DE, Ember needs you to tear that band-aid off

[TyrianMollusk]

tl;dr World on Fire is holding back all of Ember's kit, and it's not adding anything good.

I've been playing Ember lately now that the prime is out again (I'd leveled her, but shelved her since the prime was on the horizon), and I was rather enjoying using her abilities, except World on Fire of course, since I like to play my frame, not have the game auto for me, but it's hard to ignore how poor the damage is (my fire Staticor is a significantly better, more satisfying, and more fun Fireball than the basic ability of the game's own fire mage--something is just wrong there) and how many odd limitations there are, like range not applying to things that obviously would have range...

The problem, of course, is World on Fire itself.  Because you can just run it in the background, everything Ember has gets balanced on top of it and anything that affects it greatly (like, say range) can't pay off "too much" elsewhere.  WoF poisons Ember's balancing.  On top of that, with this new WoF, everything is just as bad but WoF doesn't even make up the difference.  It's just getting worse.

World on Fire needs to go.  It was never good design to just constantly, automatically damage everything in the area, and letting players get invested in its broken play style has only made the whole thing worse.  Yes, there will be tears.  Yes, there will be some burning effigies of DE.  Yes, you'll have to actually come up with a decent ability to replace it and put real damage numbers on 1-3.  Even so, Ember and the game will be better for it, and the worst thing you can do here is keep dragging it out talking about how you want players to engage and play but actually keeping right on enabling them and just adding hassles without fixing the problem.  You're just changing an idler into a clicker.  It's still wrong.  It's still not Warframe.

Stop making people hate you for ruining World on Fire.  Make them love you for making Ember fun and great again in a way that actually works with the game you tell us you want.  Also, seriously, do something with fire.  We shouldn't have to pretend Ember is the master of fire among space wizards.

[TeCoolTenno]

15 minutes ago, TyrianMollusk said:

We shouldn't have to pretend Ember is the master of fire among space wizards.

nah that goes to nezha

[Elyann]

9 minutes ago, TyrianMollusk said:

tl;dr World on Fire is holding back all of Ember's kit, and it's not adding anything good.

I've been playing Ember lately now that the prime is out again (I'd leveled her, but shelved her since the prime was on the horizon), and I was rather enjoying using her abilities, except World on Fire of course, since I like to play my frame, not have the game auto for me, but it's hard to ignore how poor the damage is (my fire Staticor is a significantly better, more satisfying, and more fun Fireball than the basic ability of the game's own fire mage--something is just wrong there) and how many odd limitations there are, like range not applying to things that obviously would have range...

The problem, of course, is World on Fire itself.  Because you can just run it in the background, everything Ember has gets balanced on top of it and anything that affects it greatly (like, say range) can't pay off "too much" elsewhere.  WoF poisons Ember's balancing.  On top of that, with this new WoF, everything is just as bad but WoF doesn't even make up the difference.  It's just getting worse.

World on Fire needs to go.  It was never good design to just constantly, automatically damage everything in the area, and letting players get invested in its broken play style has only made the whole thing worse.  Yes, there will be tears.  Yes, there will be some burning effigies of DE.  Yes, you'll have to actually come up with a decent ability to replace it and put real damage numbers on 1-3.  Even so, Ember and the game will be better for it, and the worst thing you can do here is keep dragging it out talking about how you want players to engage and play but actually keeping right on enabling them and just adding hassles without fixing the problem.  You're just changing an idler into a clicker.  It's still wrong.  It's still not Warframe.

Stop making people hate you for ruining World on Fire.  Make them love you for making Ember fun and great again in a way that actually works with the game you tell us you want.  Also, seriously, do something with fire.  We shouldn't have to pretend Ember is the master of fire among space wizards.

Allow me to disagree.

I have been playing ember and all the other frames for almost 3-4 years by now.

The main issue with ember is and has always been how her powers scale , thing which allows her to deal huge amounts of damage in the early game and almost nothing against level 100+ enemies.
World on Fire's changes are actually quite positive even though it's not what Ember truly needed as they give her more power against stronger enemies , permitting her to be more than just a cc frame in hard content but they do not completely solve the problem ( trust me, I just tested world on fire against level 90 enemies...and it wasn't just bombards and gunners but squishies too...it didn't feel really useful ).
Anyhow....world on fire isn't meant to be a "press and afk" ability but its purpouse is to be "passive damage" you can add on top of your other abilities ( and weapons ) damage in order to keep being that high dps and yet squishy frame you are meant to be ( that said, if the player prefers to use it to afk, then it's a player related problem and not an ember related one, same as for banshee which we are now forced to use with sonar and silence only, thanks DE ! ) or you could simply use it with its related augment to have a nice knockdown cc to use against high level enemies, the choice is yours.

Is Ember's kit overshadowed by world on fire ? 
Opinions here could differ.
Is Excalibur's overshadowed by exalted blade ? Nova's by molecular prime ? Trinity's by blessing ? 
My answer is....I don't think so.
Ember's fireball is normal for a "1" ability , her 2 is an aoe stun which also increases fire damage...it looks good enough to use it , her 3 is a powerful aoe knock down which also creates a DoT circle and which allows anyone who enters the ring to proc fire damage with a 100% chance....hell, fire damage may not be the best source of damage but it's good...and it's still free damage you are offering to the rest of your party.
You don't like them as they are ? There's augments for them.

- Fireball frenzy adds fire damage to your allies attacks for 40 seconds
- Flash accelerant gives your party +50% casting speed and fire damage 
- Fire fright makes all the enemies hit by your 3 panic ( which basically transforms it into Nekros' Terrify , some pretty useful cc )
- Firequake makes World on fire knock enemies down ( ofc , you'll have less range or power on it...but its strenght doesn't really matter in endgame so far ) 

Now, allow me to express my totally biased personal judgement....but....who are you to tell me what's "not warframe" or what's "fun and great" ? 
Warframe is a game that's not only enjoyed by tryhards but by casuals as well....and that cause of these mechanics ( that have been around since ages ) actually brought in more casual players than hardcore ones.
I'd also like to point out that fun is relative and where many people have fun in overcoming new challenges there are many others who simply just like to chill and enjoy the pleasure that a game is after a day at school or work.
You can not force everyone to play by your rules simply just cause you'd like the game more ; the developers have to make sure that the changes they bring to the game will not hurt too much nor one side nor the other.
I actually enjoy ember as she is...as I enjoyed banshee as she was before her rework , I think they are fun.
I never go afk in a mission, that's a thing to be said...but aside from afk people...I don't think it's fair to punish someone simply cause they like to take the game easy every once in a while.










 

[GenericPotato]

I would say, as a person playing even when the UI was still crap, i would not mind a complete WOF change if it means for better survivability and endgame CC. As it is now, Ember has dropped from a endgame frame to mastery fodder. (In the context of T4 Survivals)