More 8 player alternative missions please

[Lemon]

WIth the removal of raids i feel like this is relevant now more than ever, warframe is an mmo with small clans being around 10 players yet 8 player missions have only been delegated to 1-2 "raids" which are about to be removed. I understand that not everyone might be able to host an 8 player session, but those of us who can and have bigger groups should be able to opt in for an 8 player version of common mission types.

Missions that could work with 8 man squads; Defection, Survival, Defense(multiple simultaneous defense pods), Interception(with more points and bigger maps), Excavation(Higher excavator spawn rate, twice the requirement for rewards)

These are just some half-baked ideas, they would need to be tweaked to fit DE's design. I know that 8 man missions will return further down the line but i really wish we could just have 8 man alternatives to common missions, for when you want to play with more than just 4 people. And also having a little variety instead of just a single mission for 8 players to do would be the best.

[polarity]

The host computer has to send each client updates about the location and actions of every other player, and all of the NPCs.  If you add more players, you drastically increase the amount of data that the host has to send out.  Just adding 4 more players to existing missions would increase the number of hosts whose computers can't handle that kind of output, nevermind adding more spawns to keep up with the higher kill-rate of a larger group.  So long as the game is hosted on the players' computers rather than dedicated servers, then groups of 4 are the practical limit, unless enemy spawns are significantly reduced to compensate.

[Koldraxon-732]

@polarity, if Trials could do it, then so can normal missions (or mixed missions); perhaps DE should look into multi-host net-coding.

Here's an idea:
-Specific, 8-player bounties in the Plains (Excavation, Defense, Extermination).
-Unique 8-player missions, such as hybrid gametypes (Excavation/Interception or Excavation/Defense, Survival/Defense, or even Exterminate/Escort to name a few, where both objectives are running simultaneously and affect eachother*).
-Special 8-player bossfights, like two Razorbacks? Six Raptors? Eight Ambulas 2.0s?

*Hybrid gametype details:
-All tiles used will be twice as big as they would also contain the other objective, where required.

Spoiler

Excav-ception: Maintain control of the local defense network to prevent AA guns from taking down excavators and provide detailed scanning data for excavator deployment, while also protecting the excavators themselves.
-For every 10% intercepted, increased chance to spawn battery carriers and an increased chance for a digsite to be marked. Failed interceptions cause area lockdown, which must be uplifted before the scanner can proceed.
-Tilesets: Excavation areas and Interception room, connected at the spawn point.

Excav-fence: Defend a prototype planetside scanner drone as it is essential to locating digsites.
-If the drone is destroyed, chances of finding more digsites drop significantly until the current digsites are harvested. A means of calling another drone at the cost of mission-obtained resources and currency would be available. 
-Tilesets: Excavation areas and another extraction room where a scanner drone can be called down.

Survi-fence: Protect a hacked network terminus as it forcibly expells the ship's cargo (rewards) and keep enemies distracted.
-Loss of the network terminus will result in more ordinary rewards. Network terminus cannot be destroyed proper, but if enemies hack it for long enough, you'll need to hack back in (resets rotations and loss of bonus resources if terminus is hacked by enemies).
-Tilesets: Survival areas and a classic Spy room.

Extermi-cort: Escort the disguised explosive to the enemy base and kill all witnesses.
-Loss of the payload will kill everyone and deem the mission a complete failure. Death of enough enemies will deem the mission a success, allowing for premature extraction.
-Tilesets: Hijack tile (objective moves in reverse direction).

The best thing about this, is that all DE really has to do is code in how the two mission types would affect eachother, sort of their spawn arrangements so the missions aren't split like a Grineer-sided Invasion tileset is (with those drop pods), and wedge on the +4 more player spaces.

Edited February 17, 2018 by Koldraxon-732
It can be done.

[(PSN)CrimsonAxure]

38 minutes ago, Koldraxon-732 said:

-Special 8-player bossfights, like two Razorbacks? Six Raptors? Eight Ambulas 2.0s?

Eight Eidolons all at the same time?

[Lemon]

2 hours ago, polarity said:

-- Just adding 4 more players to existing missions would increase the number of hosts whose computers can't handle that kind of output, nevermind adding more spawns to keep up with the higher kill-rate of a larger group. --

I understand this, my suggestion is to merely add in the option for 8 player missions. I don't want to gate loot or anything behind 8 player missions, hell i would even be fine with lower resource/loot rates. I just want to be able to play with all of my friends without the group being split up or a person being left out.

 

2 hours ago, Koldraxon-732 said:

-- Here's an idea:
-Specific, 8-player bounties in the Plains (Excavation, Defense, Extermination). --

Hell yeah, and they did say they might add in 8 player support for plains at one point. I just want to see 8 player missions reach outside of the plain too though, not just be stuck in one location/tile like it has been with trials.

[polarity]

It could very easily work if DE bothered to improve their matchmaking, and do a proper test of a player's PC's ability to host the game.

I've complained repeatedly about how relying on a ping test alone is utterly insufficient as a way to determine that, and that DE should really be looking at doing an upload bandwidth test every time a player's IP changes significantly (suggesting a change of ISP),  then having clients report on the quality of connection at the end of games, in particular if there is packet loss happening, or whether the host disconnected, and then giving every host a rating as to how good and how consistent their connection is, that gets modified continually to more accurately reflect changes due to time of day (they're on an oversubscribed ISP), Windows Update going off in the background, solar flares, frequent power cuts, etc.  What you want is a system that's quick to change when a connection gets worse, and is slower to recover to its previous level.

Once you have those values, then the game can do a better job of selecting who is most likely to provide the best hosting experience for all the players in a group, and whether their computer is even capable of hosting more than 4.

We've already got people asking for an ability to set themselves as 'always host' or 'never host', because they either have a bad or good connection, but without the steps I set out above, something like that could be abused, with people setting 'always host' and then opening a ton of tabs in their browser with youtube videos playing in them.  Sure, you could still do that with better matchmaking, but it would tank your hosting rating, and you'd end up playing alone if you left 'always host' turned on, when the game considers you unsuitable.

Edited February 17, 2018 by polarity

[Cloud]

5 hours ago, Lemon said:

WIth the removal of raids i feel like this is relevant now more than ever, warframe is an mmo with small clans being around 10 players yet 8 player missions have only been delegated to 1-2 "raids" which are about to be removed. I understand that not everyone might be able to host an 8 player session, but those of us who can and have bigger groups should be able to opt in for an 8 player version of common mission types.

Missions that could work with 8 man squads; Defection, Survival, Defense(multiple simultaneous defense pods), Interception(with more points and bigger maps), Excavation(Higher excavator spawn rate, twice the requirement for rewards)

These are just some half-baked ideas, they would need to be tweaked to fit DE's design. I know that 8 man missions will return further down the line but i really wish we could just have 8 man alternatives to common missions, for when you want to play with more than just 4 people. And also having a little variety instead of just a single mission for 8 players to do would be the best.

At the moment, an huge no. If in future they are hosted on servers and properly balanced, yes.