Why Chroma will never be tanky again: (UPDATED TO CONTAIN THE BEST BALANCING IDEAS IN THE FIRST POST)

[Walkampf]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb Autongnosis:

But that's strictly not true. 

@(PS4)Crixus044showed you most armour abilities actually either buff the total

Oh, is that so?

Inaros(620) = Base Armor(200) + Steelfiber(220) + Scarab Armor(200)

Vauban(142,5)=  Base Armor(50) + Steelfiber(55) + Passive(3x12,5)

Valkyr(1560) =Base Armor(600) + Steelfiber(660) + Warcry (300)

Valkyr from Wikia calculation(1650) = Base Armor(600) + Steelfiber(660) + Warcry (300*1.3)

So, which ability is it, which multiplies the total armor?

As far as i can see, those all buff the base armor and then add steelfiber on top.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Walkampf:

Oh, is that so?

Inaros(620) = Base Armor(200) + Steelfiber(220) + Scarab Armor(200)

Vauban(142,5)=  Base Armor(50) + Steelfiber(55) + Passive(3x12,5)

Valkyr(1560) =Base Armor(600) + Steelfiber(660) + Warcry (300)

Valkyr from Wikia calculation(1650) = Base Armor(600) + Steelfiber(660) + Warcry (300*1.3)

So, which ability is it, which multiplies the total armor?

As far as i can see, those all buff the base armor and then add steelfiber on top.

anyway . why is it a problem if chroma buffs the total? makes him unique . because now he isnt

[Walkampf]

vor 1 Minute schrieb DeadlyCreation:

anyway . why is it a problem if chroma buffs the total? makes him unique . because now he isnt

That's the underlying idea, he was a lot stronger than intended. This was fixed.

Even if it made him unique, the formula was containing an error.

DE merely fixed an unintended mathematical error.

[DeadlyCreation]

Gerade eben schrieb Walkampf:

That's the underlying idea, he was a lot stronger than intended. This was fixed.

Even if it made him unique, the formula was containing an error.

DE merely fixed an unintended mathematical error.

still he is just too weak now. the new formula doesnt work for a tank. as allready said. he as lower eHP than oberon,,, someone who is not even a tank

[Autongnosis]

il y a 12 minutes, Walkampf a dit :

Snip

Off the top of my head (you'd have to wait for Crixus for a more complete list). 

Frost Globe - scales off total armour

Rhino Iron Skin - scales off total armour 

Gara's Wall - scales off total armour

Nezha's Warding Halo - scale off total armour

Also, every other DR ability multiplies hp after total armour. 

[Walkampf]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Autongnosis:

Off the top of my head (you'd have to wait for Crixus for a more complete list). 

Frost Globe - scales off total armour

Rhino Iron Skin - scales off total armour 

Gara's Wall - scales off total armour

Nezha's Warding Halo - scale off total armour

Also, every other DR ability multiplies hp after total armour. 

All those abilities are not increasing armor...

You are comparing apples to bananas.

Those abilities to literally something else, that is why they use different formulas.

Vex Armor is an Armor multiplier, not a shieling ability.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Walkampf

[CoreXCZ]

Guys, sorry to say it but you really need to realize one thing. Chroma ended as it is now because people made him mandatory for Eidolon hunts. If he was so strong and it was obvious DE will nerf/fix him and no one wanted it, why people pushed Chroma into light to begin with?

It's always like this, portion of community is happy, portion not and rest just sits, waves with hand over it and goes on. Instead of trying to be creative with Chroma, people got constant need to play him as everyone did, as tanky DPS. Have everyone forgot why we have so many frames, so many mods, so many options to customize? Level of adjustment you can do to each frame (fashion, mods, etc.) is huge and even so, it always ends with community using one great build and with no desire to experiment and search for new possibilities.

Yes, everyone have right to play Chroma in own way, even if it's nothing more than copying others and being a monkey. But Chroma was always played the same way, even in situation where it's tankiness and DPS wasn't needed and other abilities could do more work.

Edited February 12, 2018 by CoreXCZ

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Walkampf:

All those abilities are not increasing armor...

You are comparing apples to bananas.

Those abilities to literally something else, that is why they use different formulas.

Vex Armor is an Armor multiplier, not a shieling ability.

but chromas armor is literally his shield....

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb DeadlyCreation:

but chromas armor is literally his shield....

You literally don't know the meaning of the word literally.

Armor is literally not a shield.

Yes, both are tool to increase survivability, however they work in radically different ways.

You are basically claiming that a plane is the same as a bicycle, because both are machines to move a person from A to B.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Walkampf

[DeadlyCreation]

Gerade eben schrieb CoreXCZ:

Guys, sorry to say it but you really need to realize one thing. Choma ended as it is now because people made him mandatory for Eidolon hunts. If he was so wrong and it was obvious DE will nerf/fix him and no one wanted it, why people pushed Chroma into light to begin with?

It's always like this, portion of community is happy, portion not and rest just sits, waves with hand over it and goes on. Instead of trying to be creative with Chrome, people got constant need to play him as everyone did, as tanky DPS. Have everyone forgot why we have so many frames, so many mods, so many options to customize? Level of adjustment you can do to each frame (fashion, mods, etc.) is huge and even so, it always ends with community using one great build and with no desire to experiment and search for new possibilities.

