Access you can't earn in game. You folks and "your rights"...Do you actually think DE isn't above pulling Accessories from Prime Vault offerings to stop the complaints? You ever heard of Arcane Helmets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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