Yes, everyone have right to play Choma in own way, even if it's nothing more than copying others and being a monkey. But Chroma was always played the same way, even in situation where it's tankiness and DPS wasn't needed and other abilities could do more work.

no reason to make a good frame the worst. if the wanted to nerf him to make the eidolon fights more challenging the could have easily nerfed the dmg alone. i mean during eidolon fight you dont go down anyway since you have a trin at your site.

also now, since the rework, he has nothing to go for him. rhino is a better tank and his dmg buff applies on abilities aswell as teammates can move freely. they just nerfed him way to hard. this is what this threat is about. we dont want him to be as OP as before. we are collecting ideas to make him viable again.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Walkampf:

You literally don't know the meaning of the word literally.

Armor is literally not a shield.

Yes, both are tool to increase survivability, however they work in radically different ways.

You are basically claiming that a plane is the same as a bicycle, because both are machines to move a person from A to B.

you dont get the point. i am allright with the formula changes. but the new one is just reducing chromas value to nothing. in order to fix that they could increase chromas base armor to work again. i dont bother how the armor is applied as long as he doesnt stay this bs. atm there is no reason for chroma to exist. he has nothing that makes him unique.

[CoreXCZ]

il y a 5 minutes, DeadlyCreation a dit :

no reason to make a good frame the worst. if the wanted to nerf him to make the eidolon fights more challenging the could have easily nerfed the dmg alone. i mean during eidolon fight you dont go down anyway since you have a trin at your site.

also now, since the rework, he has nothing to go for him. rhino is a better tank and his dmg buff applies on abilities aswell as teammates can move freely. they just nerfed him way to hard. this is what this threat is about. we dont want him to be as OP as before. we are collecting ideas to make him viable again.

It's always 'worst frame' we hear after something is changed. Same went on with Mag in past, some say even today she's 'worthless' and some say she's godlike. No really, give it time and play, look for options. Chroma is not the worst frame in game just because it's toys were taken and replaced with new ones. 

Edited February 12, 2018 by CoreXCZ

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb CoreXCZ:

It's always 'worst frame' we hear after something is changed. Same went on with Mag in past, some say even today she's 'worthless' and some say she's godlike. No really, give it time and play, look for options. Choma is not the worst frame in game just because it's toys were taken and replaced with new ones. 

yeah mag got a change in abilities. not a straight reduction. if chromas abilities were changed we could experiment with new builds. but right now: he has the same abilities just worse.

[CoreXCZ]

à l’instant, DeadlyCreation a dit :

yeah mag got a change in abilities. not a straight reduction. if chromas abilities were changed we could experiment with new builds. but right now: he has the same abilities just worse.

Four abilities, doing something, that gives a lot of possibilities to begin with. Chroma is a monster on low level interceptions since you can use Effigy and one of four points you have to defend is safe. No really, it's just about how you use it and how you mod it. It's not have been long since these changes were placed.

[Walkampf]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb DeadlyCreation:

you dont get the point. i am allright with the formula changes. but the new one is just reducing chromas value to nothing. in order to fix that they could increase chromas base armor to work again. i dont bother how the armor is applied as long as he doesnt stay this bs. atm there is no reason for chroma to exist. he has nothing that makes him unique.

No, you don't understand.

He was stronger than intended. DE fixed that.

If you were only able to play the game, because he was stronger than intended then the problem isn't Chroma, it's you.

[DeadlyCreation]

Gerade eben schrieb CoreXCZ:

Four abilities, doing something, that gives a lot of possibilities to begin with. Chroma is a monster on low level interceptions since you can use Effigy and one of four points you have to defend is safe. No really, it's just about how you use it and how you mod it. It's not have been long since these changes were placed.

are your really trying to make somethign good out of its effigy? its the worst ultimate in game. it literally can kill level 20 enemies at best. and for that you can just take equinox and kill everythign with his initial slash procs.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Walkampf:

No, you don't understand.

He was stronger than intended. DE fixed that.

If you were only able to play the game, because he was stronger than intended then the problem isn't Chroma, it's you.

as i said allready. i am fine with the fix. but now - how chroma is intended to be. he is just bad. he has nothing going for him. DE either need to buff hsi vex armor again or make some awesome changes to his 1 and 4.

[Autongnosis]

il y a 37 minutes, Walkampf a dit :

No, you don't understand.

He was stronger than intended. DE fixed that.

If you were only able to play the game, because he was stronger than intended then the problem isn't Chroma, it's you.

Ok so next nerf every frame over 20k ehp. So no assimilate nyx, no shield of shadows nekros, no rhino, no nezha, no wukong, no valkyr, no frost, no trinity, no nidus, no inaros, no mesa, no mirage, no gara, no nova, no atlas, no oberon... 

And also nerfe every bonus that's not additive to base damage, so no nova, no banshee, no rhino, no equinox, no mirage, no nidus, no blind on any ability...

You realise that's ludicrous do you?

Again, i just listed off the top of my head a number of skills that factor total armour in their math. 

And you ignore the fact that every other tank either has one or more ways to regen EHP consistently, status immunity, CC or more than one of the above. 

Chroma had EHP. Full stop. On top of that, he had the worst kind of EHP generating mechanic in the game, armour. 

This will be my last answer to you too. You've spent this whole thread insulting everyone who didn't agree with you and selectively ignoring everything that didn't make you right. I've got enough of your bullS#&$ and ad hominem. 

[DeadlyCreation]

holy shiat. dude. you allready said it. yes they reduced vex armor because - as you are saying- they dont want this frame to evolve around one ability. the problem with the fix is: he has no other ability thats even remotely good. they should have given us somethign to work with. atm chroma has NO good ability.

and thanks for insulting again. the beginning of your answer was fine but instead of staying factual you just start insulting other people once again.

[Walkampf]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Autongnosis:

Ok so next nerf every frame over 20k ehp. So no assimilate nyx, no shield of shadows nekros, no rhino, no nezha, no wukong, no valkyr, no frost, no trinity, no nidus, no inaros, no mesa, no mirage, no gara, no nova, no atlas, no oberon... 

And also nerfe every bonus that's not additive to base damage, so no nova, no banshee, no rhino, no equinox, no mirage, no nidus, no blind on any ability...

You realise that's ludicrous do you?

Good god... could you try to not put words in my mouth?

I never said anywhere that DE should nerf anything.

All i'm saying is, DE fixed a mathematical error. If any of the other Frames you mentioned had a simliar issue, this should be fixed as well in order to give every player a fair playingfield.

Chroma was suffering from a bug that coincidently made him a lot stronger. People then jumped on him and suddenly felt that they can play videogames too.

What if the bug had actually reduced Chromas armor?

Whould there still be people who whould argue to keep this anomaly, because it makes Chroma special and unique?

HA!!!

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Walkampf:

Good god... could you try to not put words in my mouth?

I never said anywhere that DE should nerf anything.

All i'm saying is, DE fixed a mathematical error. If any of the other Frames you mentioned had a simliar issue, this should be fixed as well in order to give every player a fair playingfield.

Chroma was suffering from a bug that coincidently made him a lot stronger. People then jumped on him and suddenly felt that they can play videogames too.

What if the bug had actually reduced Chromas armor?

Whould there still be people who whould argue to keep this anomaly, because it makes Chroma special and unique?

HA!!!

first the dmg bugg made him way too strong yes. the armor portion was fine. he wasnt overpowered in that aspect.if DE wants to make chroma work as intended, thats fine, but if this is how is is supposed to be he is trash and needs a rework more than any other frame. that is all i want to explain. it doesnt matter if he was bugged or not - the way he is now is not acceptable. thats all speakign objectively. he has no good ability.

spectral scream: trash;

elemtal ward: ice was only good because of vex armor. since vex armor is fixed its bad;

vex armor: the worst buffing ability in the game;

effigy: the worst ultimate in the game.

[Walkampf]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb DeadlyCreation:

first the dmg bugg made him way too strong yes. the armor portion was fine. he wasnt overpowered in that aspect.if DE wants to make chroma work as intended, thats fine, but if this is how is is supposed to be he is trash and needs a rework more than any other frame. that is all i want to explain. it doesnt matter if he was bugged or not - the way he is now is not acceptable. thats all speakign objectively.

You are not speaking objectivly.

Objectivly he is now working as intended.

Subjectivly you are not capable of handling Chroma, when he has to follow the same rules that other players have to follow.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Walkampf

[DeadlyCreation]

Gerade eben schrieb Walkampf:

You are not speaking objectivly.

Objectivly he is now working as intended.

Subjectivly you are not capable of handling Chroma, when he as to follow the same rules that other players have to follow.

dude i am saying that he is now working as intended. i am saying objectively that his abilities are underperforming in comperison with any other frame. thats not subjective. thats objectivly looking at the numbers. none of his abilities are good compared to other frames. they are all worse

[Walkampf]

Gerade eben schrieb DeadlyCreation:

i am saying objectively that his abilities are underperforming in comperison with any other frame

You are, again, flat out wrong.

Vex armor is now behaving exacly like other abilities. It was overperforming before the patch.

[VoxGray]

7 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

-snip-

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt when I was reading the first few pages of this thread, but you've spent this entire thread digging yourself into the same hole. It's clear you just plain don't understand the issue at hand, and should probably stop before you embarrass yourself further.

I've been a Chroma main nearly since I started playing this game, long before I had the mods to make Chroma the monster he was capable of becoming, and even then one thing was clear: Chroma is the living weapon. He's the Frame you use when you want to plow into an enemy horde and just rip them to shreds with your weapons in hand, without all the bells and whistles other Frames might come with. His potential for scaling cemented that identity, allowing him to take on threats most Frames would shudder at. He was only good at one thing, but he was undeniably the best at it.

Now, we stand at a point where a caster can attain as much EHP as Chroma, and his damage buff can be outdone by a bard. This isn't an issue of difficulty or bugs or anything of that nature. It's about Chroma being stripped of his identity, and trying to figure out how to bring that back without breaking the game like before.